Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[Dr B]

Seriously Im at the stage if Sydney wont play ball and offer anything decent then I'm happy to let Tippett go to the PSD and get nothing. We will have to weigh up whether its worth us looking like push overs during trade period or take a stance, much like Port did, and say we will not be pushed around and taken advantage of. Sydney will have to be lucky to get him in the PSD.

The question I have is would we feel worst if

1. We accept unders on the deal
2. We send him to the PSD and he gets to Sydney for nothing.

Players seem to be able to manipulate the draft so they get to where they want.

The thought of option two is intolerable to me. Prefer to cut my losses and get back into the draft and use our salary cap.

 

[Iva Bigun]

Sydney ATM

 

[Iva Bigun]

The question I have is would we feel worst if

1. We accept unders on the deal
2. We send him to the PSD and he gets to Sydney for nothing.

Players seem to be able to manipulate the draft so they get to where they want.

The thought of option two is intolerable to me. Prefer to cut my losses and get back into the draft and use our salary cap.

One of the clubs will pick him up in the draft before Sydney, remember draft rules dictate only a 2 YEAR contract (as a minimum) someone will invest the $2 million. Sydney know this so they will cough up at some stage

 

[Tex200]

I rate them on draft position initially - how else are they supposed to be rated? Once they start putting runs on the board then I judge them on performances alone, but GHS doesn't have any runs on the board at this stage. Nobody would be stupid enough to rate any of the Morton brothers ahead of Sloane. To suggest that I would is almost a strawman worthy of a yellow card. Frankly, it's insulting.

But seriously, why do people rate GHS so highly, given that he doesn't have the runs on the board to justify rating him higher than his original draft position? He's only played 3 senior games, which is less than Murdoch (a direct peer at the same club).

I must have written at least 2 lengthy posts on why he is sought after and why his development has been slower. Now obviously you don't respect me or anything i write, I couldn't care less.

It is mildly irritating to read the same, shallow observations, of this player over and over again.

I suggest you do about 20 mins research and you may see something a whole lot of others do, including our club.

 

[BrissyCrow]

The question I have is would we feel worst if

1. We accept unders on the deal
2. We send him to the PSD and he gets to Sydney for nothing.

Players seem to be able to manipulate the draft so they get to where they want.

The thought of option two is intolerable to me. Prefer to cut my losses and get back into the draft and use our salary cap.

If it gets to the point where AFC is considering sending Tippett to the PSD then its only because we havent been offered anything that is attractive to us. Lets face it Pick 22 and Jessie White is really only Pick 22. So the decision is whats in the best interest to the club. Take 22 and be looked upon as easybeats, or sacrifice 22 and tell the players and other clubs that we are serious when we stand our ground. IMO I think there comes a time when you have to say "go F*** yourselves" we want a fair trade or take the chance in the PSD and be prepared to let them call your bluff.

 

[Huntercrow]

Hey does Tippet still play basketball? Perhaps we can shop him around the NBL. May get a better return.

 

[Heafy83]

The question I have is would we feel worst if

1. We accept unders on the deal
2. We send him to the PSD and he gets to Sydney for nothing.

Players seem to be able to manipulate the draft so they get to where they want.

The thought of option two is intolerable to me. Prefer to cut my losses and get back into the draft and use our salary cap.

Seriously I would feel worse if we took Pick 22 + White than if we got nothing for him........ even if Sydney got him. At least we can hold our head up high and say we are not going to be bullied on unders on a trade. We aren't really gaining all that much if we do take a 22 and white anyway when you think about what we are losing.

It would also have Bulcher and Tippett filling their pants as to where he is to end up because I also do believe they nominate a bracket and not a specific salary like 800k-$1mill and not a flat $1mill.

 

[Hodgy]

One of the clubs will pick him up in the draft before Sydney, remember draft rules dictate only a 2 YEAR contract (as a minimum) someone will invest the $2 million. Sydney know this so they will cough up at some stage

Not only that but Sydney would have to keep the $1m free in their salary cap in case he slips through to them so it will affect what they can do through trade week. Also even if we are bluffing, we should tell Tip and Sydney that if he is still there at our pick that we will redraft him. They can't know for sure that we won't and surely doing a deal with Gold Coast would be preferable to him than risking being redrafted for 2 years by Adelaide. Being in front of Sydney in the PSD is one of the few cards we have in this negotiation so we must make everyone think we might use it even if we have no intention of doing so.

 

[Heafy83]

Hey does Tippet still play basketball? Perhaps we can shop him around the NBL. May get a better return.

What Tippett is asking per year is an NBL's team full salary cap for a year........ so no I don't think so lol

PS I know you are joking just pointing out the vast difference between the two sports.

