Too much personality

[mdc]

Dayne Beams might be the most arrogant 2nd-round pick in the history of the league. And like Opti, I mean that in a good sense.

 

[buzzbuzz]

Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree.

 

[mattys123]

Ok, I get more what you are talking about now, but isn't this really the responsibility of the coaches to "control" the emotion and the way players use that emotion within a game.

But I believe this comes back to the "natural emotions" and outward "shows" that players put on, both in games and out.

When a player arrives at a footy club, all you can do is "correct" some problems with their approach and emotional output, you can't really change that person as a whole.

Thus, as I said, doesn't this really all fall back on the Coaching staff and the football department to ensure the correct amount of "personality" is released, especially during games, and tailor an individual approach to each player.

 

[PieLebo87]

You guys obviously aren't understanding me.

Dayne Beams might be the most arrogant 2nd rounder, but he doesn't strut around on the footy field and show it. He knows his place. He knows he hasn't achieved anything yet to act like it.

Leon Davis and Alan Didak do. But what have they achieved?

I'm using neither term in a derogatory sense abd I believe this is what you are struggling with, nice English word they all had hubris, machismo to the Latin members of the board.

They knew they were good, if you didn't you just had to ask them, nice trait in a sportsmen led to our ultimate glory

I know you weren't Opti, but they didn't do it on a footy field before 1990. They looked after their own, but they didn't act the way some Collingwood players do today.

 

[PieLebo87]

I was referring about the assertion that supporters supposedly "bleed for the club".

Are you serious???

So you're telling me if you play for Collingwood, you bleed more for the footy club than some supporters?

You're saying a Collingwood Premiership, or a Collingwood lose would mean more to a Nick Davis than a Collingwood supporter of 40-50 years?

Get off it, seriously.

 

[mdc]

You guys obviously aren't understanding me.

Dayne Beams might be the most arrogant 2nd rounder, but he doesn't strut around on the footy field and show it. He knows his place. He knows he hasn't achieved anything yet to act like it.

Oh please, Dayne Beams had a pimp strut going in his rookie season.

In any case, we're understanding you fine. We're just disagreeing with both your assumptions and your conclusion.

There've been 100's of non-premiership players who've celebrated more fervently than anyone on our team, and who've then gone on to win the flag. There've also been 100's of guys who've kept it low-key and accomplished SFA.

As was pointed out very early in the thread, any time you try to temper your natural emotions/reactions on the field, your team will only be worse for it.

 

[PieLebo87]

And for your information, I'm in the middle of my Uni exams, I haven't opened a book, because I keep opening up BF, the Collingwood website, and just anything related to Collingwood.

I'm an idiot for it, I know I am, but its because I love this club more than anything else in my life. If you wanna turn around and tell me a lose hurts more to someone else, or a win should mean more to someone else, just because they're out there sweating and representing the club, then shame on you. I might only be 22, and never really experienced the heartache that an older Pies supporter has felt, but I'd feel deeply offended if someone wanted to turn around and tell me that Collingwood, the footy club, means more to all the Collingwood players, than it does to me, because I know that'd be a load of crap.

I do bleed for this footy club. I grew up playing footy hoping I could play for Collingwood. That didn't happen. I'm at Uni studying Marketing, and my dream is to get a job for Collingwood. My whole life revolves around Collingwood. If someone wants to turn around and say thats sad, or its just a sport, thats good for them. But there are some things that mean more to particular people than it does to others.

 

[Optimax]

Beams strutted around the footy field on debut, **** turning his back on gc to get drafted becausehe wanted senior goofy straight away is as arrogant as they came.

Millan pre 1990 was arrogance personified, shaw was the best sledger going from day dot, daicos showed no respect ever to his opponent because he was of no doubt he'd beat them with ease.

