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Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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Mofra said:
Jets boy, yeah he'd be a fair chance but I doubt we'd want him. Not a need
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True, but I'm sure I read about him, or someone connected to his family, asking the Dogs to try to get him to us. Last year or the year before, maybe.

His grandfather played in the 54 premiership side, I think.
 
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I'd be surprised if we paid overs for Lobb even though he's having a good year. We're doing Freo a favour by helping them create cap room for Jackson and we have a great trade table relation with them. Also doesn't hurt to have Boyd and Bob on their end. Of course he's a leading goalkicker for a top 4 side and a ruck/fwd in his prime so I don't expect us to rip them off but I'm not worried.

Lobb/Naughton/Bruce is an excellent trio for us. It's also incredibly unlikely all 3 play every game for the season - when injuries happen (Or maybe Bruce just doesn't get form back) we then have Marra in line, and then we have Darcy after that. Marra can then probably take over for Bruce the year after.

I think it's some astute recruiting. We help Lobb get east, we help Freo, we solve our massive forward/2nd ruck issue that has been lingering for years.

We'd all like to see a gun KPD recruited but this is too good an opportunity. I like Marra and Darcy but our window is now, I don't want to rely on 20 year old KPPs. Whatever we get from those two in the next two years is a bonus. And yes, there's the chance that Marra bashes down the door and forces well discussed decisions to be made. But it's not guaranteed.

I think Lobb is the 'money' recruit for this year and we'll try very hard for Jones. And presumably not on big coin. Obviously just speculating but if we get Lobb + re-sign Dunks and Baz, even with shedding salary elsewhere, then we have to look for moneyball options for the backline (Like Jones. God forbid maybe a broken down Hamling). And I'm not so sure it's as simple as spend the money on a KPD and not Lobb like it's a choice - there's no guarantee one is available and also wants to come to us.
 
What scares me about Lobb is the rumoured 3/4y deal at 500k. And the potential road block that puts on Sam Darcy to develop into that exact role.

I'd prefer a cheaper and shorter term option that you can push into the 2s at no real risk to Darcy's development.

Think Sam Reid/Hayden Mclean from the Swans. Sam Day etc. Those cheaper types on shorter deals.

Because you either have Lobb playing seniors for the next 3 years and limiting to only one potential role as a defender. Or you have Darcy at somestage leapfrogging Lobb and 500k per year sitting in the 2s.

Sam Darcy is closer to a debut and senior games than we all think. He easily could be ready to play regular senior footy as early as next season.

i'd prefer to throw that deal at Logue and get Jones too. Defence is then sorted.
 

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LittleG said:
What is Sweet worth?

Appears a serviceable ruckman, who can compete at AFL without being a world beater. I expect him to explore his options this year and next year. Not sure where he will get a game but at his age he isn’t delist material.
Click to expand...
Pick Swap/Pick Upgrades
 
LittleG said:
What is Sweet worth?

Appears a serviceable ruckman, who can compete at AFL without being a world beater. I expect him to explore his options this year and next year. Not sure where he will get a game but at his age he isn’t delist material.
Click to expand...
West Coast asked about him last year. As a result we changed our one year contract to two year deal.
He's contracted until the end of 2023
 
LittleG said:
What is Sweet worth?

Appears a serviceable ruckman, who can compete at AFL without being a world beater. I expect him to explore his options this year and next year. Not sure where he will get a game but at his age he isn’t delist material.
Click to expand...
Look at Tom Campbell as his best analogue, both are plodding ruckman who offer nothing much other than their size and the niche of adequate ruck work. This will be enough for Sweet to almost certainly find a place on our or another teams list into the foreseeable future as cheap insurance. I'd bet almost anything that the subject of his somehow ongoing career will be a topic of conversation on this board or another until he is 30 years old. If he was a sub 190cm player he would've been spat out a long time ago.

His trade value would be negligible at best.

Mofra said:
West Coast asked about him last year. As a result we changed our one year contract to two year deal.
He's contracted until the end of 2023
Click to expand...

Im convinced that this rumour was completely blown out of proportion by his management who used it to play us. They were safe in the knowledge that should English get injured all we had to fall back on was a broken Steph Martin so they extracted an extra year out of what really should be single year extension's for a player of his limited skill set.

Not being able to land a backup ruckman last post-season was terrible list management on our behalf. However, it was excellent client management on theirs.
 
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Mofra said:
West Coast asked about him last year. As a result we changed our one year contract to two year deal.
He's contracted until the end of 2023
Click to expand...

Ruck depth is something we’ve lacked for a long time.

