Time for this Board to Close?

[lioness]

...& neither should the perts, osbornes & rendells etc.

or the boyds.....

Actually I had some younger children, footy fans, ask me who Brad Boyd was. I got quite upset!

 

[Tim the Toolman]

Don't worry, they'll soon be asking about the Lynch's - "was there a Lynch who played with the Lions?"

 

[____]

The Brisbane Lions are a new club formed in 1997.

Just saw this...

 

[Roylion]

Just saw this...

Certainly that is what the Brisbane Lions have said about their own club for years.

However the Lions themselves disavowed this in 2010 when their legal counsel described the Fitzroy Football Club in the Supreme Court of Victoria as a club with a "shrinking if not vanishing supporter base" that sought to meddle in the business of a current AFL club.

"(A club that is) historical on one side that is asking to control the actions of an ongoing organisation, the Brisbane Lions, and is doing so in a way which threatens to be the cause of significant loss.”

So in other words Brisbane argued that Fitzroy was/is a separate club to the Brisbane Lions ('an ongoing organisation') and was not merged in 1997. If Fitzroy is not part of a merged new club, then the Brisbane Lions were not formed in 1997 (as the Lions have argued for years that they were). They were in actual fact formed in 1987. From 1987-1996 Brisbane adopted a Bear as their mascot.

Moreover in this respect the Supreme Court in 2010 agreed with Brisbane and also recognised that Fitzroy was a separate club. As such they established once and for all that the Brisbane Lions are not a new club formed in 1997.

I'm not going to argue with the Supreme Court. Brisbane also revealed what they really thought in regards to the real situation in 2010, despite their previous public utterances.

 

[____]

Certainly that is what the Brisbane Lions have said about their own club for years.

However the Lions themselves disavowed this in 2010 when their legal counsel described the Fitzroy Football Club in the Supreme Court of Victoria as a club with a "shrinking if not vanishing supporter base" that sought to meddle in the business of a current AFL club.

"(A club that is) historical on one side that is asking to control the actions of an ongoing organisation, the Brisbane Lions, and is doing so in a way which threatens to be the cause of significant loss.”

So in other words Brisbane argued that Fitzroy was/is a separate club to the Brisbane Lions ('an ongoing organisation') and was not merged in 1997. If Fitzroy is not part of a merged new club, then the Brisbane Lions were not formed in 1997 (as the Lions have argued for years that they were) and were formed in 1987. From 1987-1996 Brisbane adopted a Bear as their mascot.

Moreover in this respect the Supreme Court in 2010 agreed with Brisbane and also recognised that Fitzroy was a separate club. As such they established once and for all that the Brisbane Lions are not a new club formed in 1997.

I'm not going to argue with the Supreme Court. Brisbane also revealed what they really thought in regards to the real situation in 2010, despite their previous public utterances.

More reasons to hate Michael Bowers.

 

[Roylion]

More reasons to hate Michael Bowers.

It wasn't just Michael Bowers. Certainly involved, but largely a convenient scapegoat. Who was on the Lions Board in 2010 that authorised the changes?

 

[____]

It wasn't just Michael Bowers. Certainly involved, but largely a convenient scapegoat. Who was on the Lions Board in 2010 that authorised the changes?

I know it was mainly Bowers/Kelly. Will have to Google up the rest.

 

[____]

Can't find the ones for 2010, but the current ones can be found here.

http://www.lions.com.au/board of directors/tabid/5215/default.aspx

Some of them have been around since 2002

 

[Roylion]

Can't find the ones for 2010, but the current ones can be found here.

http://www.lions.com.au/board of directors/tabid/5215/default.aspx

Some of them have been around since 2002

So Angus Johnson, Paul Williams and Linda Nash from the current board were partly responsible as well. Add Tony Kelly, Laurie Serafini and David Liddy to the above.

 

[Stocka]

Just saw this...

Pretty sure if you'd find many other interesting statements in Roylion's posting history regarding the Brisbane Lions and Fitzroy that would be contrary to his current stance. #JustSayin'

 

[Roylion]

Pretty sure if you'd find many other interesting statements in Roylion's posting history regarding the Brisbane Lions and Fitzroy that would be contrary to his current stance. #JustSayin'

Let's clarify my stance then.

