Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Oscar McDonald? Seems to be on the outs at Melbourne and they still have Lever and May to come back.

23 yrs old. 196cm, 100kg. Was top 10 in the league for spoils last year.

Worth our 3rd Rounder (early 40's at the moment)?
 
Can anyone deny that Taberner would have been a handy pickup? Wizard17 I'm looking at you?

Was arguably BOG in the upset v GWS and has been solid all year, should have had 5 in successive weeks but ended with 3 both games.
 

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WallyStringhaus said:
Oscar McDonald? Seems to be on the outs at Melbourne and they still have Lever and May to come back.

23 yrs old. 196cm, 100kg. Was top 10 in the league for spoils last year.

Worth our 3rd Rounder (early 40's at the moment)?
Click to expand...
Declan Hamilton, Bailey Dale and Caleb Daniel all drafted before Oscar McDonald, one day I will wake up and
not see blokes being suggested as trade targets that we should have drafted in the first place and don't
start me on Luke Ryan perfect Matthew Boyd replacement I spent draft night thinking Ryan is still on the
board all night.
 
Does Bevo play a big role in your recruiting? If not, i reckon criticism of him is a bit harsh because i don't really rate your recent list management decisions (no offence)...and Bevo is being hamstrung by those decisions (though agree some decisions are baffling, like picking the 2 debutants over some others).

I've also noticed as an outsider that the side seems to be lacking speedy, line breaking mids and has a few too many inside mid types that are very similar.

The other one is the KPP and ruck stocks.

Regarding ruck, i guess there was the Trengrove option but reckon the list manager should have gotten another ruck in on top...was Preuss a chance? He did move to a Melbourne-based club. Surely he'd choose dogs over Melb if given the opportunity to be no.1 ruck? He's physical and can kick goals.

Personally don't like what the list manager has done with key forward and key defensive stocks. Schache came at OK price i guess and IS a no.2 draft pick...but there were some obvious issues with him that possibly no coach could fix...early days though. Could come good. Must be frustrating for Bevo to not be able to select Boyd...he's supposed to be the big forward you build your forward line around.

Cordy, Wood, Roberts, Young...no offence but doesn't seem like a quality list of KPD's and it's also not a very long one. Am i missing anyone? None of them are even proper KPD's like a full back type, except maybe Roberts. More third tall types. I'd say that's pretty poor recruiting and again, Bevo doesn't have much to pick from there he can feel good about.
 
Farktherest said:
Does Bevo play a big role in your recruiting? If not, i reckon criticism of him is a bit harsh because i don't really rate your recent list management decisions (no offence)...and Bevo is being hamstrung by those decisions (though agree some decisions are baffling, like picking the 2 debutants over some others).

I've also noticed as an outsider that the side seems to be lacking speedy, line breaking mids and has a few too many inside mid types that are very similar.

The other one is the KPP and ruck stocks.

Regarding ruck, i guess there was the Trengrove option but reckon the list manager should have gotten another ruck in on top...was Preuss a chance? He did move to a Melbourne-based club. Surely he'd choose dogs over Melb if given the opportunity to be no.1 ruck? He's physical and can kick goals.

Personally don't like what the list manager has done with key forward and key defensive stocks. Schache came at OK price i guess and IS a no.2 draft pick...but there were some obvious issues with him that possibly no coach could fix...early days though. Could come good. Must be frustrating for Bevo to not be able to select Boyd...he's supposed to be the big forward you build your forward line around.

Cordy, Wood, Roberts, Young...no offence but doesn't seem like a quality list of KPD's and it's also not a very long one. Am i missing anyone? None of them are even proper KPD's like a full back type, except maybe Roberts. More third tall types. I'd say that's pretty poor recruiting and again, Bevo doesn't have much to pick from there he can feel good about.
Click to expand...

Mate Boyd and Schache were meant to be our KPFs, with Redpath as backup. Red ret due to injury and Boyd is injured.

Naughton was meant to be our main KPD but is forced fwd. Naughton is a generational talent. 4th in our B And F in his first yr as a KPD. Morris was meant to support him. But is injured. Morris is still near elite. Cordy is a third tall. Wood should take a 4th fwd but plays KP due to injuries. We also had another quality KPD in Marcus Adams barely get on the park and leave due to injuries last yr.

