Time To Forge A New Culture.

[Snag Breac]

Dark days at Collingwood, but this slough of form, coupled with crass behaviour may give us the spur we need to make some serious changes, and I'm not talking about media-pacifying measures like sacking players.

I'm talking about a culture that would prevent these things happening in the first place. Remember that movie 300? Remember how those Spartans devoted their lives to becoming war machines? Well our lads, for the few years they're in the AFL system, need to devote themselves to their footy with a similar passion.

They should dedicate themselves to their training, and do nothing that would compromise their on-field performance. That means zero alcohol intake drinking the season, no drugs, no night clubs, no celebrity incidents. And the penalties for transgression should be uniform, severe and progressive.

Don't tell me it's too hard - if they're lucky enough to have the privilege of a career in professional footy, they can suck it up. What would you do for half the chance? And they can all support one another in their deprivations; it'll build team spirit.

Every player should have the guidelines incorporated into their contract, so that when an incident arises, it will be clear what the club's response will be. At the moment, when these things happen the club seems to be reacting in the heat of the moment and in the midst of a media frenzy. It will make life much easier for Eddie and Co. if the club culture is set in stone. Then we'll know what we really stand for.

It's not about morality, it's about performance. They can do whatever they like in the off-season, provided it doesn't affect their form when they return to training.

 

[BEEG]

Dark days at Collingwood, but this slough of form, coupled with crass behaviour may give us the spur we need to make some serious changes, and I'm not talking about media-pacifying measures like sacking players.

I'm talking about a culture that would prevent these things happening in the first place. Remember that movie 300? Remember how those Spartans devoted their lives to becoming war machines? Well our lads, for the few years they're in the AFL system, need to devote themselves to their footy with a similar passion.

They should dedicate themselves to their training, and do nothing that would compromise their on-field performance. That means zero alcohol intake drinking the season, no drugs, no night clubs, no celebrity incidents. And the penalties for transgression should be uniform, severe and progressive.

Don't tell me it's too hard - if they're lucky enough to have the privilege of a career in professional footy, they can suck it up. What would you do for half the chance? And they can all support one another in their deprivations; it'll build team spirit.

Every player should have the guidelines incorporated into their contract, so that when an incident arises, it will be clear what the club's response will be. At the moment, when these things happen the club seems to be reacting in the heat of the moment and in the midst of a media frenzy. It will make life much easier for Eddie and Co. if the club culture is set in stone. Then we'll know what we really stand for.

It's not about morality, it's about performance. They can do whatever they like in the off-season, provided it doesn't affect their form when they return to training.

Not Robots this stuff will happen with people at this age

 

[pongo_3931]

Being not much older than Heath I don't subscribe to the 'not robots' approach. If these guys are robots, they're robots with $500k+ pay checks. I'm a student living from week to week and I stay off the turps for my betterment. If there was a casual mil or so in it for a few years I'd work tooth and nail for my betterment and for my money. But I digress.

I agree with you Snag, time to pull the pin on the drinking culture that is present.

Right now it's impossible to gauge to what capacity some players are at if they're drinking heavily between games. Could X player have played 20% better if they didn't hit the sauce? Or could Y have kicked that winning goal if their input was what it could be? Etc etc...

So yep, write the responsibilities down, make "the penalties for transgression... uniform, severe and progressive" and take no prisoners... or maybe offer them a 40k paycheck with no baby hugging and responsibility attached.

Sorry still spewing.

 

[Bodiefish]

To build a new culture we need to start with a new Pres and new coach

 

[Bloben]

I agree that we must create a new culture however changing culture is one of the most difficult things to do. Unfortunately I am at the point where we won't be able to change anything with the same approach and I think that there should be immediate and strong actions taken in the approach.

Firstly there must be zero tolerance with a no booze clause for the entire club - with a warning made out of the example in Didak (who must be removed from the group... God help us)

Secondly, this may seem a bit of overkill, but I think we need a fresh face in charge and therefore Malthouse should be replaced with a younger coach who can connect more with the younger players. Mick has had a poor year and his stand offish approach with the players I think is not helping. We need a coach who could be a role model for the group. Bring in Buckley - I don't care if he hasn't done an apprenticeship. I have faith in his ability to lead the group and he will be respected. Plus he has a brilliant football mind which means his gut instincts would be better than having a few years learning any coaching processes elsewhere.

 

[Territory Magpie]

Excellent idea Snag, the club should implement it without delay.

Our season is going to Hell in a handbasket. I really think changing the club's culture should be the No 1 priority from today, with prospects of finals participation and winning games to take a secondary role, until we get the fundamentals right.

I'm sick of my club being a laughing stock. We need leadership now!