• The Brisbane Lions are the representatives of Fitzroy's AFL identity in the AFL competition. They certainly have done a great deal (at varying degrees) to incorporate the AFL Fitzroy identity into their club over the past 15 years. And at the same time they have made a few mistakes, which I have pointed out over the last few years on these boards, beginning with Noel Gordon, the registered charge, the suing of Fitzroy directors, the paddlepop, the logo change and so on. It's been a roller-coaster relationship.
• The Brisbane Lions are a separate club to Fitzroy.
• The Fitzroy Football Club in the VAFA is the same club, both legally and spiritually, as the club that competed in the VFL-AFL between 1897 and 1996.
• Until 2010, the Brisbane Lions claimed they were a new club formed in 1997, due to the 'merger agreement' of 1996. As a Fitzroy supporter and in the interests of observing the spirit of the arrangement of 1996, I was certainly prepared to go along with this view, IF the Brisbane Lions wished to see it that way, especially at the time Fitzroy did not operate on the field. However in the Supreme Court case in 2010, this view was rejected by Brisbane. It was clear when it came to the crunch they regard Fitzroy as a seperate entity, that sought to meddle in the business of a current AFL club. "(A club that is) historical on one side that is asking to control the actions of an ongoing organisation, the Brisbane Lions, and is doing so in a way which threatens to be the cause of significant loss.” The fact that the Lions do not / will not change back their logo to comply with the terms of the agreement of '96 tends to suggest that this belief may be still prevalent.
• My preference is that the Brisbane Lions and Fitzroy work together to preserve and continue the Fitzroy identity at both the AFL level and at lower levels of football.

 

[Stocka]

The fact that the Lions do not / will not change back their logo to comply with the terms of the agreement of '96 tends to suggest that this belief may be still prevalent

Regarding the logo, didn't the court decide that it was only on "official club documents" and the like that the traditional Fitzroy Lion logo need to be maintained in order to fulfill the '96 agreement?

Personally for me, regardless of any legal interpretation, I think it's contrary to the "spirit" of the merger, in my eyes at least, for the club to have done what they did with the logo and jumper.

 

[____]

Even most Lions fans who never supported Fitzroy hate the paddle-pop and see the Lion that Fitzroy used as the REAL Lion. Still don't understand why Bowers and the rest of the board was dumb enough to change it.

If we (Brisbane Lions) change back to the real Lion, could you please let the whole Brisbane Lions/Fitzroy being two seperate clubs thing slip;
1) I see more of a connection to the club that Jonathan Brown currently plays for to the club that Kevin Murray, Haydn Bunton, Bernie Quinlan, Paul Roos and co. played for than the club that Warrick Capper played for.
2) It's much more fun when I can claim 11 premierships than 3 premierships!

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

It's not a matter of a "thing" which should be "let slip". It's about factual reality.

The Fitzroy Football Club is the Fitzroy Football Club. We are not a part of the Brisbane Lions, we are our own club and we always have been.

Recognition of parts of our identity within the AFL are important. But we certainly are a separate club nevertheless. That's self-evident. Brisbane took over our AFL operations and undertook obligations to Fitzroy as part of that agreement.

Brisbane did not take over Fitzroy. Nor is there any "affiliation" such as that which VFL clubs have with AFL clubs.

Our 3500 members (I think that's the number now) are Fitzroy Football Club members. Our players represent the Fitzroy Football Club. Our coaches are Fitzroy coaches. Our board is the Fitzroy Football Club board, not the Brisbane board. Our officials are Fitzroy officials. The same Fitzroy Football Club which played in the AFL until 1996, and incorporated the Fitzroy Reds in 2008. The same Fitzroy Football Club which sponsored Coburg in the VFL in 2000.

Our own club in our own right.

There's no point in passing ourselves off as something we're not - pretending our club was somehow absorbed/incorporated within Brisbane when that clearly isn't the case. It doesn't serve any of our interests to advance such a pretence.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Yeah! I'm sick of it!

This wood is irrelevant!

You're right MaroonBoy, we should close this bored now!

 

[____]

There's no point in passing ourselves off as something we're not - pretending our club was somehow absorbed/incorporated within Brisbane when that clearly isn't the case. It doesn't serve any of our interests to advance such a pretence.

Let's clarify my stance then.

• The Brisbane Lions are the representatives of Fitzroy's AFL identity in the AFL competition.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I can see your point Everton.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

A strong point indeed

Seriously though, yes, that's the obligation Brisbane took on when they took over our AFL operations - to represent Fitzroy's identity within the AFL. As per the agreement they signed with us in 1996.

That clearly doesn't mean the Fitzroy Football Club was ever somehow taken over by the Brisbane Bears. It's patently obvious that's not what happened.

 

[____]

I should've worded my question to Roylion properly...

If we (Brisbane Lions) change back to the real Lion, could you please let us Brisbane Lions claim Fitzroy's history as a part of our own as well? We are the Brisbane Bears Fitzroy Football Club, and as you said we are the representatives of Fitzroy at AFL level.
(Come on Roy, I want to claim 11 premierships, especially when fans of other clubs get to count their VFL premierships, even Sydney get to count their South Melbourne premierships, and I don't want that time I spent reading Fitzroy history books as a kid to go in vein. Also it's not really fair if I can only count Bears and not Fitzroy as part of our history).

 

[Roylion]

If we (Brisbane Lions) change back to the real Lion, could you please let us Brisbane Lions claim Fitzroy's history as a part of our own as well?

