tiges salary cap cheating allegations

[Beloved]

Aah, so it's a massive deal when Fevola pisses on a bar, but nothing when Johnson pisses on a cop shop.

Now, there's sh*t kicked up left, right and centre when we 'cheat' the salary cap, but when it's Richmond, no-one does anything.

Humerous.

 

[Bluebear]

I know nothing of this and am not about to get all outraged just yet, however Carlton's 2002 penalties were for a one year payout to O'Reilly and promised payments to SOS and Braddles, that were never paid. An agreement to circumvent the cap is just as bad as actually paying the money apparently.

Just thought it pertinent that I post this, so that our supporters can tell for themselves the difference between the Tiges and us.

Note the comments about prior breaches and the suspended sentence, and also the length of the cover up.

Tiges should get hammered if guilty, but it won't be to the same extent IMO.

Statement by AFL chief executive Wayne Jackson
1:24:04 AM Sat 23 November, 2002
Wayne Jackson
Australian Football League


As you know, the AFL Commission has met this evening to consider four charges laid by the AFL investigations manager against the Carlton Football Club for breaches of the total player payments provisions.

The Commission has considered all the information presented by the AFL investigations manager.

The charges involved payments made to four players for services provided during the 2000 and 2001 seasons.

The evidence presented tonight proved to the Commission beyond a doubt that the charges are correct in the case of three players and, in fact, the Carlton Football Club pleaded guilty to three of the charges. The sanctions apply to the three charges to which Carlton pleaded guilty.

http://ad2.pamedia.com.au/click.ng/...on=island&transactionID=12345678901234567890?​

The charge against a fourth player has been adjourned and is the subject of further investigation by the AFL Investigator.

The Commission has made a decision about sanctions but before I announce that detail, I wanted to outline a number of issues which were considered in making this decision.

Firstly, the nature of one of the breaches revealed a complex and deliberate scheme designed and implemented to hide payments and deceive the AFL.

This involved the use of trusts, confidentiality agreements and payments to third parties. The paper trail was carefully followed by our investigations team.

Secondly, during the investigation period, former board members of the Carlton Football Club refused to cooperate. This of course has made the task more difficult and time consuming.

Finally, as the chairman has pointed out, this is the third breach by Carlton Football Club since 1998 and this latest breach occurred while Carlton was under a suspended sentence of a penalty for a previous incident. That suspended sentence has been triggered by events this evening.

In light of these issues, the Commission has decided on the following sanctions:

* The loss of the priority selection (selection number one) in the 2002 national draft to be held on Sunday, November 24, 2002.

* The loss of selection number 2, the first selection in round one of the 2002 national draft.

* The loss of selection number 31 in round 2 of the 2002 national draft.

* The loss of selection number 34 in round 3 of the 2002 national draft.


(Note: The loss of selection number 31 in round 2 and selection number 34 in round 3 of the 2002 national draft are triggered by the suspended sentence imposed on the Carlton Football Club by the AFL Commission for total player payment breaches in 1998 and determined by the AFL Commission in October, 2000).

* Exclusion from round one of the 2002 pre-season draft to be held on Tuesday, December 17, 2002.

* The loss of the right to participate in round 1 and round 2 of the 2003 national draft.

* Should the Carlton Football Club qualify for the special assistance rule, the club will retain its priority selection in the 2003 national draft.

* The Carlton F.C. will be entitled to participate in the 2003 national draft from round 3.


FINANCIAL SANCTIONS:

* A financial sanction of $930,000 which includes a financial sanction of $57,576 being the amount suspended by the AFL Commission as part of its decision in October, 2000, relating to a breach of the salary cap by Carlton during 1998.

* The $57,576 is payable by December 31, 2002.

* The balance of the financial sanction is payable by December 31, 2003.


NOTE:

1. Carlton will be entitled to participate in the 2002 national draft on Sunday, November 24, from round 4, selection number 45.

2. Carlton will be entitled to participate in the 2003 pre-season draft.

 

[blues4flag]

Just thought it pertinent that I post this, so that our supporters can tell for themselves the difference between the Tiges and us.

Note the comments about prior breaches and the suspended sentence, and also the length of the cover up.

Tiges should get hammered if guilty, but it won't be to the same extent IMO.

Rightfully so. Our penalty was far too excessive, and hopefully the AFL won't curse another team to the level of mediocrity we've had to endure.

 

[one eyed bluey]

Just heard demertieu on SEN radio station about richmond and they will be in the shit if these allegations are true, premiership points and draft picks taken away, not out of the questions says the afl boss....richmond making a press confrence soon...very interesting.....