 

[Godfrey Jones]

im always surprised to hear about players who drink during the season. seems they all do it. but hey if for the majority of them its not affecting their training and footy then who am i or anyone else to tell them what they can or cant do?

they get hired to win footy matches. full stop. forget all that role model nonsence. i dont believe the football club has the right to control every aspect of their lives. give them a curfew. no drinking. no parties. no girlfriends etc etc... its silly to me. as long as their private life doesnt affect what they've been hired to do - ie train and play football - then you cant ask for more

i dont give a rats what a player does off-field, and we only hear about it becase the ****in idiots who run the media jam it down our throats.

so sorry snag i cant agree with this one.

 

[Pies_10]

To build a new culture we need to start with a new Pres and new coach

New Coach yes, new Pres NO. Eddies been great for this club why would you get rid of him.

 

[pendles]

They can't sack him. Discipline him, yes. But don't sack him.

Believe it or not, the Collingwood Football Club exists to win premierships not to be society's moral compass.

 

[Mental Magpie]

I agree too.

But it needs to start right here and right now.

We (Collingwood FC) will not tolerate being lied to by our players.

We will not tolerate making complete fools of our President, Coach, Captain and Leadership Group.

Both boys need to be suspended for the rest of the year.

I love both these players, so it kills me saying this.

Suspend both players until the end of the season. Throw both of them up at trade time. Didak for Kerr. Shaw and first round pick for J. Brown. Either for O'keefe. (for example)

If the club can pull off a couple of good trades as a result, then so be it.

If it can't, then it will be a massive reality check for both players.

Why lie? This is the real issue now, not the initial Drink Driving!

 

[Bloben]

They can't sack him. Discipline him, yes. But don't sack him.

Believe it or not, the Collingwood Football Club exists to win premierships not to be society's moral compass.

Unfortunately Pendles, not sacking/trading a player in these circumstances is likely to have much greater long term impacts that would mean we are never going to win a premiership.

Actions speak louder than words and the club is crying out for strong action to move on from this crap

 

[Godfrey Jones]

lying is the real issue, and drink driving is not??

seriously guys. wtf has happened to some of the thinking around here..

this place has gone mad.

 

[shawthing09]

Things are always under the microscope when the side is in a slump culture, attitude, coach etc everyone wants something to blame.

Look at WCE as an example of the fact that off field culture doesn't effect team preformance so long as when they step on the ground they are professionals and do not let off field stuff get in the way. It only becomes a problem when training, or team morale is affected as in they do not play for each other. I have no doubt regardless of their opinions of each other they pies boys play for each other come crunch time.

 

[Mental Magpie]

They can't sack him. Discipline him, yes. But don't sack him.

Believe it or not, the Collingwood Football Club exists to win premierships not to be society's moral compass.

They have to be sacked!

Stuff society and the media.

We need to do it for the betterment of the Club.

The message needs to be loud and clear.

"We will not tolerate our players lying to the Club".

 

[Mental Magpie]

lying is the real issue, and drink driving is not??

seriously guys. wtf has happened to some of the thinking around here..

this place has gone mad.

Don't get me wrong. Drink driving will always be an issue.

In this instance though, the issue is that both players lied about what exactly happened on Sun night.

 

[thatday]

The leadership group should sit down before the end of the season and decide about curfews and drinking bans for next season. I don't think I am over reacting here, if the players are serious about winning a premiership then they should be able to focus on the season. They can still go out and have fun, but go home at a reasonable hour and don't get pissed on certain nights. You break the rules, you get suspended or worse. It really isn't all that difficult. The players don't seem to give a shit if they get a fine, show the clowns around the club that they are pissing off the rest of the players and maybe they'll pull their heads in.

 

[Subprime]

I'd like to see the Club's leaders act in a cold and calculating manner on this issue. That's not what I saw yesterday.

There is reason to be irate with H Shaw and Didak and they each deserve to cop a penalty.

Alan, it would seem, has broken the promise he made to the club last year and Heath has tried to protect him. Heath, in turn, has done a foolish thing that his own family would be dark on him for, let alone the footy club or its supporters. They both tried to cover up their actions.

I hope to see quiet resolve at todays press conference, not rash statements or quips. I want to see a closing of ranks.

And when the season is over, make decisions on the future of these two players in the best interests of the Collingwood Football Club.

 

[pongo_3931]

I'd like to see the Club's leaders act in a cold and calculating manner on this issue. That's not what I saw yesterday.

There is reason to be irate with H Shaw and Didak and they each deserve to cop a penalty.

Alan, it would seem, has broken the promise he made to the club last year and Heath has tried to protect him. Heath, in turn, has done a foolish thing that his own family would be dark on him for, let alone the footy club or its supporters. They both tried to cover up their actions.

I hope to see quiet resolve at todays press conference, not rash statements or quips. I want to see a closing of ranks.

And when the season is over, make decisions on the future of these two players in the best interests of the Collingwood Football Club.

A measured response mate. Nice to hear.

 

[Bloben]

Whatever happens it is clear that the foundations of our new culture will be laid at 2pm today.

