Too much personality

[PieLebo87]

I've been thinking, and one thing I've noticed about the Collingwood players is that there is too much of it around at the club. Its great for club morale to have that sort of thing, but it gets in the way of consistent performances. Who is a no-frills footballer at Collingwood, and who is all personality?

Players like Didak, Davis, Maxwell, Harry O, Jack, Wellingham ect. have personality. Where-as there are players like Ball, Toovey, Sidebottom, Beams, Lockyer and Jolly who are no-frills types.

I don't want to start an argument, but to be honest, I'd rather see less personality and more football doing the talking. We've yet to win a Premiership with this group, yet they seem to be more flamboyant than a Geelong or even a Hawthorn side thats won flags in the last few years.

Theres nothing quite like the class of a Luke Ball, or Steele Sidebottom, who go out there, and just do the job, without showing all the extravagence (sp?) of a Davis, or Didak, who can be cheeky or over-celebrate a goal.

Do you agree or disagree?

PS: Don't turn this into an issue of preference between robots and having character. I'm talking about the need for some Collingwood players to realise we have nothing to be cocky about, or celebrate, because as great as it might be to be playing for the Magpies, it means nothing without having a Premiership medalian around the neck. With all due respect to the careers of Leon Davis and Alan Didak, but it will mean nothing to me in 10 years time if they didn't win us a Premiership, because all that character, and finger-wagging will have been point-less.

 

[Optimax]

Yeah I want all our players to play like robots and show absolutely no emotion Ivan drago style.

/sarcasm

what an inane and odd thread

 

[mattys123]

Say what?

 

[absy]

o__O

 

[PieLebo87]

Yeah I want all our players to play like robots and show absolutely no emotion Ivan drago style.

/sarcasm

what an inane and odd thread

Opti, instead of constantly cracking the shits about what other people have to say, how about fully reading whats being said.

PS: Don't turn this into an issue of preference between robots and having character. I'm talking about the need for some Collingwood players to realise we have nothing to be cocky about, or celebrate, because as great as it might be to be playing for the Magpies, it means nothing without having a Premiership medalian around the neck. With all due respect to the careers of Leon Davis and Alan Didak, but it will mean nothing to me in 10 years time if they didn't win us a Premiership, because all that character, and finger-wagging will have been point-less.

Say what?

Matty, what I'm saying is that players like Didak and Davis, and others mentioned, go about their footy as if they're already premiership players, or players that are absolutely elite and flawless, when judging their goal-kicking celebrations, or when having a lighter moment on the field. I don't mind it, but it does get annoying when year after year, we have these players doing these things, and year after year, we don't come home with a flag.

Stevie J has every right to do what a Davis or Didak does, because he has helped his side win 2 Premierships.

Football is about winning Premierships. THEN you can act like you're king dick, and celebrate goals however way you'd like.

An example, you look at a Luke Ball, and compare him to an Alan Didak, who do you respect more? Now tell me why.

 

[Porkaspies09]

Goo the pies!!!!!!!!!

 

[Optimax]

In a less smart assy response, players play their best when they allowed to play in their natural way, be it with flair (Thomas), arrogance (didak), high end work rate (trav) laconic laxidasical (pendlebury, wellers, Fraser), industrious (ball swan tooves)

saying players shouldn't play with their personaility coming out is almost trying to take a natural advantage out of a side, just won't happen, certainly won't help and is silly to try too IMO

 

[Optimax]

Bucks played with an air of arrogance
aker was a douchebag long before brownlows and premierships
ever asked Garry Lyon how good he was?
Ablett snr barely rocked up to pre season nay any training, didn't know his teammates names, didn't care any, knew he was great and played like it
Carey believes his arrogance and aura was one of his greatest on field weapons

the best sides are arrogant, and abrasive they don't become this after becoming great, they are arrogant, abrasive, jerk offish and use it as motivation to be the best.

******ing your players natural personaility on games is an epically quick way to fail

 

[PieLebo87]

In a less smart assy response, players play their best when they allowed to play in their natural way, be it with flair (Thomas), arrogance (didak), high end work rate (trav) laconic laxidasical (pendlebury, wellers, Fraser), industrious (ball swan tooves)

But I'm not saying they should change the way they play the game, I'm saying, their attitude, on the field, should change.

