Rumour Three Way Ablett Deal

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Danger was uncontracted as well. I know he was Restricted and Adelaide decided to dog him by claiming to match his offer, but watch this space.

How harsh of Adelaide to "dog" Dangerfield by abiding by the free agency rules. You know, the rules that were signed off by the AFL Players Association. The same AFLPA that Dangerfield has been a board member of since 2014.

You're right. Adelaide should have allowed Dangerfield to move to Geelong as though he was an Unrestricted Free Agent, despite him not actually being one.

Dangerfield and this situation are completely different situations. Dangerfield was a RFA wanted by his existing club (and desperately wanted by Geelong).

This other scenario you've proposed has an UFA in Menzel not being offered a contract by his existing club supposedly going to a club in Adelaide that already has 4 good tall forwards.

Menzel is predominately a marking third tall that, unfortunately, due to multiple knee reconstructions, has limited agility and is unable to provide a heap of defensive pressure. So unless McGovern leaves Adelaide there is nowhere for Daniel Menzel to fit in the Crows forward line (and even then it is debatable as to whether you can play all of Walker, Jenkins, Lynch and Menzel in the same forward line). Given that, the Crows aren't going to be offering the world for him.

Then you've got the fact that Charlie Cameron is contracted to the Crows for 2018. So the Crows aren't going to do a deal that sees them trade Charlie Cameron for a bag of chips. Let alone a deal that allows a rival for the flag gain the best player of his generation in exchange for an UFC that they simply could have got for nothing anyway.

And that's before we even get to the scenario that GC would happily let Ablett go in exchange for Charlie Cameron who, on current form would probably be worth a second round pick. GC aren't going to let Ablett go to Geelong for a second round pick, so why would they let him go to Geelong in exchange for Charlie Cameron.

This scenario has more plot holes than your average episode of Lost!

 

[Run n Spread]

Free agent m8.

Can still be traded if he consented to it as technically player contracts run out on October 31st.

Didn't that happen with Dangerfield? Even thou he was a FA wasn't a trade of some sort offered.

So GC lose Gaz get Cameron
Geelong lose Menzel get Gaz
Crows lose Cameron get Menzel

Not bad. I reckon Crows neutral/win if Menzel holds up, GC win- face it Gaz doesn't want to be there, Geelong - personally wouldn't do it. Gaz maybe has 1 great year left if that and you are putting all your eggs in 1 basket for another tilt 2018 after this years.

That fails club could slip with an absent Lonergan and Mackie and ageing Selwood, Taylor and Hawkins.

Would at least wait and see how finals play.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Can still be traded if he consented to it as technically player contracts run out on October 31st.

Didn't that happen with Dangerfield? Even thou he was a FA wasn't a trade of some sort offered.

So GC lose Gaz get Cameron
Geelong lose Menzel get Gaz
Crows lose Cameron get Menzel

Not bad. I reckon Crows neutral/win if Menzel holds up, GC win- face it Gaz doesn't want to be there, Geelong - personally wouldn't do it. Gaz maybe has 1 great year left if that and you are putting all your eggs in 1 basket for another tilt 2018 after this years.

That fails club could slip with an absent Lonergan and Mackie and ageing Selwood, Taylor and Hawkins.

Would at least wait and see how finals play.

Dangerfield was a restricted free agent. So if the Crows matched the Geelong offer then Dangerfield could not just walk to Geelong. He could only get there by trade. Geelong did not put in a FA offer because Adelaide would have matched their bid.

Menzel is an unrestricted free agent. He can tell the Cats he's off to whatever club he chooses and the Cats can't do a think about it.

The only similarity between the two situations is that both potentially generate a pick for the club the player is leaving.

 

[Run n Spread]

Dangerfield was a restricted free agent. So if the Crows matched the Geelong offer then Dangerfield could not just walk to Geelong. He could only get there by trade. Geelong did not put in a FA offer because Adelaide would have matched their bid.

Menzel is an unrestricted free agent. He can tell the Cats he's off to whatever club he chooses and the Cats can't do a think about it.

The only similarity between the two situations is that both potentially generate a pick for the club the player is leaving.

I know that my question is if he wanted to negotiate in good faith and all parties agreed could a trade still be done? I'm pretty sure it could. But in essence you are right if Menzel is a UFA. Crows may as well not trade and get something else for Cameron. (I assume he is not a FA).

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

I know that my question is if he wanted to negotiate in good faith and all parties agreed could a trade still be done? I'm pretty sure it could. But in essence you are right if Menzel is a UFA. Crows may as well not trade and get something else for Cameron. (I assume he is not a FA).

