Opinion The ultimate best 22 thread 2013

[Quicky]

Alright folks,

While the dust of trade week is still circling around our heads and is yet to settle, I think there are a few out there (myself included) that would like to throw out their opinions on the ultimate best 22 for Collingwood in 2013!

There is still plenty to settle and we havn't seen the full wash up but it is early enough, and enough has transpired to have some decent discussion.

So how do you see us lining up in 2013? We have acquired Lynch, Young and now Russell. All fringe 22 players from competiting sides which fill holes that most of us have identified throughout the season.

Do they all fit in? Are they depth for the VFL side? How will it all play out?

FWIW this is my take:

FB: ------O'Brien------Keeffe-------Toovey-------
HB: ------Shaw--------Reid--------Russell-------

C: -------Swan-------Beams--------Thomas------
Fol: ------Jolly---------Ball---------Pendles------

HF: ------Didak--------Lynch--------Rusty-------
FF: -----Krakouer------Cloke--------Macaffer-----

Int: Young, Johnson, Maxwell, Fasolo

Extended squad: Brown, Goldsack, Blair, Seedsman, Paine, Ceglar

Some thoughts:

I think the dynamic of our defense will see Brown in as much as he is out. All dependant on the necessity for three talls. I picked Keeffe because he is quality and showed some proficiency in something we lacked down back this season, footskills.

I think the we have lacked some composure moving out of defense in the last year and this initiated the trade for Russell. I have him starting there, but the onus is on him to keep his position in the 22, there is stiff competition.

Our midfield looks strong with Ball back and in the knowledge of what Beams can do. Balls return means we can push Swan into a number of utility type positions. I have him on a wing. He could just as easily see time up forward as a half back. Exciting times!

Lynch forward ruck gives us the flexibility to play an extra small when with Dawes we would be second guessing bringing in a tall every other week.

I chose Macaffer as I am a big fan. Could just as easily be Goldsack and perhaps rightly so. Paine also a consideration as a third tall.

The combo of Johnson, Young and Russell gives us much more outside ability. Young in particular will be a huge threat kicking to a dominant contested marking forward in Cloke.

Fasolo vs Blair? We have greater depth and I see these two fighting off as forwards/part time mids. Who wins the battle royale? I think both are worthy options.

I like Rusty up forward. A natural crumber. Intuitive. With Krakouer and Rusty we have some really dangerous crumbers back there which makes us dangerous.

Maxwell in a defensive utility role. He may be tagging. He may be going back but he'll be around with his leadership. But dependant on matchups.

Didak? Some raised eyebrows no doubt. The subject of much debate and derision. I have faith. Go back and watch his regular season game vs Sydney. His touches on the ball were invalueable. You just can't replace that quality and we have no one to do so on our list currently. Well worth the risk and the faith!

Debate! Pull apart! Hell tear apart! But have fun day dreaming about how awesome this side is going to be next year!

 

[legendstatus]

So Russell walks straight into our best 22 and Caffer gets a game..... Off to a bad start mate....

 

[Knightmare]

For 2013 I'd probably have Brown ahead of Keeffe.

Long term I'm very much pro Keeffe and see him as our clear long term FB, but with his injury and need to recover I expect Brown should edge him out of our best 22 for most of next year.

Russell I'm not so sure starts the year in our best side but that said I expect he would be in the mix. Caff and Johnson I also wouldn't have in my best 22.

With Young I don't see where Johnson fits in our best side next year. Still a good player but I think he just moves into that depth category next season - though I don't see him going down without a fight.

Caff while I know you are his biggest fan I don't yet have in my best 22. Had that excellent 2010 season where he was probably somewhere around 15 on our list and he should be in the mix for selection next season but with the way Goldsack played I'm not sure I can see him displacing him if he has another strong season with Paine that other option who if he has a strong offseason and improves his endurance could go past both.

One who I know many will disagree on, I agree with you on. That is Didak. He showed me enough this season that when healthy he can really be an important player for us with his footskills and even if he is a sub at times I still have him in my best side.