How come after a Davis goal, or a Didak goal, there has to be some sort of showpony celebration? What have they achieved but a goal?

I say go for your life if its in the dying seconds of a game, and you've just put the side infront, and its raw emotion, or you've just kicked the sealing goal to put the Pies into a Prelim, but not every second goal you kick in a home and away game.

I don't think some of these more 'arrogant/flashy' type players have anything to be arrogant or flashy about yet. When they've helped the Collingwood football club win a Premierships, and given us supporters (who don't have careers, we support this football club for life) something after bleeding for this club, then they can be as arrogant and flashy as they like.

As I've said before. This game is about the holy grail, the ultimate prize, a Premiership.

Until then, look at the way a Steele Sidebottom or Luke Ball goes about their game, or after they kick a goal. Then have abit of a Leon or Dids moment when you're a reigning Premier.

 

[Optimax]

Yes but some players realise they have an extra role in boosting team morale, if we are 10 goals down then I agree don't celebrate.

But in a close game, end of a good bit of play use it to fire your team mares up, get some energy into the crowd and flow with it. Why do you think it's so important to silence a parochial interstate crowd?

Fev at Carlton for example he sent a buzz through the crowd, he's done nothing but due to his arrogance and want to show off he would lift himself, the crowd and the team, daicos was the same with us, Dermott at hawthorn, BT with us, **** even Jeff farmer at the height if his powers was a master at it.

 

[PieLebo87]

Bucks played with an air of arrogance

Bucks is one of two of the best Collingwood midfielders in the last 30 years

aker was a douchebag long before brownlows and premierships

Aker was a freak who won 3 Premierships, and no, it wasn't long before he won flags.

Ablett snr barely rocked up to pre season nay any training, didn't know his teammates names, didn't care any, knew he was great and played like it

Top 3 best player to ever play the game, he'd be forgiven for it.

Carey believes his arrogance and aura was one of his greatest on field weapons

One of, if not, the best CHF ever.

Now tell me, which Collingwood player at the moment with personality has a right to act the way they do? What have Leon or Dids achieved in their careers? Are they even elite footballers?

(Didak has become an elite footballer, funnily enough, it happened once he stopped all the messing around off-field, and the arrogant crap on it)

 

[PieLebo87]

Fev at Carlton for example he sent a buzz through the crowd, he's done nothing but due to his arrogance and want to show off he would lift himself, the crowd and the team, daicos was the same with us, Dermott at hawthorn, BT with us, **** even Jeff farmer at the height if his powers was a master at it.

You're pretty much helping my point Opti.

Fevola is the best FF in the AFL, and a genuine match-winner who has consistently won games of footy of his own boot, compared to any Collingwood player.

Peter Daicos and Dermott Brereton will go down as all time greats and PREMIERSHIP PLAYERS.

Now tell me, who'll remember Jeff Farmer in 20 years as anything more than a cocky forward pocket, what did HE achieve? Nothing.

 

[Invigoration]

What player in the league doesn't celebrate after the kick a goal? I hardly think any of our boys go over the top?

Not really feeling this thread at all tbh. Some people need to take footy a little less seriously at the end of the day I think. Premierships aren't the be all and end all, or they certainly aren't for me. If they were the only reason I watched football, I probably wouldn't still be interested in it.

Enjoy it for what it is, ride the highs and lows and come out the other side smiling. Nobody is going to look back in 10 years and care what Leon Davis acted like after he celebrated a goal, and if they do, **** 'em. Davis is already a champion of this club, he doesn't need a premiership medal before he can justify enjoying himself and his time at Collingwood (same goes for Didak and co.).

AFL is already vastly more conservative than most other sports, nearly every player is humble in interviews and the like. They don't run around with their shirts over their heads after goals or do little dances in the goal square ala NFL players in the end zone. True characters in the game are few and fair between, why are we trying to quash the few we have?

If there were no characters in the AFL it'd be an extremely boring sport to follow. I take pride in the blokes that make our club unique, and I think the last thing they need is to be reigned in on a tighter leash then they already are.
I'd hate it if I couldn't see Heath Shaw acting like a larrikin on the Black and White show, or Dicky's little finger waggle or Swanny covered head to toe in tatts.
These are all part of the things that make our club great, and will continue to do so going forward.