So yeah mate your plans go to s**t sometimes due to injuries. Or players like No 2 and 1 pick KPFs not developing as expected. s**t happens. But its not like we haven't recruited a spine.
 
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Re list balance, almost half of our list are forwards (FT or PT), according to the coaches.

Boyd, Schache, Dickson, Lloyd, Gowers, Dale, Greene, Cavarra.

Bontempelli, McLean, Dunkley, Jong, Liberatore, Trengove, West.

Naughton, Lynch, Webb, Richards.

Farktherest said:
Does Bevo play a big role in your recruiting? If not, i reckon criticism of him is a bit harsh because i don't really rate your recent list management decisions (no offence)...and Bevo is being hamstrung by those decisions (though agree some decisions are baffling, like picking the 2 debutants over some others).

I've also noticed as an outsider that the side seems to be lacking speedy, line breaking mids and has a few too many inside mid types that are very similar.

The other one is the KPP and ruck stocks.

Regarding ruck, i guess there was the Trengrove option but reckon the list manager should have gotten another ruck in on top...was Preuss a chance? He did move to a Melbourne-based club. Surely he'd choose dogs over Melb if given the opportunity to be no.1 ruck? He's physical and can kick goals.

Personally don't like what the list manager has done with key forward and key defensive stocks. Schache came at OK price i guess and IS a no.2 draft pick...but there were some obvious issues with him that possibly no coach could fix...early days though. Could come good. Must be frustrating for Bevo to not be able to select Boyd...he's supposed to be the big forward you build your forward line around.

Cordy, Wood, Roberts, Young...no offence but doesn't seem like a quality list of KPD's and it's also not a very long one. Am i missing anyone? None of them are even proper KPD's like a full back type, except maybe Roberts. More third tall types. I'd say that's pretty poor recruiting and again, Bevo doesn't have much to pick from there he can feel good about.
Click to expand...

The problem isn’t the list, it’s the 22 that gets selected and the way they’re utilised. We shouldn’t be losing to far less talented teams like Carlton (no offence) or Gold Caost. There’s a reason the reaction has been so strong this week, and it’s because we lost to a clearly lesser opponent for reasons that were avoidable.
 
lifesaver said:
Anyone at the crows we could trade Williams for? He will most likely request a trade at seasons end to the crows. Would be nice for him to find form beforehand to up his value.
Not fussed if you shoot me down. I have been right about him b4 btw for some reason :)

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

He'd be worth a pick in the 60s currently. Good luck to him.
 
Farktherest said:
Does Bevo play a big role in your recruiting? If not, i reckon criticism of him is a bit harsh because i don't really rate your recent list management decisions (no offence)...and Bevo is being hamstrung by those decisions (though agree some decisions are baffling, like picking the 2 debutants over some others).

I've also noticed as an outsider that the side seems to be lacking speedy, line breaking mids and has a few too many inside mid types that are very similar.

The other one is the KPP and ruck stocks.

Regarding ruck, i guess there was the Trengrove option but reckon the list manager should have gotten another ruck in on top...was Preuss a chance? He did move to a Melbourne-based club. Surely he'd choose dogs over Melb if given the opportunity to be no.1 ruck? He's physical and can kick goals.

Personally don't like what the list manager has done with key forward and key defensive stocks. Schache came at OK price i guess and IS a no.2 draft pick...but there were some obvious issues with him that possibly no coach could fix...early days though. Could come good. Must be frustrating for Bevo to not be able to select Boyd...he's supposed to be the big forward you build your forward line around.

Cordy, Wood, Roberts, Young...no offence but doesn't seem like a quality list of KPD's and it's also not a very long one. Am i missing anyone? None of them are even proper KPD's like a full back type, except maybe Roberts. More third tall types. I'd say that's pretty poor recruiting and again, Bevo doesn't have much to pick from there he can feel good about.
Click to expand...
The troll is even in our list management thread. How long has your list build been again?
 