 

[relapse]

One of the clubs will pick him up in the draft before Sydney, remember draft rules dictate only a 2 YEAR contract (as a minimum) someone will invest the $2 million. Sydney know this so they will cough up at some stage

I agree.

Clubs currently aren't interested at the moment because they have to satisfy the trade value for Tippett, but being able to grab Tippett in the PSD for nothing is a gamechanger. He wont be there by the time Sydney have their pick.

 

[Realslimshady2]

The question I have is would we feel worst if

1. We accept unders on the deal
2. We send him to the PSD and he gets to Sydney for nothing.

Players seem to be able to manipulate the draft so they get to where they want.

The thought of option two is intolerable to me. Prefer to cut my losses and get back into the draft and use our salary cap.

Secret option number 3: send to PSD and have another club (including us) pick him up. If Ireland is honest in saying he is being paid less in first year then he is on in Adelaide then he would be a bargain. Not that I believe Ireland is being honest

 

[AFC3000]

If they genuinely offer nothing to us that is of benefit such as a a draft pick 22+ and a depth player who isn't getting a game there, and is unlikely to get one here because they are are behind several other players. Then I would rather send him to the PSD and hope he doesn't get to Sydney. Not to get back at Tippett or Sydney, simply because we don't there list improving while they are our biggest threat for the flag.

We also have the extra cap space to use which means we don't have to lose out, we just need to use it right.

 

[Vader]

I must have written at least 2 lengthy posts on why he is sought after and why his development has been slower. Now obviously you don't respect me or anything i write, I couldn't care less.

It is mildly irritating to read the same, shallow observations, of this player over and over again.

I suggest you do about 20 mins research and you may see something a whole lot of others do, including our club.

I've read your posts and I don't disrespect you, but I do take what you've written with a grain of salt.

Yes, he played well in the VFL GF. I'm aware of that - though I haven't watched the game. At the end of the day though, that's not the same as performing at the senior level. Brad Symes won the Magarey Medal this year, as the Best & Fairest player in the entire SANFL. What more evidence do you need?

I know he was coming off a low fitness base, having a cricket background rather than a footy background. Even so, I expect most genuine guns (or players who will become guns) to play more than 3 games in their first 2 years on the list. For example, Sloane played 1 game in his debut year, then burst onto the scene with 14 games in his second season. Talls take longer - but GHS isn't a tall, so that argument doesn't wash either.

I just don't think he has any real runs on the board, certainly not enough to justify arguing his value having increased to the point where he's now worth a top-20 pick. I still think that pick #22 is right at the very upper end of his value range, given what he has demonstrated so far.

 

[Realslimshady2]

Not only that but Sydney would have to keep the $1m free in their salary cap in case he slips through to them so it will affect what they can do through trade week. Also even if we are bluffing, we should tell Tip and Sydney that if he is still there at our pick that we will redraft him. They can't know for sure that we won't and surely doing a deal with Gold Coast would be preferable to him than risking being redrafted for 2 years by Adelaide. Being in front of Sydney in the PSD is one of the few cards we have in this negotiation so we must make everyone think we might use it even if we have no intention of doing so.

Same applies to us though, we need to have the money available to draft him plus would impact our negotiations, right? We would have to have the $ available in our TPP to show we are serious otherwise the bluff would be obvious to Sydney. Maybe I am wrong but don't see this approach working.

 

[fairfooty]

You guys a freaken amazing, 208 pages 208 I think that's bigger than our entire board.

Luv ya Iva - my fav oppositio poster - think I'll make you an honorary Crows supporter as well!

 

[Heafy83]

Same applies to us though, we need to have the money available to draft him plus would impact our negotiations, right? We would have to have the $ available in our TPP to show we are serious otherwise the bluff would be obvious to Sydney. Maybe I am wrong but don't see this approach working.

But who are we adding during trade week that will use that extra cash. We have salary from Tipp, Knights, Symes, Dogga to spend. Even if we add a GHS or Giles there will be plenty left over. Not to mention the extra $ from the increase in salary cap next year we wouldn't have spent all of yet.

 

[Hodgy]

Same applies to us though, we need to have the money available to draft him plus would impact our negotiations, right? We would have to have the $ available in our TPP to show we are serious otherwise the bluff would be obvious to Sydney. Maybe I am wrong but don't see this approach working.

You're probably right, I have very little idea how transparent clubs TPP's are. Mayby clubs can ask the AFL how much a club has in reserve, much like a poker player asking for a count of opponants chips, but at this moment we can certainly bluff. And if I was Tippett and Adelaide told me at this time we are planning to redraft you unless we get a top 10 pick, and Sydney were telling him they won't have a top 10 pick to give, then I would be rethinking Brisbane and GC as an option.

 

[Realslimshady2]

But who are we adding during trade week that will use that extra cash. We have salary from Tipp, Knights, Symes, Dogga to spend. Even if we add a GHS or Giles there will be plenty left over. Not to mention the extra $ from the increase in salary cap next year we wouldn't have spent all of yet.

