Tom Bugg - In trouble? how many weeks? - now with a poll!

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Actually victims of crime dont have to "press" charges. In principle you offend against the community not the victim. Would be entirely possible for Police to charge players with or without a complaint.

Might technically be true, but there's no way police press charges for an on-field incident without the player's consent, which won't happen.

 

[Bokonon_]

Might technically be true, but there's no way police press charges for an on-field incident without the player's consent, which won't happen.

Agreed, just pointing out the onission.. My mind goes to a boxing match or any organised fight, the concept if criminal charges is a real can of worms, that would probably be the death of contact sport. Unless in exceptional circumstances.
Not completely inconcievable if community values change, but that's a bigger can of worms.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Why would it stop at violence?

Can you imagine trying to prosecute this:



A complete nightmare for the legal system.

 

[ydraw]

Why would it stop at violence?

Can you imagine trying to prosecute this:

View attachment 388741

A complete nightmare for the legal system.

People have already been prosecuted for less.

 

[theyellowsash]

Where would it end?

This is a can of worms best left closed.

So why charge regular people with assault then?

 

[theyellowsash]

People have already been prosecuted for less.

Bullshit. Noone gets prosecuted for accusing someone of calling them a gorilla.

 

[kickazz]

Where would it end?

This is a can of worms best left closed.

"I think we need to take a conservative approach to this so we can stay conservative"

 

[Russian Demon]

OP has absolutely NFI how these things are handled in the courts. While you might get some charged, the mitigating circumstances, the workplace element, and the extremely loose legislation around assault, would lead to a complete circus.

AFL punishments are getting harder and harder. In my opinion they should get harder still for punches on players (yes that includes Bugg). The AFL is the best mechanism to deal with it, and as the punishments get harder, the incidents get rarer - a trend even blind freddy can see over the last 30 years.

 

[theyellowsash]

Why would it stop at violence?

Can you imagine trying to prosecute this:

View attachment 388741

A complete nightmare for the legal system.

Yeah imagine trying to prosecute someone for that, it wouldn't even get to court. Nice try to use the assault of a player to further your racial hatred.

 

[theyellowsash]

OP has absolutely NFI how these things are handled in the courts. While you might get some charged, the mitigating circumstances, the workplace element, and the extremely loose legislation around assault, would lead to a complete circus.

AFL punishments are getting harder and harder. In my opinion they should get harder still for punches on players (yes that includes Bugg). The AFL is the best mechanism to deal with it, and as the punishments get harder, the incidents get rarer - a trend even blind freddy can see over the last 30 years.

The courts seemed to deal with Marley Williams assault just fine. Why is a barely aggravated punch so hard? You don't think regular people with stress, intoxication, self defense etc throw up complications that the court can't deal with? The courts aren't a yes/no tickbox affair like the MRP they can take situation into account just fine. And I'm curious as to what mitigating circumstances you think there were that allows bugg to knock mills out?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The Fahour case is unlike the others.

He ran 15 meters to swing a punch at a blokes head, with intent to do maximum damage.

He most definitely should be charged with assault.


Other bits of niggle, jumper punches, elbows to chests, reflex punches....not in the same ballpark.

 

[ydraw]

Bullshit. Noone gets prosecuted for accusing someone of calling them a gorilla.

2 students were prosecuted under the national racial vilification laws for posting on facebook: “Just got kicked out of the unsigned indigenous computer room. QUT stopping segregation with segregation?”

 

[theyellowsash]

The Fahour case is unlike the others.

He ran 15 meters to swing a punch at a blokes head, with intent to do maximum damage.

He most definitely should be charged with assault.


Other bits of niggle, jumper punches, elbows to chests, reflex punches....not in the same ballpark.

So you bump into me, and as a reflex I turn around and knock you out with a punch. You think I shouldn't be charged with assault?

 

[Bollox]

Regulation outrage machine now in 3rd gear.
In order to gain personal attention, one must act more outraged than the last.

Please...discuss till blue in the face.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yeah imagine trying to prosecute someone for that, it wouldn't even get to court.

The law is the law. You don't get to cherry pick what suits you.

Nice try to use the assault of a player to further your racial hatred.

Disturbing.

 

[kickazz]

So you bump into me, and as a reflex I turn around and knock you out with a punch. You think I shouldn't be charged with assault?