It's all too PC in the end for me, why is everyone wanting to pander to the conservative popular opinion? It reminds me of some people taking issue with James Kelly pretending to sleep during the signing of the Cat's song.
Some people need to get a life ffs, it's just a game. How does it affect us if others think we are arrogant? People have been hating Collingwood for well over 100 years, acting more conformist on the field isn't going to undo that.

Regardless of what we do, we'll never please everyone. They hate us, cos they ain't us and they always will.

Go Pies

 

[Optimax]

Every single one of those players (yes including bucks) was an arrogant douchebag with off field misdemeanours and or issues before they became great, elite, a grade what ever you want to call them players.

In fact only one of them cleaned up off field and he sadly never won a flag.

What you are suggesting is that, arrogance can only come after success, when in reality a healthy dose of arrogance and douchebaggery is necessary for success to occur, both personal and team success.

 

[mdc]

I don't think some of these more 'arrogant/flashy' type players have anything to be arrogant or flashy about yet. When they've helped the Collingwood football club win a Premierships, and given us supporters (who don't have careers, we support this football club for life) something after bleeding for this club, then they can be as arrogant and flashy as they like.

....and here I thought the J.Cloke>>>Maxwell post in the other thread was going to be hard to beat.

 

[PieLebo87]

From our 1990 Premiership side, who was arrogant and a douchbag before winning the Premiership?

 

[Optimax]

From our 1990 Premiership side, who was arrogant and a douchbag before winning the Premiership?

Milane
Christian
A shaw
Taylor
monkhurst
Francis (he kicked someone in his first game)
Kelly
daicos
our coach Matthews

and I love each and every one of them, without the I'm better then you edge, the wild side so to speak we would not have over come on teams grand final demons to win

 

[Invigoration]

Who is an arrogant douchebag in our 2010 team?

 

[Optimax]

....and here I thought the J.Cloke>>>Maxwell post in the other thread was going to be hard to beat.

No no mdc that was just dumb, no one of sound mind could believe it.

This topic, this needs some debate

 

[PieLebo87]

Milane
Christian
A shaw
Taylor
monkhurst
Francis (he kicked someone in his first game)
Kelly
daicos
our coach Matthews

and I love each and every one of them, without the I'm better then you edge, the wild side so to speak we would not have over come on teams grand final demons to win

Some were larrikens who had fun outside of the football field, but how were any of them arrogant douchbags?

Even Leigh Matthews wasn't, and he could've been if he chose to.

 

[Optimax]

Who is an arrogant douchebag in our 2010 team?

Didak, swan and Heath are all ripper guys abd great footballers but they are up themselves in epic levels lmao

 

[mdc]

This topic, this needs some debate

I was referring about the assertion that supporters supposedly "bleed for the club".

 

[Optimax]

Some were larrikens who had fun outside of the football field, but how were any of them arrogant douchbags?

Even Leigh Matthews wasn't, and he could've been if he chose to.

I'm using neither term in a derogatory sense abd I believe this is what you are struggling with, nice English word they all had hubris, machismo to the Latin members of the board.

They knew they were good, if you didn't you just had to ask them, nice trait in a sportsmen led to our ultimate glory

 

[Optimax]

I was referring about the assertion that supporters supposedly "bleed for the club".

Oh right agree whole heartidly

 

[PieLebo87]

As I said in the OP, this isn't an argument about being a robot, or having some personality. Its about maintaining it and releasing it at the right time.

Who cares if a young Brad Dick has a massive smile on his face and is jumping up and down after kicking a goal, thats youthful exuberance, thats contagious, and helps the team morale. I said earlier, its fine to celebrate a goal when a game is on the line, and emotions are flowing.

Have a look at a Steele Sidebottom. Is he without a personality or character? No. Would you classify him as a robot? No. Would you respect him, as a person, more than Didak? Yes.

The difference is what I'm talking about.

I said, do not turn this into an argument between robots or not being robots, because thats not what I'm arguing about.

As I've said previously. Who do you respect more? Luke Ball? Or Leon Davis? Why?

Again, thats the difference I'm talking about.

Football wouldn't be any less exciting with 22 Luke Balls, Alan Tooveys, Steele Sidebottoms or Dayne Beams. At least these types of players don't give of the perception they think they're God's gift.