Right now I have (Round 1):
B: Harry O'Brien Nathan Brown Alan Toovey
HB: Heath Shaw Ben Reid Nick Maxwell
CEN: Clinton Young Scott Pendlebury Steele Sidebottom
HF: Alex Fasolo Travis Cloke Dayne Beams
F: Jackson Paine Quinten Lynch Andrew Krakouer
FOLL: Darren Jolly Luke Ball Dane Swan
BENCH: Dale Thomas Jamie Elliott Jarryd Blair
Sub: Alan Didak
EMG: Lachlan Keeffe Tyson Goldsack Ben Johnson

 

[THATSGOLD]

Alright folks,

While the dust of trade week is still circling around our heads and is yet to settle, I think there are a few out there (myself included) that would like to throw out their opinions on the ultimate best 22 for Collingwood in 2013!

There is still plenty to settle and we havn't seen the full wash up but it is early enough, and enough has transpired to have some decent discussion.

So how do you see us lining up in 2013? We have acquired Lynch, Young and now Russell. All fringe 22 players from competiting sides which fill holes that most of us have identified throughout the season.

Do they all fit in? Are they depth for the VFL side? How will it all play out?

FWIW this is my take:

FB: ------O'Brien------Keeffe-------Toovey-------
HB: ------Shaw--------Reid--------Russell-------

C: -------Swan-------Beams--------Thomas------
Fol: ------Jolly---------Ball---------Pendles------

HF: ------Didak--------Lynch--------Rusty-------
FF: -----Krakouer------Cloke--------Macaffer-----

Int: Young, Johnson, Maxwell, Fasolo

Extended squad: Brown, Goldsack, Blair, Seedsman, Paine, Ceglar

Some thoughts:

I think the dynamic of our defense will see Brown in as much as he is out. All dependant on the necessity for three talls. I picked Keeffe because he is quality and showed some proficiency in something we lacked down back this season, footskills.

I think the we have lacked some composure moving out of defense in the last year and this initiated the trade for Russell. I have him starting there, but the onus is on him to keep his position in the 22, there is stiff competition.

Our midfield looks strong with Ball back and in the knowledge of what Beams can do. Balls return means we can push Swan into a number of utility type positions. I have him on a wing. He could just as easily see time up forward as a half back. Exciting times!

Lynch forward ruck gives us the flexibility to play an extra small when with Dawes we would be second guessing bringing in a tall every other week.

I chose Macaffer as I am a big fan. Could just as easily be Goldsack and perhaps rightly so. Paine also a consideration as a third tall.

The combo of Johnson, Young and Russell gives us much more outside ability. Young in particular will be a huge threat kicking to a dominant contested marking forward in Cloke.

Fasolo vs Blair? We have greater depth and I see these two fighting off as forwards/part time mids. Who wins the battle royale? I think both are worthy options.

I like Rusty up forward. A natural crumber. Intuitive. With Krakouer and Rusty we have some really dangerous crumbers back there which makes us dangerous.

Maxwell in a defensive utility role. He may be tagging. He may be going back but he'll be around with his leadership. But dependant on matchups.

Didak? Some raised eyebrows no doubt. The subject of much debate and derision. I have faith. Go back and watch his regular season game vs Sydney. His touches on the ball were invalueable. You just can't replace that quality and we have no one to do so on our list currently. Well worth the risk and the faith!

Debate! Pull apart! Hell tear apart! But have fun day dreaming about how awesome this side is going to be next year!

Over rated Keeffe far too highly. Brown starts over him every day of the week. Also Didak is a battler these days, plenty have gone past him in the last two years.

 

[Robroy22]

Ok...well just out of fun I'll have a go, but I want to say we should wait to see what we have in a few weeks yet.

B.... Fasolo, Keefe, Maxwell

HB.. Russell, Reid, Shaw

C.... Thomas, Ball, Young

HF.. Didak, Cloke, Swan

F.... Krakour, Lynch, Blair

Foll.. Jolly, Pendlebury, Beams

Inter.. Sidebottom, Toovey, Brown,
Sub.... O'Brien

 

[THATSGOLD]

For 2013 I'd probably have Brown ahead of Keeffe.

Long term I'm very much pro Keeffe and see him as our clear long term FB, but with his injury and need to recover I expect Brown should edge him out of our best 22 for most of next year.

Russell I'm not so sure starts the year in our best side but that said I expect he would be in the mix. Caff and Johnson I also wouldn't have in my best 22.