True, but as I said it would have to be obvious to Sydney we have cap available otherwise the cards up our sleeve are 7-2 off suit. I would just rather he gets picked up by GWS, that would be sweet karma, I don't want him back in a crows jumper.

 

[cmndstab]

I rate them on draft position initially - how else are they supposed to be rated? Once they start putting runs on the board then I judge them on performances alone, but GHS doesn't have any runs on the board at this stage. Nobody would be stupid enough to rate any of the Morton brothers ahead of Sloane. To suggest that I would is almost a strawman worthy of a yellow card. Frankly, it's insulting.

But seriously, why do people rate GHS so highly, given that he doesn't have the runs on the board to justify rating him higher than his original draft position? He's only played 3 senior games, which is less than Murdoch (a direct peer at the same club).

Look, I know absolutely nothing about GHS (which is why I've kept out of that discussion) but simply looking at his draft position and games played is misleading. Sometimes a player can be dominating the seconds, and show clearly that they have a strong AFL future, but for whatever reason just aren't quite getting a regular AFL game yet. Think of Walker in 08 or Sloane in 09. Yes, I am aware those two examples are of players in their first year, but that's besides the point. Sometimes a player has reached a stage where they've put everything together and demonstrated that they have legitimate class and they're just waiting for their opportunity to show it on the big stage.

No idea if GHS falls into this category or not, but it's too simplistic to disregard him simply because Geelong haven't given him regular games yet.

 

[Dr B]

If it gets to the point where AFC is considering sending Tippett to the PSD then its only because we havent been offered anything that is attractive to us. Lets face it Pick 22 and Jessie White is really only Pick 22. So the decision is whats in the best interest to the club. Take 22 and be looked upon as easybeats, or sacrifice 22 and tell the players and other clubs that we are serious when we stand our ground. IMO I think there comes a time when you have to say "go F*** yourselves" we want a fair trade or take the chance in the PSD and be prepared to let them call your bluff.

Agree. 22 is absolutely not enough. But I guess what i am trying to work out is whilst we would want 1 top 10 and another top 20. Where do we draw the line.

Personally if we got a top 10 late in the process I would take it.

As I said otherwise we get nothing

 

[ryan_7911]

One of the clubs will pick him up in the draft before Sydney, remember draft rules dictate only a 2 YEAR contract (as a minimum) someone will invest the $2 million. Sydney know this so they will cough up at some stage

Agreed whoever picks him up can pay him 1 mil for the season then on trade him for what should be a top 10 pick basically for nothing.

 

[Tex200]

I've read your posts and I don't disrespect you, but I do take what you've written with a grain of salt.

Yes, he played well in the VFL GF. I'm aware of that - though I haven't watched the game. At the end of the day though, that's not the same as performing at the senior level. Brad Symes won the Magarey Medal this year, as the Best & Fairest player in the entire SANFL. What more evidence do you need?

I know he was coming off a low fitness base, having a cricket background rather than a footy background. Even so, I expect most genuine guns (or players who will become guns) to play more than 3 games in their first 2 years on the list. For example, Sloane played 1 game in his debut year, then burst onto the scene with 14 games in his second season. Talls take longer - but GHS isn't a tall, so that argument doesn't wash either.

I just don't think he has any real runs on the board, certainly not enough to justify arguing his value having increased to the point where he's now worth a top-20 pick. I still think that pick #22 is right at the very upper end of his value range, given what he has demonstrated so far.

Then I can only suggest you read some of yhe geelong supporters views.

Perhaps they describe it best when consensus over there is they dont want caddy if it meant giving up GHS, but they would give him up for Rohan.

 

[dblue8]

Ignoring the complex draft deals here's a simple trade. It might be seen as unders a bit but the Crows aren't looking for a like for like player for Tippett.

GWS - Gain: Pick 22 Lose: Giles
Sydney - Gain: Tippett Lose: Pick 22
Adelaide - Gain: Giles Lose: Tippett

GWS can use one of their 6 first round draft picks to pick up a new ruck or more likely trade for an experienced ruck. Personally I'd like to pick up B Grundy as a ruck/key forward in the draft but he'll probably be long gone by the time pick 19 comes around - most likely GWS which would leave GWS with both Giles and Grundy which is a lose/lose for Adelaide.

Are there any key/midsize defenders in the SANFL worth pursuing outside the radar of interstate clubs?

 

[jackster83]

That is a shithouse deal for us dblue

 

[crow4life]

Then I can only suggest you read some of yhe geelong supporters views.

Perhaps they describe it best when consensus over there is they dont want caddy if it meant giving up GHS, but they would give him up for Rohan.

If Sando wants him thats good enough for me!!!