I don’t mind Sweet remaining on the list, even if Lobb comes in (won’t be around long term) and with Darcy coming along well. Sweet is depth and as we’ve seen previously, not having extra rucks around can hurt.

I just hope it’s not an emergency break glass we have to use too often moving forward.
 
doggies ftw said:
Who would we have an interest in from Giants? Big salary cap issues there
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Makes you wonder why they didn't make sure that Bobby Hill was granted his wish last year. He is probably only one small piece of the puzzle but surely if you're in such a squeeze and you have players like that wanting out, you let them walk to free up some cash for others.
 
Norm De Guerre said:
Look at Tom Campbell as his best analogue, both are plodding ruckman who offer nothing much other than their size and the niche of adequate ruck work. This will be enough for Sweet to almost certainly find a place on our or another teams list into the foreseeable future as cheap insurance. I'd bet almost anything that the subject of his somehow ongoing career will be a topic of conversation on this board or another until he is 30 years old. If he was a sub 190cm player he would've been spat out a long time ago.

His trade value would be negligible at best.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on your definition of negligible. The ruck market has been hot for years - the going rate for competent depth rucks last year was roughly a one-round pick upgrade for mid-round picks (e.g. 4th->3rd), and a couple spots for first-rounders (e.g. 14th-11th) and not many were as young as Sweet was, and hardly any were contracted IIRC.

If Lobb's coming over and we see Darcy as a ruck, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sweet used to alleviate some list space pressure while getting a reasonable return on investment for a rookie selection.

Not saying I would do it - but the market could be hotter than you'd think given last year.
 
Charlie Bucket said:
Ruck depth is something we’ve lacked for a long time.

I don’t mind Sweet remaining on the list, even if Lobb comes in (won’t be around long term) and with Darcy coming along well. Sweet is depth and as we’ve seen previously, not having extra rucks around can hurt.

I just hope it’s not an emergency break glass we have to use too often moving forward.
Click to expand...
Personally I think we're a ruckman short. Previously I was looking at a state league ruck/forward type (e.g. Ballendon) to add to our list. I'd still look to draft or rookie one this year, it's such a critical position to have thin depth in
 
Dogsman16 said:
What scares me about Lobb is the rumoured 3/4y deal at 500k. And the potential road block that puts on Sam Darcy to develop into that exact role.

I'd prefer a cheaper and shorter term option that you can push into the 2s at no real risk to Darcy's development.

Think Sam Reid/Hayden Mclean from the Swans. Sam Day etc. Those cheaper types on shorter deals.

Because you either have Lobb playing seniors for the next 3 years and limiting to only one potential role as a defender. Or you have Darcy at somestage leapfrogging Lobb and 500k per year sitting in the 2s.

Sam Darcy is closer to a debut and senior games than we all think. He easily could be ready to play regular senior footy as early as next season.

i'd prefer to throw that deal at Logue and get Jones too. Defence is then sorted.
Click to expand...
I'm not worried about Sam's development being stifled with Lobb coming across. I think Lobb is going to be a real asset for at least the next two years playing the second ruck/fwd role and Sam will get his chances across half back/half forward and when required due to injuries whilst he gets bigger/stronger. IMO his (Sams) biggest attributesat this point are his smarts which will get him games as he develops further. The other question we need to contemplate is what Big Tim does in 2 years when he becomes a free agent? Maybe the club already knows he's going back home and Lobb/Darcy will carry us beyond that point (short term).. Anyway good problem to have I guess :)
 

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True Dog said:
I'm not worried about Sam's development being stifled with Lobb coming across. I think Lobb is going to be a real asset for at least the next two years playing the second ruck/fwd role and Sam will get his chances across half back/half forward and when required due to injuries whilst he gets bigger/stronger. IMO his (Sams) biggest attributesat this point are his smarts which will get him games as he develops further. The other question we need to contemplate is what Big Tim does in 2 years when he becomes a free agent? Maybe the club already knows he's going back home and Lobb/Darcy will carry us beyond that point (short term).. Anyway good problem to have I guess :)
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I just don't see Bruce, a 31+ year old coming off an ACL, being a long term prospect. There will be plenty of opportunity for Darcy/Marra in coming years, even assuming we can get everyone on the paddock at the same time.
 
Mofra said:
Personally I think we're a ruckman short. Previously I was looking at a state league ruck/forward type (e.g. Ballendon) to add to our list. I'd still look to draft or rookie one this year, it's such a critical position to have thin depth in
Click to expand...

We’re definitely a ruckman short at the moment. But if Lobb comes in, within the next 12 months we’ll probably have 4 on the list that can play the role in different ways.

English, Lobb, Darcy and Sweet.