With Young I don't see where Johnson fits in our best side next year. Still a good player but I think he just moves into that depth category next season - though I don't see him going down without a fight.

Caff while I know you are his biggest fan I don't yet have in my best 22. Had that excellent 2010 season where he was probably somewhere around 15 on our list and he should be in the mix for selection next season but with the way Goldsack played I'm not sure I can see him displacing him if he has another strong season with Paine that other option who if he has a strong offseason and improves his endurance could go past both.

One who I know many will disagree on, I agree with you on. That is Didak. He showed me enough this season that when healthy he can really be an important player for us with his footskills and even if he is a sub at times I still have him in my best side.

Right now I have (Round 1):
B: Harry O'Brien Nathan Brown Alan Toovey
HB: Heath Shaw Ben Reid Nick Maxwell
CEN: Clinton Young Scott Pendlebury Steele Sidebottom
HF: Alex Fasolo Travis Cloke Dayne Beams
F: Jackson Paine Quinten Lynch Andrew Krakouer
FOLL: Darren Jolly Luke Ball Dane Swan
BENCH: Dale Thomas Jamie Elliott Jarryd Blair
Sub: Alan Didak
EMG: Lachlan Keeffe Tyson Goldsack Ben Johnson

Team looks nice until the injuries strike.

 

[Shade]

Ok...well just out of fun I'll have a go, but I want to say we should wait to see what we have in a few weeks yet.

B.... Fasolo, Keefe, Maxwell

HB.. Russell, Reid, Shaw

C.... Thomas, Ball, Young

HF.. Didak, Cloke, Swan

F.... Krakour, Lynch, Blair

Foll.. Jolly, Pendlebury, Beams

Inter.. Sidebottom, Toovey, Brown,
Sub.... O'Brien

Why is Fasolo in a back pocket?

 

[Knightmare]

Team looks nice until the injuries strike.

Still so ok 30 man depth. Add those we draft 1st round and we are mostly in good shape depthwise.

Only major weak point is the ruck with Jolly. If he gets injured it won't be a fun season regardless of what we do. Keep/move on Wood. Add a Seaby/Currie/Hannath other state league or delisted ruckman. Just won't be pretty.

Other injuries regardless of position we should be able to cover with a mostly otherwise flexible team with the ability to insert role players when required.

 

[nahnah]

Alright folks,



FWIW this is my take:

FB: ------O'Brien------Keeffe-------Toovey-------
HB: ------Shaw--------Reid--------Russell-------

C: -------Swan-------Beams--------Thomas------
Fol: ------Jolly---------Ball---------Pendles------

HF: ------Didak--------Lynch--------Rusty-------
FF: -----Krakouer------Cloke--------Macaffer-----

Int: Young, Johnson, Maxwell, Fasolo

Extended squad: Brown, Goldsack, Blair, Seedsman, Paine, Ceglar

Mine is quite different to yours:

FB: Tooves Brown Maxwell
HB: O'brien Reid Shaw
C: Thomas Beams Young
Foll: Jolly Ball Pendles
HF: Swan Cloke Fasolo
FF: Krak Lynch Blair
Int: Sack Didak Sidey Russell

Depth: Johnno, Caff, Keefe, Seedsman, Elliott, Marley, Witts

I would have brown in over keefe everyday of the week, caff needs to prove himself in the vfl but agree on giving russell a run in the seniors to begin with. Sack and blair are in the best 22 until form drops imo, benny J will be competing with russell.

Elliott, seedsman and marley are the next generation along with picks 18,19 and 21

 

[Quicky]

Ok...well just out of fun I'll have a go, but I want to say we should wait to see what we have in a few weeks yet.

B.... Fasolo, Keefe, Maxwell

HB.. Russell, Reid, Shaw

C.... Thomas, Ball, Young

HF.. Didak, Cloke, Swan

F.... Krakour, Lynch, Blair

Foll.. Jolly, Pendlebury, Beams

Inter.. Sidebottom, Toovey, Brown,
Sub.... O'Brien

Agreed, it probably is too early, but hey I like talking about it. Worse comes to worse, we update our our best 22's in a couple of weeks to reflect the changes at the club.

I like that line-up, and some interesting food for thought.