Anyone with those sort of reflexes probably should avoid crowds

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So you bump into me, and as a reflex I turn around and knock you out with a punch. You think I shouldn't be charged with assault?

I see your point, but....Correct. If it's a reflex action, without too much malice then it's not really worthy of an assault charge in my opinion.

Intent to cause damage, in a premeditated scenario is different.

Fahour knew what he intended do long before he got to the melee.

 

[theyellowsash]

2 students were prosecuted under the national racial vilification laws for posting on facebook: “Just got kicked out of the unsigned indigenous computer room. QUT stopping segregation with segregation?”

Nice try, but firstly that was a civil case not a criminal case. If you don't know what that means, it is that one person was suing another and police weren't involved.

Secondly the case FAILED and the suer was ordered to pay costs.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-...sts-after-18c-racism-case/8108442?pfmredir=sm

 

[PoppedCorn]

So now there's 3 threads on this shit plus the one in the other area???
I'm over it already

 

[ydraw]

Nice try, but firstly that was a civil case not a criminal case. If you don't know what that means, it is that one person was suing another and police weren't involved.

Secondly the case FAILED and the suer was ordered to pay costs.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-...sts-after-18c-racism-case/8108442?pfmredir=sm

And it would also be a civil case if Adam Goodes took the person who vilified him to court.

The fact the case failed doesn't mean it never went to court. Cost the students hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend themselves.

 

[kickazz]

The reason guys in footy don't incur criminal charges is because by playing the game, you actually consent to assault.

That's broadly speaking. You most definitely consent to all forms of assault (tackling, bumping, accidental contact, etc) that are within the rules of the game.

Then the is borderline stuff, that the tribunal deals with.

Anything clearly outside the rules and norms of the game would be criminal though. Like if you you repeatedly kicked a player on the ground in the head for example.

Running from behind and from so far away really makes the consent line pretty thin. You don't expect that at all. His only defence would be that there was a brawl, and he would be expected to help teammates and stop them from getting hurt. I think the minute the victim enters a brawl, they somewhat escalate the level of consent to some form of assault. If we still think this takes it too far then it could be criminal assault.

 

[Bokonon_]

The reason guys in footy don't incur criminal charges is because by playing the game, you actually consent to assault.

That's broadly speaking. You most definitely consent to all forms of assault (tackling, bumping, accidental contact, etc) that are within the rules of the game.

Then the is borderline stuff, that the tribunal deals with.

Anything clearly outside the rules and norms of the game would be criminal though. Like if you you repeatedly kicked a player on the ground in the head for example.

Running from behind and from so far away really makes the consent line pretty thin. You don't expect that at all. His only defence would be that there was a brawl, and he would be expected to help teammates and stop them from getting hurt. I think the minute the victim enters a brawl, they somewhat escalate the level of consent to some form of assault. If we still think this takes it too far then it could be criminal assault.

Naah
Nothing personal but the notion you can consent to assault is absurd. Fair enough to say charges aren't laid by convention.

 

[threesixpio]

Tell you what - it would have been a pretty bloody serious charge. So there are some circumstances where I actually agree. I think if it is

a) off the ball
b) intentional
c) has caused a serious injury which definitely includes unconsciousness by the way

I'm all for it

But one needs to consider the cases of Pallente and Brown to see why it isn't. It's got nothing to do with the AFL - it's to do with THE LAW.

 

[Sttew]

The Fahour case is unlike the others.

He ran 15 meters to swing a punch at a blokes head, with intent to do maximum damage.

He most definitely should be charged with assault.

And hopefully sacked if it has not already happened. He has single handedly (no pun intended) brought the game into disrepute

 

[Russian Demon]

The courts seemed to deal with Marley Williams assault just fine. Why is a barely aggravated punch so hard? You don't think regular people with stress, intoxication, self defense etc throw up complications that the court can't deal with? The courts aren't a yes/no tickbox affair like the MRP they can take situation into account just fine. And I'm curious as to what mitigating circumstances you think there were that allows bugg to knock mills out?

Did i say there were mitigating circumstances in the Bugg hit? No, I said he deserved a lot of weeks.

You've obviously got a chip on your shoulder about all of this for some reason. I suggest you perhaps go join an advocacy group for violence where you can do some actual good, instead of wailing on BigFooty.