I feel like a criminal who knows he is guilty waiting on the verdict of a jury right now

 

[Vampire013]

I agree with Snag Break. I would give the players a choice.
The can have the booze or they can play football.
Choose one or the other. I personally don't drink and don't feel I am missing out on anything by not drinking. I can have a social drink from time to time, but do not see the pleasure in hammering yourself and feeling shit the next day.
I have mentioned before that Nathan Buckley had a principle of not touching alcohol during the season. It's just common sense. He is a true professional at what he decides to do. That's why he performed week in and out. His body was 100%. How do you expect to play football if you have hammered yourself to the tune of 3 times over the legal limit. Bloody fools !
No wonder the pricks have been under performing. Seems like we have too many party boys who don't care about winning.
I would impose a drink ban on all the players. If they don't abide, bye bye.
Having the best facilities, trainers etc. does not help if you wreck all the work you put in by getting intoxicated to the extent these clowns did.

 

[RRRooocccaaa]

INteresting talking about this and the Johnathan Brown trade possibility.

The article on JB by Martin Flanagan in last week's The Age was a wonderful piece, focussing more on JB the individual and how he has a wonderful way of including people but still showing leadership.

Could be a huge catalyst for the club culturally. Burnsy is the natural choice for captain now, as he has heart and soul, discipline and hardness. But he misses the big personality that Bucks had over the group, and that is something that the current group needs. A larger-than-life figure like Brown would have a major psychological impact on the group, especially the younger lads, and perhaps kick-start a sense of unity within the group. He's personable, imposing, funny, approachable, fearsome and inspiring all in the one package which makes for an irresistable force. Notice how when he's on the footy show he manages to cut through the bullshit, be himself and hold the limelight without faltering?

I'm sure the coaching staff and football management will be chasing more experience heads like Brown now - they are probably resigned to the fact that despite having some older reliable players, we have missed the on-and-off-field leadership that Bucks provided as a club ambassador and James Clement provided as a mentor. Wakes, Burns, Lockyer and O'Bree still provide it but are missing that spark that was there last year.

I think I've already chalked up this year as an awkward re-run of '06 (i.e. make the finals but bow out quickly) but don't see this as a major step backward. I think we've just hit a crossroad and need to take a decisive step in one direction or another before we become a genuine contender again.

Won't stop me cheering on the boys this year, though. I reckon the other 98% of the players need 100% of our support from this point on (to paraphrase MM).

 

[ralu]

if i was lucky enough to be traded to collingwood, i promise you that i would be happy not to drink for the whole season let alone drink drive.

i would give anything to play one game in the black and white!

 

[jj1978]

It's a tough one.. I think Collingwood in general as a club has a relatively good culture.

For one you have a large supporter base, are financially viable, have a good training facility and high profile coach and Eddie.

Perhaps maybe the issue is really that the club is too powerful???

Look at Weagles and their recent predicaments a powerhousem rich, the love of a city...

Collingwood is the no1 Melbourne team with money and power like West Coast, could it be that the realisation that players are playing for the most powerful melbourne team is getting to some of the more socially fragile (Didak in this instance) players heads?

I think maybe the only thing that may need to be done is for Collingwood to look after themselves for a year or two and not have Eddie constantly promote the club and blab about everything and anything about footy getting his face in the paper (which is difficult).

Might be good to go back to your roots and let your players have a taste of difficulties of not being in such a rich club... let them train at Arden st for a few months or at some poorer facilites so that they learn playing afl and for Collingwood is privelige.

 

[spartan-magpie]

i agree with snag too.. we need to become SPARTAN MAGPIES... we need to pursue perfection.. to become a single impenetrable unit like a spartan phalanx.. collingwood could learn much from the ancient spartans..
didak needs to be punished severly.. but we as a club need to keep him amongst our ranks.. you cannot turn away ur own.. punish yes.. banish.. definately not... as for a suitable punishment i am not sure.. but punishing the members by not playing him and didak doesnt sit well with me.. although id rather see them miss the season than hafe to face the prospect of not seeing them don the black and white again...
right now collingwood is the 300 facing the persians(afl media opposition clubs/supporters et al) at the hot gates.. we need to make a stand and deliver a message that a unified collingwood will not be dictated to by anyone.. and by this i mean whatever we decide it is not due the external influences trying to dictate what we should do with our team...


this incident does not only reflect heath and alan.. it shows that as a football club we have many defiencies both on and off field.. not only do we need to deal with this incident but i believe a complete review (by an externally based firm) should happen asap.. obviously alan and heath felt complelled to lie to eddie and co.. but the question is why? ok we know the media is an issue... but why lie to eddie and co? something doesnt sit right...

im really confused right now.. so i probably dont make much sense.. i have an exam @ 4 and i cant study.. im gutted to think how bleak our short term future is.. what the hell is wrong at collingwood... im not sure but i think mick shoud trade in the art of war for the battle of marathon and the battle of thermopalae... surely he can learn something from these 2 ancient battles for people that were faced with unbelievable odds and came out triumphant...

 

[spartan-magpie]

I reckon the other 98% of the players need 100% of our support from this point on (to paraphrase MM).

so u dont think heath and dids need our support?