It's a bold move putting Fasolo into a back pocket. I have concerns regarding his pace and whether that is too limiting back there. I think it would require plenty of footy smarts to overcome. Otherwise he would be perfect.

Toovey and Maxwell on the bench may be a bit defender heavy but thats probably just on appearance with how the 18 is juggled.

To any nay-sayers, I say what-evs! My opinion is just that, an opinion. I will say it is easy to be an arm-chair critic and to criticise without offerring an alternative. Pick the holes apart for sure but at least offer a reason why? and an alternative?

 

[THATSGOLD]

Still so ok 30 man depth. Add those we draft 1st round and we are mostly in good shape depthwise.

Only major weak point is the ruck with Jolly. If he gets injured it won't be a fun season regardless of what we do. Keep/move on Wood. Add a Seaby/Currie/Hannath other state league or delisted ruckman. Just won't be pretty.

Other injuries regardless of position we should be able to cover with a mostly otherwise flexible team with the ability to insert role players when required.

Would like to see Reid get through a season with an injury. Maybe Elliot too.
Agree losing Jolly or Cloke long term would cause massive headaches. Lynch would battle by himself as the big forward. Paine could come in for a few games but not an extended period. Losing Jolly.. I'd just hate to think what could happen.

 

[tazzawazza]

WHO IS RUSTY?

Didak?

 

[Ketchup]

Obviously the starting round 1 side. (Could change depending on what I know about this years draft and who we draft obv.)
Shaw-Brown-Maxwell
Toovey-Reid-O'brian
Young-Beams-Sidebottom
Thomas-Cloke-Krak
Sack-Lynch-Blair
Foll- Jolly, Pendlebury-Swan
Inter- Caff, Didak, Russell, Faz

 

[Robroy22]

Sorry to the Keeffe family, my profuse apologies.
I like to see young forwards/mids play a defensive role at some stage of their career so that they concentrate on their defensive responsibilities and I just think ( and of course I'm probably wrong...lol) that young Fasolo is at a stage where he could be really beneficial for us as a deliverer out of defence.
I would also like to see a few players pinch hitting as forwards this year ( Heater, Brown, Swan, Pendles....even Reid swapping with Cloke at times)
Once again, my apologies for spelling Keeffe's name wrong, Lachlan it will never happen again!

 

[Quicky]

Mine is quite different to yours:

FB: Tooves Brown Maxwell
HB: O'brien Reid Shaw
C: Thomas Beams Young
Foll: Jolly Ball Pendles
HF: Swan Cloke Fasolo
FF: Krak Lynch Blair
Int: Sack Didak Sidey Russell

Depth: Johnno, Caff, Keefe, Seedsman, Elliott, Marley, Witts

I would have brown in over keefe everyday of the week, caff needs to prove himself in the vfl but agree on giving russell a run in the seniors to begin with. Sack and blair are in the best 22 until form drops imo, benny J will be competing with russell.

Elliott, seedsman and marley are the next generation along with picks 18,19 and 21

Probably not all that different actually.

I think Brown and Keeffe or both are interchangeable and will depend largely on match ups. I picked Keeffe purely on the philosophical recognition that we lacked footskills out of defense and the swap of Keeffe for Brown helps address that without giving up much defensively. Keeffe was fantastic but perhaps the recovery from a knee reco will be limiting?

Sack instead of Caff is understandeable, both worthy third tall options and Caff is my preference.

I like the extra run Johnson provides over Blair but the need for run vs inside/forward is debateable.

I enjoyed the read!

 

[tazzawazza]

My Best 22


B: Jordan Russell Lachlan Keeffee Alan Toovey
HB: Heath Shaw Ben Reid Harry O'Brien
CEN: Dayne Beams Dane Swan Clinton Young
HF: Alex Fasolo Travis Cloke Steele Sidebottom
F: Jackson Paine Quinten Lynch Andrew Krakouer
FOLL: Darren Jolly Luke Ball Scott Pendlebury
BENCH: Dale Thomas Nick Maxwell Brent Macaffer
Sub: Alan Didak
EMG: Nathan Brown Tyson Goldsack Ben Johnson

 

[Quicky]

WHO IS RUSTY?

Didak?

Sidebottom.

