Thornton - Not that bad

[gbatman]

All the Thornton bagging is getting a bit old. Let's discuss him here.

Thornton has had some floggings recently playing at full back. If you ever notice Thornton or Waite playing key position we are in trouble! Thornton is not that bad, he has been incorrectly used and played out of position. He is a forward packet/flanker and a very good one IMO. He is not a full back. Even Judd would look terribly if played at full back.

Unfortunatly Jamison is not being played at full back because his shoulder appears to be no good.

 

[Doza]

Wallsy is an idiot. No way Thornton is in our bottom six. People need to pay closer attention to some of the things he does. Is often smart and courageous. Leads the league in marks from opposition kicks.

 

[gbatman]

Walls' article made some very good points and did list our passengers except Thornton. He did not belong on that list.

 

[Marc Shmurf 3]

People Wallsy is just squaring the ledger... There has been a fair bit of pretty stuff written about us all year... Wallsy puts it the way it is to stem the flow...

Agreed though that Thornton is FAR TOO MUCH MALIGNED around this place and throughout AFL circles... no one will mention when he went back with the flight of the ball in the last quarter last week, but if he misses the target by foot, he is our worst player...

He has consistantly been one of our best defenders for the last 5-6 years... He leads the competition for marks from opposition kicks... This is either for 2 reasons...
1, he is playing off his man and not being defensive enough, or
2 becuase he is smart enough to know when to run over and help out his team mate and give him a chop out or take the mark. It could be that he is just a very good reader of the ball in flight as well...

Credit where it is due, the man has been a very good servent of our club for a long time now... Sure he makes the odd mistake and brain explosions, but the good things he does far far far outweigh the bad things...

 

[Blue since 72]

Agreed, Thornton shouldn't have been listed. Certainly a required player down back. Of the players in the team at the moment the following should be looking over their shoulder with regard to a longer term spot in the team:

In no particular order

Cloke (refer other thread for the reasons)
Wiggo (kicking to other players and at goal)
Russell (kicking to other players)
Simpson kicking to other players)
Houla (hardness at the contest, chasing)

Ratts didn't ask the recruiters last draft to drafts kids who can kick for no reason. Far too important a skill in todays game to be average or worse at.

 

[Malifice]

Walls' article made some very good points and did list our passengers except Thornton. He did not belong on that list.

Agreed.

 

[pumped]

Think he is a very skilled player. Just gets a frustrating at times when he loses composure. Would be much happier if he took the cheap niggles out of his game and left his hardness for the contests. He seems to lose concentration due to this and in these moments can execute some horrible turnovers. When focassed he seems to have everything you could want.

 

[blue gunslinger]

His decision making this year has not been as good. He once hid behind the fact he was playing against bigger opponents and their best fwds. he is no longer our only backman and now must work as part of a developing unit. He has serviced us well but must now step up as the team is stepping up around him.

 

[Bluebear]

All the Thornton bagging is getting a bit old. Let's discuss him here.

Thornton has had some floggings recently playing at full back. If you ever notice Thornton or Waite playing key position we are in trouble! Thornton is not that bad, he has been incorrectly used and played out of position. He is a forward packet/flanker and a very good one IMO. He is not a full back. Even Judd would look terribly if played at full back.

Unfortunatly Jamison is not being played at full back because his shoulder appears to be no good.

Do you reckon you could substitute the name Cloke for Thornton, sub fullback for ruck, and re-read this regarding the past 12 months?

 

[celtic_pride]

Call me old-fashioned, but I rate/rank defenders based upn their ability to stop goals.

In the Hun today, I notice Bret Thornton has conceded 14 goals this year (and that is being conservative IMHO) which is equal to 3rd worst in the AFL ..

Stats often can be mis-leading, but not in this instance.

 

[ratten7]

He's OK as long as he is playing on the 3rd tall. His kicking Disposal isn't the greatest either. But he is ok otherwise.

 

[gbatman]

Cloke can't play in any position Bear, IMO. That's my opinon, the thought of him rucking against Sandilands makes me shudder. Any way Thornton has been played out of position, if he was played in the right position he would be going well. It's easy to make a good player look bad by playing him out of position.