 

[ozserpico66]

Who's Weaver? Sounds like a rodent.

Unilke most of the know nothing "know it alls" on bigfooty weaver's knowledge and smarts have landed him a role at an AFL club in Perth.

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

The Tigers could be in real strife here.
Richmond are the last club in the world that need this.
They're already in the wilderness.
Brace yourself RFC..... This could hurt big time.

 

[PHX]

Bradley, Silvagni unlikely to receive payments



...there's that word I was looking for, PROMISED!

Key word was "payments"

We didnt pay Holland for nothing as it seems that article is saying.

We said work on this old peoples toes and we'll pay you up for it. A separate legal entity compared to straight out under the table payment promises.

This is still trouble but not as bad I feel.

 

[Bluebear]

Key word was "payments"

We didnt pay Holland for nothing as it seems that article is saying.

We said work on this old peoples toes and we'll pay you up for it. A separate legal entity compared to straight out under the table payment promises.

This is still trouble but not as bad I feel.

I'm sure the AFL will be hoodwinked by $500k worth of toe nails.

 

[Jezza U Beauty]

Key word was "payments"

We didnt pay Holland for nothing as it seems that article is saying.

We said work on this old peoples toes and we'll pay you up for it. A separate legal entity compared to straight out under the table payment promises.

This is still trouble but not as bad I feel.

Nah mate the key issue is setting things up so as to deliberately hide from the AFL anything of value which the Club gives to a player in return for that player's services. Podiatry service-provision contracts qualify under that criterion. And as you should have read above with respect to SOS and Braddles, a promise is against the rules, even if the money/goods/whatever is never even delivered to the player.

Your club should be in a heap of strife.

 

[PHX]

I'm sure the AFL will be hoodwinked by $500k worth of toe nails.

Less when you include property development and the shares and remember its over 3 years.



What I want to know is if this is right why did we pass the audit in 2005.


Jezza U Beauty But the club didnt offer it. Clinton Casey did, invited him to be an employee of him.
Kind of like how Dicky Pratt knows he can employ Juddy to be "environmental spokesman" for Visy.

 

[one eyed bluey]

Less when you include property development and the shares and remember its over 3 years.



What I want to know is if this is right why did we pass the audit in 2005.


Jezza U Beauty But the club didnt offer it. Clinton Casey did, invited him to be an employee of him.
Kind of like how Dicky Pratt knows he can employ Juddy to be "environmental spokesman" for Visy.

The situation is completely different.
The issue for the RFC is that they haven't notified the afl and if caught hiding promises of payments/real estate whatever...(promises of payments or real estate are enough for afl to screw ya) your in deep shit.

However, its all still allegations at this time....

 

[parrot]

Key word was "payments"....

lo. Caught Salary Cap cheating. Now that is Karma. The AFL need to investigate Richmond, as this is likely to be only the tip of the iceberg. The Brown property deals need to be investigated, plus the Johnson deal and a few others. Interesting times ahead.

 

[PHX]

The situation is completely different.
The issue for the RFC is that they haven't notified the afl and if caught hiding promises of payments/real estate whatever...(promises of payments or real estate are enough for afl to screw ya) your in deep shit.

However, its all still allegations at this time....

Well that's why I dont understand how we passed the audit in the first place.

Anyway yeah it's going to take a year or two to be dealt with so it'll be a loooong journey./

 

[PHX]

lo. Caught Salary Cap cheating. Now that is Karma. The AFL need to investigate Richmond, as this is likely to be only the tip of the iceberg. The Brown property deals needs to be investigated, plus the Johnson deal and a few others. Interesting times ahead.

Apart from Holland which we dont know all other property deals were declared in the 2005 audit otherwise we wouldnt have passed.

Brown wouldnt publicly talk about it if he was trying hide it Paro.

The other two you're thinking of are Johnson and Richo.

 

[Bluebear]

Well that's why I dont understand how we passed the audit in the first place.

Anyway yeah it's going to take a year or two to be dealt with so it'll be a loooong journey./

I guess the implication is that it was hidden from the audit.

Probably getting ahead of ourselves, which is why I put up the details of our breach, so whe your details come out we can make a fairer comparison.

 

[parrot]

...Brown wouldnt publicly talk about it if he was trying hide it ...

You can only hope. lol. Same guy made those dodgie deals with Brown BTW. Will be interesting to see what an AFL investigation unearths. Your Clubs cheating could end up costing 2 years of the first 3 rounds of draft picks plus priority picks. Maybe even more. Yep, a long journey. Although the Tiges stuff up their draft picks or trade them away for duds anyway, so the impact at the end of the day will be minimal I guess.