Cameron is not a FA (and is contracted to the Crows for 2018).

Honestly, even if Menzel wasn't a UFA Geelong wouldn't get much more for Menzel him anyway. As a trade he's probably worth a second round pick. As a free agent he's probably a 3rd round pick (I don't think he'll get a long enough deal or enough money to make him a 2nd round pick, due to his knee history).

 

[Run n Spread]

Cameron is not a FA (and is contracted to the Crows for 2018).
.

Didn't know that. In which case Crows shouldn't touch this. Try grabbing Menzel as a FA play hard ball with Cameron and try and get something for Lever and McGovern. Better actually trying to keep Cameron so you don't lose all 3 in 1 hit.

 

[hk89]

I have an alternative:

Adelaide give up Cameron
Freo give up Uebergang
Tigers give up Nankervis
Sydney give up Tippett

Those four are the equivalent of Ablett.

 

[javaguice]

I heard something similar yet slightly different

 

[Crowbots are dead]

Even if this deal could be done ( ignoring free agent) I don't think Menzel is high on our list of priorities . Who is he playing instead of?

 

[1970crow]

This is a rumours board. Not an uncontested facts board. My sources say this has been on the table at some stage, not that it's a deadest certainty.

Danger was uncontracted as well. I know he was Restricted and Adelaide decided to dog him by claiming to match his offer, but watch this space.

Have you ever wondered why Geelong didn't actually lodge an offer? I suppose young Selwood wouldn't be too happy to find out the Danger is on $1.2m per year. Oh, they were told that Adelaide would match, so decided to trade without even trying? Sure, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Overhang]

Have you ever wondered why Geelong didn't actually lodge an offer? I suppose young Selwood wouldn't be too happy to find out the Danger is on $1.2m per year. Oh, they were told that Adelaide would match, so decided to trade without even trying? Sure, that makes a lot of sense.

The talk behind closed doors was probably quite amicable, Adelaide probably told Geelong they have full intentions to match. Once Danger was happy with the offer Geelong had put forward he may well have disclosed to Geelong what Adelaide had offered him, at that point Geelong probably knew they couldn't outbid the Crows and skipped straight to a trade. I mean you're probably right as well and Danger might be getting paid more than disclosed and the Cats didn't want this getting out to their other players.

 

[Scotland]

Why would Geelong give up a guy who is 26 for a guy who is 33 and about to retire?

 

[GcSunsfan]

Why would Geelong give up a guy who is 26 for a guy who is 33 and about to retire?

Because Geelong's premiership window is open now and getting Ablett would be the cream on top. Ablett is still a top 5 mid in the comp, he can also go forward and kick 50+ with Dangerfield and Selwood giving him silver service

 

[Sttew]

Menzel is an unrestricted free agent.
Cameron wants to go to Brisbane.
Ablett is acting like a tool.

Subliminal message - "Unrestricted Brisbane tool"

 

[Joey longshadow]

Menzel is an unrestricted free agent.
Cameron wants to go to Brisbane.
Ablett is acting like a tool.

Well....you certainly pissed all over that

 

[Power Raid]

Could be a decent trade but can't see why adelaide would do it

 

[FR0GGY]

Who's the lead in the centipede?

Has to be the menz, he wouldn't tackle anyone

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Love a three way

Normally pay double for that kind of action.

 

[Farm Boy]

Why would Geelong give up a guy who is 26 for a guy who is 33 and about to retire?

There is a lot of uncertainty around that proposed trade. Ablett jr could play out a full year next year and go on to play more football. Or he could continue his soft tissue injuries. Whereas Menzel could come out and do another knee. In that case you would be kicking yourself passing up Ablett jr. Or, Menzel could fulfill his talent and become a star player. It is an unusual situation for a team to be in. But I would pull the trigger on that trade. I think Ablett jr is too good to pass up. If ever you were going to trade a 26 year old for a 33 year old you would do so with Menzel (repeat knee injury history) for Ablett (gun player - slight injury concern but should be ok).

 

[Mningasimisonda]

Why would Geelong give up a guy who is 26 for a guy who is 33 and about to retire?

True. In the scheme of things it seems pointless. Geelong have a decent midfield with some good younger players coming through, but are short on good forwards especially Menzel type players. I think they'd prefer to work out a new contract than use him as trade bait.

Ablett isn't 100% either and probably only has one season in him.