In short your assumptions are wrong and I disagree completely, look at every premiership team ever, cnuts every one, they were prior the flag and remained after

 

[doovies]

I've been thinking, and one thing I've noticed about the Collingwood players is that there is too much of it around at the club. Its great for club morale to have that sort of thing, but it gets in the way of consistent performances. Who is a no-frills footballer at Collingwood, and who is all personality?

Players like Didak, Davis, Maxwell, Harry O, Jack, Wellingham ect. have personality. Where-as there are players like Ball, Toovey, Sidebottom, Beams, Lockyer and Jolly who are no-frills types.

I don't want to start an argument, but to be honest, I'd rather see less personality and more football doing the talking. We've yet to win a Premiership with this group, yet they seem to be more flamboyant than a Geelong or even a Hawthorn side thats won flags in the last few years.

Theres nothing quite like the class of a Luke Ball, or Steele Sidebottom, who go out there, and just do the job, without showing all the extravagence (sp?) of a Davis, or Didak, who can be cheeky or over-celebrate a goal.

Do you agree or disagree?

PS: Don't turn this into an issue of preference between robots and having character. I'm talking about the need for some Collingwood players to realise we have nothing to be cocky about, or celebrate, because as great as it might be to be playing for the Magpies, it means nothing without having a Premiership medalian around the neck. With all due respect to the careers of Leon Davis and Alan Didak, but it will mean nothing to me in 10 years time if they didn't win us a Premiership, because all that character, and finger-wagging will have been point-less.

 

[Invigoration]

Would you respect him, as a person, more than Didak? Yes.

Speak for yourself. But who really cares? They are football players, nothing else.
I don't respect Sidebottom more than Didak simply because Sidey is a introverted country boy. And are we seriously judging who we'd respect more as a person, by the 120 minutes of time we see them spend on the football field each week? Please...

As I've said previously. Who do you respect more? Luke Ball? Or Leon Davis? Why?

Again, thats the difference I'm talking about.

Again, who cares? It's completely irrelevant.
And it wasn't really what you were talking about in your OP, you were talking about our player's being too arrogant for what they have currently achieved. You are straying away from that point here though.

If Luke Ball hadn't won a premiership, and Davis had (supposedly giving him something to be arrogant about) and they both continued to carry themselves they way the currently do, the answer to your question would still be the same. Leon Davis wouldn't suddenly be seen in a much greater light or anything, everyone would probably still say they respect Luke Ball more. That's just a product of they persona they each convey.

You guys obviously aren't understanding me.

Not agreeing with you does not equal not understanding you.

Dayne Beams might be the most arrogant 2nd rounder, but he doesn't strut around on the footy field and show it. He knows his place. He knows he hasn't achieved anything yet to act like it.

Leon Davis and Alan Didak do. But what have they achieved?

Dayne Beams has a swagger like no other, but it's fine, power to him.

Surely you remember that Nathan Buckley had the nickname FIGJAM in about his second year of football? So he had achieved sfa by that stage but was an arrogant as you could get. Didn't seem to cause him too many hassles down they track though.

 

[Rohan25]

turning his back on gc to get drafted becausehe wanted senior goofy..

Senor Goofy?

 

[PieLebo87]

Invig, when I talk about respect, I mean, on the footy field, as footballers, the way they go about it. Try understanding what I'm saying, if you say you do 'understand me, but you're just disagreeing'.

 

[doovies]

As I said in the OP, this isn't an argument about being a robot, or having some personality. Its about maintaining it and releasing it at the right time.

Who cares if a young Brad Dick has a massive smile on his face and is jumping up and down after kicking a goal, thats youthful exuberance, thats contagious, and helps the team morale. I said earlier, its fine to celebrate a goal when a game is on the line, and emotions are flowing.

Have a look at a Steele Sidebottom. Is he without a personality or character? No. Would you classify him as a robot? No. Would you respect him, as a person, more than Didak? Yes.

The difference is what I'm talking about.

I said, do not turn this into an argument between robots or not being robots, because thats not what I'm arguing about.