 

[PHX]

You can only hope. lol. Same guy made those dodgie deals with Brown BTW. Will be interesting to see what an AFL investigation unearths. Your Clubs cheating could end up costing 2 years of the first 3 rounds of draft picks plus priority picks. Maybe even more. Yep, a long journey. Although the Tiges stuff up their draft picks or trade them away for duds anyway, so the impact at the end of the day will be minimal I guess.

I'll pay that. That's a funny troll.

 

[Conduct Unbecoming]

Key word was "payments"

We didnt pay Holland for nothing as it seems that article is saying.

We said work on this old peoples toes and we'll pay you up for it. A separate legal entity compared to straight out under the table payment promises.

This is still trouble but not as bad I feel.

Nope, if proven (and Holland must have some documentary eveidence if he has issued a writ), then we are deep in it. Deep in it.

clubs.

 

[BlueYoss]

Key word was "payments"

We didnt pay Holland for nothing as it seems that article is saying.

If the court rules in favour of Holland and orders RFC to come good on those promises then it could be an entirely different story

 

[Brighton_Diggins]

what motivated holland?
Had he been thinking about this for a while..?
Maybe getting some legal counsel sorted?

He was possibly stewing on it...
then he thought 'no stuff 'em... i want my dues'.

trying to get a feel for where the guy might be coming from.

ulterior motive?

 

[itsintheblood]

IITB and some other tiger ferals on the main board are insisting they will be in no strife at all because payment was NOT made. But can someone confirm for me, didn't we get punished for payments to SOS, Braddles and Fraser Brown for payments there were promised but not actually payed??

If so, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander, so suck shit tigers!!

I have to say early in the piece I was sceptical about us being in any real strife because the club is being sued for Non payment but I accept that deals which are arranged outside the cap but not paid are still considered outside the rules if a player is seen to be earning additional income which they would not normally earn. Having said that, there is some cloudiness about whether the AFL knew about this particular Holland arrangement.

The club was audited in 2005 and cleared of any wrongdoing. Vlad also mentioned on SEN today he knew about the holland deal but thought it had been cleared up. My thinking now is that Holland is simply after some cash and is suing for it. Career is coming to an end and he can't get a game with the worst team in the comp. Waited 5 years to action this. Says a bit.

I say again, if we're found to have broken the rules we deserve a decent caning and will accept it. No qualms about that.

 

[itsintheblood]

You can only hope. lol. Same guy made those dodgie deals with Brown BTW. Will be interesting to see what an AFL investigation unearths. Your Clubs cheating could end up costing 2 years of the first 3 rounds of draft picks plus priority picks. Maybe even more. Yep, a long journey. Although the Tiges stuff up their draft picks or trade them away for duds anyway, so the impact at the end of the day will be minimal I guess.

What was your take on the Carl v Saints match last week parrot? Haven't seen one yet or you just been laying low?

 

[Silvagnis]

* The loss of the priority selection (selection number one) in the 2002 national draft to be held on Sunday, November 24, 2002.

* The loss of selection number 2, the first selection in round one of the 2002 national draft.

* The loss of selection number 31 in round 2 of the 2002 national draft.

* The loss of selection number 34 in round 3 of the 2002 national draft.

* Exclusion from round one of the 2002 pre-season draft to be held on Tuesday, December 17, 2002.

* The loss of the right to participate in round 1 and round 2 of the 2003 national draft.

Thanks BB, that just made my day.

The AFL will probably give the Tigers an extra draft pick for having Holland on their list and Holland ratting them out.

1. Carlton will be entitled to participate in the 2002 national draft on Sunday, November 24, from round 4, selection number 45.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJf9Y_3EZaI

2. Carlton will be entitled to participate in the 2003 pre-season draft.

Dogs take Rawlings.

 

[Salaryman]

The club was audited in 2005 and cleared of any wrongdoing. Vlad also mentioned on SEN today he knew about the holland deal but thought it had been cleared up.

This is fast becoming Vlad:

Nothing is going wrong under my reign as CEO of the AFL. The rules are 100% perfect, everything in the system is working. West Coast are proven to be responsible towards player welfare. Priority Picks work. No team is rorting the salary cap.

 

[parrot]

...Nothing is going wrong under my reign as CEO of the AFL. The rules are 100% perfect, everything in the system is working. West Coast are proven to be responsible towards player welfare. Priority Picks work. No team is rorting the salary cap.

They've been caught cheating. lol. Absolutely brilliant. Going to enjoy the Tiges supporters trying to talk their way out of this one.