Could I please let you? It's not up to me.

We are the Brisbane Bears Fitzroy Football Club, and as you said we are the representatives of Fitzroy at AFL level.

Yes. But still not the same club. Not one legally elected Fitzroy director from 1997-2012 has ever served on the Brisbane Lions board.

(Come on Roy, I want to claim 11 premierships, especially when fans of other clubs get to count their VFL premierships, .

VFL is the same competition as the AFL, with seven added clubs

even Sydney get to count their South Melbourne premierships,

South Melbourne relocated to Sydney. Fitzroy still exists in its own right in Victoria. There's the difference.

and I don't want that time I spent reading Fitzroy history books as a kid to go in vein.

It's not in vain. You'll be more informed when you attend functions such as the Hall of Fame.

Also it's not really fair if I can only count Bears and not Fitzroy as part of our history).

Fair for who? The Brisbane Bears are still in the AFL (trading as the Brisbane Lions). Fitzroy was ejected in 1996.

 

[Carn the Roys!]

You can't make them the one club. That's something that didn't happen in 1996 due to a lot of circumstances and can't be changed now.

I don't have a problem with you claiming the flags when you're arguing with opposition supporters, it's not historically accurate but bugger 'em, they're opposition supporters. There's also a VFA flag from 1895 you can use to boost arguments if you want.

By the way reading the Fitzroy history isn't a waste, it's an important history and it does inform a legacy that the Lions are a part of. If you're ever in Melbourne on a winters afternoon I recommend getting down to a game at Brunswick Street to see the living Fitzroy football club. It's very much possible to be a Lions supporter and a Fitzroy supporter.

 

[cakewalk_1]

Fitzroy is gooooone peeps. its over for christs sake.

Get a ********en life u ********ers.

Have a bit of respect. You wouldn't like other supporters posting this type of rubbish on our board.
Perhaps you weren't old enough to appreciate what a great club Fitzroy was in the VFL. Circa 1983 side should have won the VFL flag.
I still remember that deliberate out of bounds that was paid against Fitzroy in one of the finals (Qualifying I think), worst decision ever.

 

[____]

You can't make them the one club. That's something that didn't happen in 1996 due to a lot of circumstances and can't be changed now.

I don't have a problem with you claiming the flags when you're arguing with opposition supporters, it's not historically accurate but bugger 'em, they're opposition supporters. There's also a VFA flag from 1895 you can use to boost arguments if you want.

By the way reading the Fitzroy history isn't a waste, it's an important history and it does inform a legacy that the Lions are a part of. If you're ever in Melbourne on a winters afternoon I recommend getting down to a game at Brunswick Street to see the living Fitzroy football club. It's very much possible to be a Lions supporter and a Fitzroy supporter.

If I ever do get down to Melbourne (at least two years away, due to being a poor and busy uni student), I'll try to get to a Fitzroy game. Oh and thanks for the first line of the second paragraph

BBFFC - 11 VFL/AFL Premierships hehehe

In all seriousness though, before I signed up for this site I always assumed Bears, Fitzroy and Brisbane Lions were legally separate identities. Obviously I always considered Fitzroy a part of our history. And I do believe that AFL records should either have them as three separate clubs or just the one (regardless of legal identities). I also never realised, until I signed up here, that there were so many old Fitzroy fans who don't support the Brisbane Lions (although I can understand their reasons of not doing so). There probably would be a bigger percentage in real life than on this site as well, because I can imagine some just giving up footy completely and therefore would not care if this site exists.

Also the living FFC should play a home game up here in Queensland. I know there are quite a few old Fitzroy fans up here, and it also allows us Queensland based Lions fans to get more of a feel to the Fitzroy side of our club, just a suggestion. It could be a curtain raiser to a Brisbane Lions home game, I know I'd definitely arrive early (I signed up as a Brisbane Lions member the same year they stopped having curtain raisers ).

I hope I can afford to go to the 2014 Hall of Fame dinner. I might be finished uni by then or I could be going for another degree.

Also just curious about what you guys think of this logo I designed? Considering I used "1883" instead of "1986" or "1996" (Any Lions merchandise that has 1986 just shits me, more than the paddle-pop).
Also I actually own a Lions hoodie with 1883 on it, it's from the First 18 range.http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/mocklionslogo1.png/

 

[Roysforever]

With regards to the thread title I sadly believe our board will inevitably close. My biggest concern is what will happen to board content. Will it evaporate to cyberheaven or can it be redirected to a segment of the Fitzroy website? Who owns the content? I suspect it belongs to the creators of bigfooty. Can the moderators elaborate upon any contingency plans if/when our board is pushed to the side.

 

[Mobbs]

It would belong to Bigfooty.

But text is cheap. If it closed, all the content would most likely remain somewhere at Bigfooty. Thei\y're not in the habit of deleting to make room. Loss would be more likely through attrition, the odd crashes etc.