As I've said previously. Who do you respect more? Luke Ball? Or Leon Davis? Why?

Again, thats the difference I'm talking about.

Football wouldn't be any less exciting with 22 Luke Balls, Alan Tooveys, Steele Sidebottoms or Dayne Beams. At least these types of players don't give of the perception they think they're God's gift.

Who says anyon respects steele sidebootom more as a person than didak. Seeing as i doubt you know either of them its a stupid statement. This whole thread doesnt make sense. So dick is alowed to celebrate and lift the team but didak and davis cant? btw if we had 22 luke balls, the game would be much lesss exciting. What's footy without flair and dash and charachter?

 

[Optimax]

Who says anyon respects steele sidebootom more as a person than didak. Seeing as i doubt you know either of them its a stupid statement. This whole thread doesnt make sense. So dick is alowed to celebrate and lift the team but didak and davis cant? btw if we had 22 luke balls, the game would be much lesss exciting. What's footy without flair and dash and charachter?

I believe it's called the Sydney swans football club circa 2005/2006

 

[Invigoration]

Invig, when I talk about respect, I mean, on the footy field, as footballers, the way they go about it. Try understanding what I'm saying, if you say you do 'understand me, but you're just disagreeing'.

How can you be talking about respect on the football field if you used Sidebottom as an example over Didak?

Who would respect Sidey over Didak on the football field? I respect Didak immensely more than Sidebottom as a footballer at this stage, how could anyone not?

And I mean, you said "as a person", it's hard not for that to be taken as meaning... well... as a person.


I know the point you are trying to make and I think using Jeff Farmer was a good example, I just don't agree with it. Leon Davis and Alan Didak will both deservedly be remembered as champions of this club, with or without a premiership. 100% of Magpie supporters will respect them wholeheartedly for their contribution to the club, they'll be forever held in a high esteem by the Collingwood Football Club and it's fans.

Will others outside of Collingwood respect them as much? Of course not, but does it matter? Not really...
It's the same issue Stephen Milne is encountering at the moment actually, he is obviously never going to be respected as highly outside of St.Kilda as he is inside because of the person he is. He is a player people love to hate.
But if you were truly gauging honest opinion on him, he'll usually be held in a pretty high regard, at the end of the day his record speaks for itself, just as it does for Davis and Didak.

 

[PieLebo87]

Who says anyon respects steele sidebootom more as a person than didak. Seeing as i doubt you know either of them its a stupid statement. This whole thread doesnt make sense. So dick is alowed to celebrate and lift the team but didak and davis cant? btw if we had 22 luke balls, the game would be much lesss exciting. What's footy without flair and dash and charachter?

I meant as footballers, not as individuals of society. I didn't term it correctly.

Yeah, because the kid is genuinely excited, and he is a youngster, celebrating, where-as with Didak and Davis, most of the time, they're just being cocky about their achievements.

Flair and dash isn't part of this discussion, where did that come from? I'm talking about the way they conduct themselves as footballers. I'd much rather 22 Luke Balls. I've never seen Luke Ball over-celebrate a goal, or act as though he is better than others when he hasn't won a Premiership.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Brent Crosswell was one of the ultimate personalities of the game, a guy who served under Barassi at 2 clubs, and thought much of the hype in the rooms was bullshit. For instance, Barrassi expecting players to back in to packs without fearing for their own safety was absurd to Crosswell. He was a great showman on the ground but also a fantastic player in tough games. He also had intelligence and a healthy amount of scepticism.

There's nothing wrong with personalities, even a bit of arrogance. Everybody is expected to be the same these days and there are not enough individuals.

Collingwood players get lots of media coverage so their personalities are more exposed than players of other clubs. Vive le difference I say.

 

[PieLebo87]

How can you be talking about respect on the football field if you used Sidebottom as an example over Didak?