Will be an interesting off season. We could seriously tidy the whole list up with only a couple of smart acquisitions.
 
Not sure what North would demand for McKay. He is young enough to ask for a first plus more.
They really need senior players but we don’t really have any to give (except Wallis who has zero trade value). Perhaps they would take a second rounder and our future first? It’s always a risk of trading future picks BUT we need to get better now.


There are going to be some decent KPD drafted at our draft range BUT they would be 2+ years away from being able to play good quality AFL.
 
LittleG said:
Not sure what North would demand for McKay. He is young enough to ask for a first plus more.
They really need senior players but we don’t really have any to give (except Wallis who has zero trade value). Perhaps they would take a second rounder and our future first? It’s always a risk of trading future picks BUT we need to get better now.


There are going to be some decent KPD drafted at our draft range BUT they would be 2+ years away from being able to play good quality AFL.
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McKay would be fantastic - but whoever the new coach is at North would be negligent if they failed to retain him. If it is Clarkson, he might want a cleanout, but surely cleaning out dead wood, not their most reliable KPD who still has years to play.
 
LittleG said:
Not sure what North would demand for McKay. He is young enough to ask for a first plus more.
They really need senior players but we don’t really have any to give (except Wallis who has zero trade value). Perhaps they would take a second rounder and our future first? It’s always a risk of trading future picks BUT we need to get better now.


There are going to be some decent KPD drafted at our draft range BUT they would be 2+ years away from being able to play good quality AFL.
Click to expand...
He is a free agent at the end of 2023 so they’ll get pick #2 or #3 as compensation next year if they lose him*.

I don’t even think this years first plus next years first stacks up against a top 2-3 pick next year.

  • assumes North will be shit in 2023
  • assumes McKay gets a big contract
 

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doggiesin08 said:
He is a free agent at the end of 2023 so they’ll get pick #2 or #3 as compensation next year if they lose him*.

I don’t even think this years first plus next years first stacks up against a top 2-3 pick next year.

  • assumes North will be s**t in 2023
  • assumes McKay gets a big contract
Click to expand...
Next year projecting to be a good draft crop.
 
EES TARGETING KEY FORWARD AMID JACKSON CONCERNS

SEN’s Sam Edmund reports the Demons are “absolutely in the market” for key forward in this year’s trade period amid growing concerns that Luke Jackson will depart for Fremantle.

It’s widely tipped that the Dockers will secure the 20-year old on a long-term deal estimated to be worth close to $1 million per season

Edmund revealed the Dees have gone from “being supremely confident” of retaining the out-of-contract rising star to a “growing realisation” he’s set to request a move back to Western Australia.

And he posed if Rory Lobb, who’s been strongly linked with a move to the Western Bulldogs despite having a year to run his deal with the Dockers, could be a target for Melbourne.



Demons clash is a MUST win for Bulldogs

Demons clash is a MUST win for Bulldogs | 02:30

“They’ve tried and failed on a couple (tall forwards) already this year to get them on the hook,” Edmund said on SEN.
“I would’ve thought there’s a fair chance now that someone like Rory Lobb ends up in the red and blue next year.
“He wanted out of Fremantle for a year. Melbourne would appear to offer him that avenue. Luke Jackson goes, Rory Lobb comes in.”
 
I am a little bit surprised about the angst over Lobb from some sections on here.

We have:

One competent, capable ruckman - slightly prone to concussion - but extremely valuable around the ground and improving as a tap ruckman.
One younger, stop gap/break glass in case of emergency ruckman.
Stefan Martin - a deceased ruckman, sadly acquired two to three years too late.
Darcy - who may be anything or nothing as he hasn't played a senior game and taller players take longer to develop and thrive in the seniors.

Our one, potential dominant ruck - wants to ruck on a 80/20 basis and has indicated he will leave if he's forced to share (according to rumours).

So we need - a forward/ruck - who is comfortable with a 20/80 split in ruck and is good up forward.

So we have found a forward/ruck, who is 22nd in the goal kicking, a competent ruckman when required, willing to move across, willing to take a pay cut to do so, available, in the best form of his career, allows us to accommodate English's desires - and people are unhappy he's not the reincarnation of Gary Dempsey and Simon Beasley combined for some reason ???

Who else would you like ? Other options of a similar size to do a similar role that I can quickly think of are: King brothers, Chol (GCS), Marshall (Port), De Koning (Carlt), Thilthorpe (Adel), Casboult (GCS) or Daniher (Bris).

Which one of those are we prying free ??
 
TedDougChris said:
I am a little bit surprised about the angst over Lobb from some sections on here.