We need to get Jamison's shoulders fixed (properly like Walkers), and give Hartlett and Austin a chance. We need to get Thornton as far away from playing full back as possible!

 

[celtic_pride]

Cloke can't play in any position Bear, IMO. That's my opinon, the thought of him rucking against Sandilands makes me shudder. Any way Thornton has been played out of position, if he was played in the right position he would be going well. It's easy to make a good player look bad by playing him out of position.

We need to get Jamison's shoulders fixed (properly like Walkers), and give Hartlett and Austin a chance. We need to get Thornton as far away from playing full back as possible!

I am convinced we should be playing O'Hailpin down back, and you are right, move Thornton further up the ground, maybe place him on the wing ..

 

[blue gunslinger]

To what end? might cofuse him on what his role is.

 

[gbatman]

I am convinced we should be playing O'Hailpin down back, and you are right, move Thornton further up the ground, maybe place him on the wing ..

Dunno if he has the pace to play on the wing, he is at his best when getting off his opponent and covering the space in front of the key forwards. He's brave, has good hands and is willing to get in front of big blokes and go for his marks.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Call me old-fashioned, but I rate/rank defenders based upn their ability to stop goals.

In the Hun today, I notice Bret Thornton has conceded 14 goals this year (and that is being conservative IMHO) which is equal to 3rd worst in the AFL ..

Stats often can be mis-leading, but not in this instance.

But 7-8 were in one game when mismatched against the leading goalkicker. Take that way and the stats read different. As you said, stats are misleading.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Is that going to be his legacy - was always mismatched?
I grant it maybe true but where I have seen him go backwards this year is he does not seem to be playing with the focus, determination and hunger he has displayed before. He appears disinterested which leads to poor decision making and poor disposal. Might just be my interpritation.

 

[BlueFeaver]

Lets just cut to the bone and really look at Thronton:

Skill: Very good
Decision making: Good - Average
Mental toughness: Average
Speed: Average
Strength: Very average

Thornton ticks a lot of boxes, but I feel he is being left in the wake of the development of players around him.

Jamo = ticks every box, but at a higher level than Thornton....and getting better.

Waite = absolute gun, versatile and is now the leader down back, something Thornton has failed to achieve even though he is the most experienced.

Bower = developing into a gun and is ticking all the same boxes but at a higher level than Thornton.

This is without mentioning other developing likely types on our list that will begin to really place some pressure on his spot.

Thornton will struggle to find a spot as time goes on, his strength already is being eclipsed by Jamo and Waite and will be over taken by Bower very soon. He does not have the speed to be a line breaking rebounding defender nor the mental fortitude to be the "quarter back" play maker......so where does he fit.

The point being I think Walls was suggesting Thornton was in the bottom 6 due to the comparison to other players in his area of the team structure, while he may not be in the bottom 6 in comparitive terms across the whole team, he is in compared to our other defensive players.......and after all this is where he plays.

The only option I see for him is.......could he go forward?

 

[The Coach]

I don't care who goes forward as long as the MC address the problem. We are trying Yarran this week (maybe Austin) but the fact remains that Fev and Eddie are the only two you would pencil in immediately each week.
Now someone get us back on topic

 

[BlueFeaver]

By forward to you mean north?
Like 2000kms. north?

Thornton won't be going forward.
He is our third defender and if we do get an Austin coming on then the back door may start to open.
For now: We need him

I agree we need him at times at the moment...............but for how long is the key question?

At present we have 4 guys in our back line who are quite tall.

Jamo 193cm
Waite 194-5cm
Bower 193cm
Thornton 192cm

IMO Thornton is the 4th in line due to strength, speed and mental application, that means he will need to play on those 186-190cm forward flankers who have plenty of speed and will run him up the ground and all over.........will he be able to handle that?

I think what we will see is Bower will take that role I mention above and we will see Austin work his way in over the coming season.

Just an opinion.

I also meant Thornton to possibly move forward onto a HFF in a Ryan O'keefe type roll...............it may prolong his time in the team.