On that Russell needs a new nickname. He can't go around as Rusty II.

 

[HeavyPop]

I don't know about our 22, but interesting to see a few people leave Goldsack out of the side. He would be picked ahead of a few players, IMO. Sidebottom, Johnson and Fasolo all come to mind.

Also where do people see Swan next year? His foot skills were very average this season, could he spend more time forward this year? With Ball coming back and Beams becoming our second best mid (IMO), he could be pushed forward a bit because I think he is a bit of a liability with his skills.

 

[Nicco_jj]

What about Sinclair as depth? No one mentioning him...
His kicking still isn't great, but he puts in effort by the trailer load!

 

[Nicco_jj]

Gee we've got good depth next year

 

[hot_pies81]

Here's my attempt:
B: Shaw Brown Toovey
HB: O'Brien Reid Maxwell
C: Beams Swan Young
HF: Goldsack Cloke Sidebottom
F: Fasolo Lynch Krakouer
Foll: Jolly Ball Pendlebury
Int: Blair Thomas McCaffer
Sub: Russell

Emerg: Didak, Keeffe, Elliott, Seedsman, Sinclair, Johnson

IMO Daisy has lost his mojo since his pre game kicking partner left the club. He's not nearly as consistent with as much impact as previous years. Didak, as much as I love him, seems to have lost his drive. I want him to be in the 22, but he will have to show something special in pre-season/NAB cup to get there. For mine, Keeffe is the most unlucky, and would be my first choice if any of the KPP (forward or back) were injured.

 

[nahnah]

What about Sinclair as depth? No one mentioning him...
His kicking still isn't great, but he puts in effort by the trailer load!

I don't see him anywhere near our best 22, id package him with clarke for a player or pick pronto.

Probably not all that different actually.

I think Brown and Keeffe or both are interchangeable and will depend largely on match ups. I picked Keeffe purely on the philosophical recognition that we lacked footskills out of defense and the swap of Keeffe for Brown helps address that without giving up much defensively. Keeffe was fantastic but perhaps the recovery from a knee reco will be limiting?

Sack instead of Caff is understandeable, both worthy third tall options and Caff is my preference.

I like the extra run Johnson provides over Blair but the need for run vs inside/forward is debateable.

I enjoyed the read!

I'd question keeffes kicking over browns, i think blair is the answer to our small forward problem. With krak, dids and blair all buzzing around will be very dangerous... i can see why you may want sidebottom up there but i think ball will directly replace blair in the midfield.

 

[Frankie23]

B:Maxwell (C) - Keefe - Toovey
HB:Shaw - Reid - O'Brien
C:Sidebottom - Beams - Young
HF:Thomas - Cloke - Swan
F:Fasolo - Lynch - Goldsack
Foll:Jolly - Pendlebury (VC) - Ball
Int:Blair - Krakouer - Caf
Sub: Didak

Depth

Backs - Russell, N.Brown, Williams
Mids - Seedsman, B.Johnson (feel gutted leaving him out) Thomas
Fwd - Paine, Elliot, Sinclair

Depth is outstanding, however this is with no injuries. Also add the 3 high draft picks and blotters like Gault and I list is looking very good. The last position on the bench is between Paine/Caf, we need that 3rd marking option and hopeful Caf will provide that (Paine did his shoulder,expecting a late start to pre-season). Also Keefe>Brown going on 2012 output.

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

I think Harry O will struggle big time next year. If Russell does well with his kicking, Harry will be in massive strife.

B- N.Maxwell, N.Brown, A.Toovey
HB- H.Shaw, B.Reid, J.Russell
C- D.Beams S.Pendlebury, D.Thomas
HF- S.Sidebottom, T.Cloke, A.Fasolo
F- A.Krakouer, Q.Lynch,T.Goldsack
FOL- D.Jolly, L.Ball, D.Swan
Int- J.Blair, B.Johnson, C.Young
Sub- A.Didak
Next in line- H.Obrien, Keefe, MaCaffer, Elliot, Sinclair, M.Clarke, J.Paine, J.Witts and Seedsman.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

So Russell walks straight into our best 22 and Caffer gets a game..... Off to a bad start mate....

Maybe it's not his best side. Maybe he was offering up an off season discussion point?