ScragCity said:
He'd be worth a pick in the 60s currently. Good luck to him.
Click to expand...
I too think he will request a trade back to SA and it will be yet another occasion where we don't get full value for one of ours. He has a lot of potential which we saw last season. Something's not quite right with him and I think it is as much attitude as it is form.
 
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VitalDread said:
Only thing i have really heard is Gia pushing for Gardner to be selected

Wouldn't surprise me if our trail players are our 19 year old scary players
Click to expand...
He played back at Geelong didn't he?

If we're not going to play Fletch and Lewis Young isn't ready we desperately need someone back there.
 
Farktherest said:
Does Bevo play a big role in your recruiting? If not, i reckon criticism of him is a bit harsh because i don't really rate your recent list management decisions (no offence)...and Bevo is being hamstrung by those decisions (though agree some decisions are baffling, like picking the 2 debutants over some others).

I've also noticed as an outsider that the side seems to be lacking speedy, line breaking mids and has a few too many inside mid types that are very similar.

The other one is the KPP and ruck stocks.

Regarding ruck, i guess there was the Trengrove option but reckon the list manager should have gotten another ruck in on top...was Preuss a chance? He did move to a Melbourne-based club. Surely he'd choose dogs over Melb if given the opportunity to be no.1 ruck? He's physical and can kick goals.

Personally don't like what the list manager has done with key forward and key defensive stocks. Schache came at OK price i guess and IS a no.2 draft pick...but there were some obvious issues with him that possibly no coach could fix...early days though. Could come good. Must be frustrating for Bevo to not be able to select Boyd...he's supposed to be the big forward you build your forward line around.

Cordy, Wood, Roberts, Young...no offence but doesn't seem like a quality list of KPD's and it's also not a very long one. Am i missing anyone? None of them are even proper KPD's like a full back type, except maybe Roberts. More third tall types. I'd say that's pretty poor recruiting and again, Bevo doesn't have much to pick from there he can feel good about.
Click to expand...
I have no idea why we didn’t go hard at Preuss. He was exactly what we needed short-mid term and I would’ve thought cash wise, we’d have been able to throw more at him than the Demons.

I guess the problem is Bevo hates ruckman. We’ve had a long time under him to bring at least a semi-decent stop-gap ruckman and haven’t done it.
 
Caleb Daniel is an interesting one. Out of contract but would have some decent value but a player I think we shouldn’t move heaven and earth to keep.

I think some teams would value him as a top 25 pick and if you asked me would you rather lose Caleb for a top 25 pick or lose bailey Williams for a pick outside the top 40 then I’d keep Bailey.

Caleb’s limitations as a player really have come to bare. Obviously his height when playing as the deepest defender is costing us goals. He isn’t quick enough nor a tackling beast to play small forward and I think if played in the middle (despite his excellent footy brain) he would add to a glaring issue we have, which is that far too many of our forward entries are shallow. Our goal kicking sucks in comparison to other teams but how many times are these shots on goal from almost the 50m arc.

Whilst not the ball magnet that Caleb is, Williams should be the one in his role, stronger, quicker, taller and a more penetrating kick. Especially if we continue to play a small KPD structure you can’t have a 168cm player down there. It only compounds the problem.

If Caleb helped us land a good player/pick that helped us get a big defender or a elite small forward I’d pull the trigger.
 
Dogsman16 said:
Caleb Daniel is an interesting one. Out of contract but would have some decent value but a player I think we shouldn’t move heaven and earth to keep.

I think some teams would value him as a top 25 pick and if you asked me would you rather lose Caleb for a top 25 pick or lose bailey Williams for a pick outside the top 40 then I’d keep Bailey.

Caleb’s limitations as a player really have come to bare. Obviously his height when playing as the deepest defender is costing us goals. He isn’t quick enough nor a tackling beast to play small forward and I think if played in the middle (despite his excellent footy brain) he would add to a glaring issue we have, which is that far too many of our forward entries are shallow. Our goal kicking sucks in comparison to other teams but how many times are these shots on goal from almost the 50m arc.

Whilst not the ball magnet that Caleb is, Williams should be the one in his role, stronger, quicker, taller and a more penetrating kick. Especially if we continue to play a small KPD structure you can’t have a 168cm player down there. It only compounds the problem.