 

[Danger!Selwood]

Geelong cannot do anything with Menzel. It's a case of Menzel wanting a secure 3 or 4 year deal, and Geelong knowing they cant give him that. If he can get it elsewhere then good on him. He's done a lot of work himself to get back to playing good footy, and he (as would all the clubs) would know he's one knee injury away from never playing again.

Here's what will happen in my opinion.

Motlop and Menzel will both end up at Port.
Hartlett will be at Gold Coast
Ablett will be at Geelong.

There will also be a few picks changing hands and Geelong paying someone's salary somewhere.

 

[Danger!Selwood]

It'll be interesting how the media portrays Ablett wanting to go home to Geelong - Carlton were lauded for holding onto and demanding lots of compensation for Gibbs request to head to Adelaide

Will Gold Coast be portrayed similarly? Or should they just let him go home because, you know, Geelong

I don't understand all the hate. Collingwood were copping abuse a few years back for not allowing Dayne Beams to get to Brisbane for family reasons, now Ablett is in the same boat people are having a dig at Ablett.

He cant be expected to foresee family issues arising 18 months before they happen can he?

You hear all the rubbish with people having a dig at his leadership and so on, and yet I haven't heard anyone publicly come out and say that was the case. How people can blame him over some of the flogs they've had there (Karmichael Hunt, Harley Bennell, Charlie Dixon, Campbell Brown) is unbelievable. In an elite sporting environment I would of thought someone who trains hard and eats well would be a better example than a drug taking, team mate punching moron?

 

[JackFlash]

I don't understand all the hate. Collingwood were copping abuse a few years back for not allowing Dayne Beams to get to Brisbane for family reasons, now Ablett is in the same boat people are having a dig at Ablett.

He cant be expected to foresee family issues arising 18 months before they happen can he?

You hear all the rubbish with people having a dig at his leadership and so on, and yet I haven't heard anyone publicly come out and say that was the case. How people can blame him over some of the flogs they've had there (Karmichael Hunt, Harley Bennell, Charlie Dixon, Campbell Brown) is unbelievable. In an elite sporting environment I would of thought someone who trains hard and eats well would be a better example than a drug taking, team mate punching moron?

Beams going to Brisbane was ultimately no threat, so fans didn't really care. Collingwood wanted to keep their star player, but ultimately personal reasons won out. I doubt Magpie fans boo Beams when he plays against them? Ablett, despite turning 34 years of age next season is considered a Premiership "difference" playing for a good team. He won the Suns B&F after just 14 games, which tells you more about the Suns recruiting than anything else. Ablett is an on field threat so opposition fans go into meltdown because an Ablett return to Geelong even for just two years keeps them alive for another Flag! Ablett at the Suns is a non issue for fans, playing for a good team changes the whole thing! Thus the vitriol!

 

[Countrypie]

Beams going to Brisbane was ultimately no threat, so fans didn't really care. Collingwood wanted to keep their star player, but ultimately personal reasons won out. I doubt Magpie fans boo Beams when he plays against them? Ablett, despite turning 34 years of age next season is considered a Premiership "difference" playing for a good team. He won the Suns B&F after just 14 games, which tells you more about the Suns recruiting than anything else. Ablett is an on field threat so opposition fans go into meltdown because an Ablett return to Geelong even for just two years keeps them alive for another Flag! Ablett at the Suns is a non issue for fans, playing for a good team changes the whole thing! Thus the vitriol!

Then again, maybe they think this was the plan all along ....and are calling BS.

Personally I hope he gets back to Geelong and breaks down in the first game, come backs Rd 5 lasts until Rd 7 and then breaks down again, gets back up at around Rd 14 and breaks down again. At least that way I'd think his behaviour this year was genuine.

As it is, I think he's putting new mening to words like precious.

As for Geelong being in the premiership window, I think we might find out this weekend where they sit and a few experts might be surprised at the result.

 

[JackFlash]

Then again, maybe they think this was the plan all along ....and are calling BS.

Personally I hope he gets back to Geelong and breaks down in the first game, come backs Rd 5 lasts until Rd 7 and then breaks down again, gets back up at around Rd 14 and breaks down again. At least that way I'd think his behaviour this year was genuine.

As it is, I think he's putting new mening to words like precious.

As for Geelong being in the premiership window, I think we might find out this weekend where they sit and a few experts might be surprised at the result.

Call me a cynic and i've been called worse, my bet is Ablett's soft tissue injuries will make a miraculous recovery and he'll play 20 games, missing two or three as "managed". This week's finals will be determined by conditions, the forecast for Friday night is rain and hail. It looks like being the worse night for football seen all year unfortunately. Fingers crossed they get the forecast wrong, this is Melbourne after all!