Who would respect Sidey over Didak on the football field? I respect Didak immensely more than Sidebottom as a footballer at this stage, how could anyone not?

And I mean, you said "as a person", it's hard not for that to be taken as meaning... well... as a person.

I didn't word it right, my bad.

I disagree with you, I respect Steele as a footballer more than Didak, because of the way he carries himself on a footy field. Why do you think so many opposition supporters hate Davis and Didak? Because as good as they may be, they haven't achieved shit, yet act as though they're 2-time Brownlow medalists with Premierships.

I'd rather see someone be humble like Steele or Ball on a footy field, thats what I mean.

 

[Jabso]

I agree. Footy ball players too much personally. We must remain focus, we must destroy opposition and go back to commune for efficient Soviet Russia meal of iron and vitamin capsules.

 

[The Panther]

Most of the top sportsman in the world have a streak of arrogance, it's what seperates them from being good to great sportsman. Have a look at Lance Armstrong for an example of that.

Sidebottom at heart is still a country kid playing for Shep United. Didak on the other hand was born and breed on the Port Adelaide way & yes, sometimes his arrogance annoys me but more often than not, it is what makes him an A Grader.

 

[PieLebo87]

Brent Crosswell was one of the ultimate personalities of the game, a guy who served under Barassi at 2 clubs, and thought much of the hype in the rooms was bullshit. For instance, Barrassi expecting players to back in to packs without fearing for their own safety was absurd to Crosswell. He was a great showman on the ground but also a fantastic player in tough games. He also had intelligence and a healthy amount of scepticism.

There's nothing wrong with personalities, even a bit of arrogance. Everybody is expected to be the same these days and there are not enough individuals.

Geeeezus Christ, is anyone gonna actually understand what I'm saying? I NEVER SAID THERE WAS ANYTHNG WRONG WITH HAVING A PERSONALITY, as long as theres not too much of it when you've achieved jack shit. I don't care if you want to be a showpony or not, just have the credentials behind it first!

Theres nothing worse than seeing someone like Milne, who hasn't done shit in their career in finals act as though they're a messiah. I'd rather see a Jarman (97 GF) walk as if they're king dick, because at least they've done something to prove they deserve to.

Seriously, if you're going to just talk about personalities, and not get my point, don't bother, its starting to annoy me how many times I'm explaining myself.

 

[Optimax]

You pl that's where your argument falls down completely, if you run out onto a football field, line up on your man and your first thought is he's better then me, I'll get smashed abd can't beat I'll gaurntee you will have your ass handed to you every single time.

It doesn't matter who you are on who you play on, on your day you can beat them and will beat them, and until later notice it is always your day.

Come our next match v st.kilda or Geelong if any of players go out their thinking I haven't won a premiership, their better then me, I'll personally pull them from the field it's a defeatist attitude and will always ALWAYS lead to defeat.

What all your posts are advocating is a defeatist mentally that will always result in defeat, respect sure but no one is ever better on any day anyone can win

 

[Wooljay]

In Soviet Russia, finger wags you!

Srsly weird thread, who cares if they don't have any supposed 'reason' for being arrogant and sure of themselves, it's a ray of sunshine when someone does something other than dragging the team line. Light it up, get fired up, do something interesting.

 

[PieLebo87]

Most of the top sportsman in the world have a streak of arrogance, it's what seperates them from being good to great sportsman. Have a look at Lance Armstrong for an example of that.

EXACTLY, they're the top sportsmen! Didak and Davis are far from the two best players in the AFL though!

Sidebottom at heart is still a country kid playing for Shep United. Didak on the other hand was born and breed on the Port Adelaide way & yes, sometimes his arrogance annoys me but more often than not, it is what makes him an A Grader.

No, what makes him an A grader is his disposal and footy nous, not his arrogance.

In bold.

 

[Optimax]

In bold.

Sigh being an AFL player makes you one of the countries top sportsmen, they don't train daily because their ammos