If Caleb helped us land a good player/pick that helped us get a big defender or a elite small forward I’d pull the trigger.
Click to expand...
I understand your argument but there is also a strong case for not considering to trade Caleb to anybody.
This season his disposal numbers are much better than any previous season - 27 per game - ranked 29 of all AFL players
This season is ranked 13 for disposal efficiency of all AFL players - 22 per game.
This season his disposal efficiency percentage is 81% which is the 4th best Bulldog player behind Wood, Suckling and, wait for it - Dunkley.
Moving away from the stats: Caleb cleans up so much of other players mess (mistakes) and starts a lot of movement from the back half.
He is only 22 with even more upside IMO.
Keep in mind that when first recruited no one in their right mind would predict he could play a half back role but here he is playing that role very competently.
I acknowledge his lack of height and being caught out by trying to defend against tall opponents but this is most noticeable when the following occurs:
1. turnovers 2. speedy opponents bringing the ball in without any pressure from our midfield and half forwards.
The fact that he seems to be the designated kicker from full back is a bit perplexing but that is the role assigned to him by the coach. I would rather it be Suckling or JJ who have more penetration but again that's the coach's choice.
Some have suggested using Caleb as a deep crumbing forward and there may be a strong case for this but that won't happen until the backline is properly structured with the right players in positions who can do a job better than Caleb.
Caleb is a player we should re-sign because he is highly skilled and consistently good - traits which are uncommon in our team. He has obvious weaknesses as you stated but IMO these are more than compensated for by his strengths.
If we are looking for leverage to recruit a taller player or a small forward as you suggest, we have plenty of other trade candidates.
 
Dogsman16 said:
Caleb Daniel is an interesting one. Out of contract but would have some decent value but a player I think we shouldn’t move heaven and earth to keep.

I think some teams would value him as a top 25 pick and if you asked me would you rather lose Caleb for a top 25 pick or lose bailey Williams for a pick outside the top 40 then I’d keep Bailey.

Caleb’s limitations as a player really have come to bare. Obviously his height when playing as the deepest defender is costing us goals. He isn’t quick enough nor a tackling beast to play small forward and I think if played in the middle (despite his excellent footy brain) he would add to a glaring issue we have, which is that far too many of our forward entries are shallow. Our goal kicking sucks in comparison to other teams but how many times are these shots on goal from almost the 50m arc.

Whilst not the ball magnet that Caleb is, Williams should be the one in his role, stronger, quicker, taller and a more penetrating kick. Especially if we continue to play a small KPD structure you can’t have a 168cm player down there. It only compounds the problem.

If Caleb helped us land a good player/pick that helped us get a big defender or a elite small forward I’d pull the trigger.
Click to expand...
You know who went top 25 in Daniel's draft? Daniel McKenzie, Daniel Nielsen and Blaine Boekhorst.

I'd rather hold onto Daniel than a super speculative draft pick.
 
timtamWB said:
You know who went top 25 in Daniel's draft? Daniel McKenzie, Daniel Nielsen and Blaine Boekhorst.

I'd rather hold onto Daniel than a super speculative draft pick.
Click to expand...
Bingo - people tend to vastly overrate the value of draft picks.

That's without considering the age profile of our list means we should be holding and adding to our experienced player numbers, not reducing them.
There's also the cost of development for most players who take years to develop.
 
timtamWB said:
You know who went top 25 in Daniel's draft? Daniel McKenzie, Daniel Nielsen and Blaine Boekhorst.

I'd rather hold onto Daniel than a super speculative draft pick.
Click to expand...

That’s fair. But I’d be trying to use that pick for a player preferably.

With the new kick out rules I’m really surprised he was the player to be given kick in duties. If anything I think you want to be using a longer kick to gain the extra advantage that the new rule provides.

I just think he’s replaceable. To me his strengths don’t outweigh his flaws. Certainly with the small backline we have I think it’s been made to look even worse.

And I think he has value. Value that could assist us rectifying the positions of need.
 
Saints interested in both Tomlinson & Jack Martin..........for once I'd like to see our name linked to players who would drastically improve us
 
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