We have:

One competent, capable ruckman - slightly prone to concussion - but extremely valuable around the ground and improving as a tap ruckman.
One younger, stop gap/break glass in case of emergency ruckman.
Stefan Martin - a deceased ruckman, sadly acquired two to three years too late.
Darcy - who may be anything or nothing as he hasn't played a senior game and taller players take longer to develop and thrive in the seniors.

Our one, potential dominant ruck - wants to ruck on a 80/20 basis and has indicated he will leave if he's forced to share (according to rumours).

So we need - a forward/ruck - who is comfortable with a 20/80 split in ruck and is good up forward.

So we have found a forward/ruck, who is 22nd in the goal kicking, a competent ruckman when required, willing to move across, willing to take a pay cut to do so, available, in the best form of his career, allows us to accommodate English's desires - and people are unhappy he's not the reincarnation of Gary Dempsey and Simon Beasley combined for some reason ???

Who else would you like ? Other options of a similar size to do a similar role that I can quickly think of are: King brothers, Chol (GCS), Marshall (Port), De Koning (Carlt), Thilthorpe (Adel), Casboult (GCS) or Daniher (Bris).

Which one of those are we prying free ??
Click to expand...
Completely agree. We either need to recruit a first ruck and play English forward, or a competent key fwd/second ruck if English is first ruck. Given English himself/Bevo/the club reportedly don't see the first option as a viable one, then Lobb is one of a handful around the comp who could play the KPF/ruck role and he seems to be available for a relatively manageable salary. It would be negligent not to go after him.

What are the scenarios where he's not required/valuable? We somehow have all rucks/KPFs fit across the whole 2023 season, Bruce is chopping out forward effectively (and someone else back), JUH takes a leap and Darcy starts to come on quicker than the majority of young talls and establishes himself in the team? In that scenario we'll have massively lucked out and it won't matter that Lobb is just depth.

I suspect if he ends up at the dogs (and despite reporting that still feels to me like a big if, particularly if Jackson goes to Freo and Melbourne need to fill a KPF/ruck sized hole in their list), he'll be best 22 for us most of the time.
 
TedDougChris said:
I am a little bit surprised about the angst over Lobb from some sections on here.

We have:

One competent, capable ruckman - slightly prone to concussion - but extremely valuable around the ground and improving as a tap ruckman.
One younger, stop gap/break glass in case of emergency ruckman.
Stefan Martin - a deceased ruckman, sadly acquired two to three years too late.
Darcy - who may be anything or nothing as he hasn't played a senior game and taller players take longer to develop and thrive in the seniors.

Our one, potential dominant ruck - wants to ruck on a 80/20 basis and has indicated he will leave if he's forced to share (according to rumours).

So we need - a forward/ruck - who is comfortable with a 20/80 split in ruck and is good up forward.

So we have found a forward/ruck, who is 22nd in the goal kicking, a competent ruckman when required, willing to move across, willing to take a pay cut to do so, available, in the best form of his career, allows us to accommodate English's desires - and people are unhappy he's not the reincarnation of Gary Dempsey and Simon Beasley combined for some reason ???

Who else would you like ? Other options of a similar size to do a similar role that I can quickly think of are: King brothers, Chol (GCS), Marshall (Port), De Koning (Carlt), Thilthorpe (Adel), Casboult (GCS) or Daniher (Bris).

Which one of those are we prying free ??
Click to expand...
This is groundhog day from when we had some assortment of Roberts, Adams, Collins, Cordy and Wood and then had a meltdown at drafting Naughton. Astro swinging forward notwithstanding, he would easily be in our best 22 as a defender right now.

It's so hard to predict forward as a fan. We all want Darcy to dominate at AFL level next week, have Bruce play til he's 35, have Sweet come on as a ruck, and have Marra become a star of the comp. It colours our view.

Right now, when we should be contending, we have no competent second rucks in the coaches' eyes. That is a big problem that needs fixing. Lobb is one of the better fwd/rucks in the competition and acquiring him is a no brainer. If it means Bruce or Marra have to fight harder to play, or Darcy needs to spend a bit longer at VFL level/playing KPD, that is a sign of us getting better.

KPD vs 2nd ruck/Lobb is an entirely false dichotomy. If we can't address both, we've failed.
 
doggies ftw said:
Just saying if he plays VFL this week and isn’t even considered an EMG for the seniors - it shows where he sits in the pecking order right now and that he’s out of favour. Whether that’s for form or off field antics or a mixture of both who knows but when he’s on 600k+ being on the out of selection is pretty telling
Click to expand...

And he has been named in the VFL so it's certainly something that we need to wonder about.
 
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