Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Struggle]

Stephenson had the more serious off-field issues and internal problems (apparently) and Roos were pretty happy to move him on. I don't think they are there yet at all with TT.

Stephenson was also a salary dump because they'd completely cooked their cap

 

[Foxman98]

Stephenson had the more serious off-field issues and internal problems (apparently) and Roos were pretty happy to move him on. I don't think they are there yet at all with TT.

Was dropped for failing to meet team standards then kept in the vfl to finish the season despite a good return to form down there

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Didn’t a ITK poster mention we were in discussions with a KD that hadn’t been mentioned yet. Can anyone remember that?

 

[geoffjennings79]

First Horne-Francis, and now potentially Thomas! But according to most North posters "it's all lies and indigenous players love playing for Clarko... except for those 3 liars"!

 

[Barking Mad]

With the recent stuff with the Roos, I’m hoping Sammy is getting in Logues ear. He’s the back I think we crave. Not tall but strong as an ox

 

[Foxman98]

With the recent stuff with the Roos, I’m hoping Sammy is getting in Logues ear. He’s the back I think we crave. Not tall but strong as an ox

He's not worth the coin he wants

 

[Barking Mad]

He's not worth the coin he wants

May accept less given Clarko up in the air and more chance of finals. Add in the Hyphen wants out and TT talk and makes for a bit of doom and gloom for a while.

 

[CountryDog5]

Didn’t a ITK poster mention we were in discussions with a KD that hadn’t been mentioned yet. Can anyone remember that?

I believe that was cleveland or BulldogMuscle? They mentioned Sams trip to gold coast was to try and convince a certain gun FB to request a trade home to Vic, however the players manager was the one pumping the brakes due to the player being a chance to be next captain along with a fat pay rise.

 

[Foxman98]

May accept less given Clarko up in the air and more chance of finals. Add in the Hyphen wants out and TT talk and makes for a bit of doom and gloom for a while.

Feel like he'd stay at Freo then who upped their offer

 

[Smiley Boy]

Didn’t a ITK poster mention we were in discussions with a KD that hadn’t been mentioned yet. Can anyone remember that?

We were in the hunt with Logue before North upped their offer.. not sure if it would still be on the cards or we moved on though

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

The posture posting this time of year is always a bit of a nightmare.

Dunkley is uncontracted. He has chosen a team. He is a good player. He is going to be traded, it is almost certainly going to be to Brisbane, and it will definitely be below his actual value.

There is nothing - nothing - to be gained by walking him to the PSD. You ruin player relationships, relationships with other clubs, and make players think twice about whether you've got their wellbeing in mind.

You don't "set an example" to teams or to players. The only message you send is that you are hard to deal with and will make life hard for any player who has a legitimate reason for wanting to find a new workplace.

For these and other reasons, it just doesn't happen. The only example I can think of off the top of my head that is remotely comparable is Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

(who isn't really at Dunkley's level) - and, gee, it's hard to make an argument that getting nothing for him has worked well for GC, hey?

There is no way nothing is better than a first rounder or something. If you think we were s**t this year, wait until you take out our best and fairest and replace his list spot with a pick in the 80s.

Dunkley will be traded to Brisbane and he will go for less than he is truly worth - because that's the way negotiating works. They're starting at a future first, we're starting at two firsts. The goal is to bridge that gap, but that will take time. Brisbane will need to make other deals in the meantime, and yes, that might mean trading other picks that you might have your eye on. But that doesn't mean they're trying to * us over, and it doesn't mean they're not acting in good faith. It just means they have s**t to do and can't leave it all to the last day. They want Dunks too.

TL;DR can we spare the 10 pages of weird posturing that doesn't make sense and also doesn't change anything about the negotiations? There's so much anger here, FFS footy is meant to be fun.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

F**k him. Send him to Norf!!

 

[Claythesmiths]

TL;DR can we spare the 10 pages of weird posturing that doesn't make sense and also doesn't change anything about the negotiations? There's so much anger here, FFS footy is meant to be fun.

Well said. Sometimes people take their theoretical negotiations too seriously and seem to think they’re doing the actual trade deal themselves. We will trade Dunkley for slightly unders and we will get Lobb for slightly overs, and we’ll have all forgotten about it by the time round one rolls around.

 

[geoffjennings79]

The posture posting this time of year is always a bit of a nightmare.

Dunkley is uncontracted. He has chosen a team. He is a good player. He is going to be traded, it is almost certainly going to be to Brisbane, and it will definitely be below his actual value.

There is nothing - nothing - to be gained by walking him to the PSD. You ruin player relationships, relationships with other clubs, and make players think twice about whether you've got their wellbeing in mind.

You don't "set an example" to teams or to players. The only message you send is that you are hard to deal with and will make life hard for any player who has a legitimate reason for wanting to find a new workplace.

For these and other reasons, it just doesn't happen. The only example I can think of off the top of my head that is remotely comparable is Jack Martin (who isn't really at Dunkley's level) - and, gee, it's hard to make an argument that getting nothing for him has worked well for GC, hey?

There is no way nothing is better than a first rounder or something. If you think we were s**t this year, wait until you take out our best and fairest and replace his list spot with a pick in the 80s.

Dunkley will be traded to Brisbane and he will go for less than he is truly worth - because that's the way negotiating works. They're starting at a future first, we're starting at two firsts. The goal is to bridge that gap, but that will take time. Brisbane will need to make other deals in the meantime, and yes, that might mean trading other picks that you might have your eye on. But that doesn't mean they're trying to * us over, and it doesn't mean they're not acting in good faith. It just means they have s**t to do and can't leave it all to the last day. They want Dunks too.

TL;DR can we spare the 10 pages of weird posturing that doesn't make sense and also doesn't change anything about the negotiations? There's so much anger here, FFS footy is meant to be fun.

Yep, said the same earlier. (Nick Stevens and Rawlings and Luke Ball wen to PSD/draft, but agree those days are long gone apart from exceptional circumstances like Martin).

And Lobb will be the same - posters on here saying we will walk away - we won't! We have committed to Lobb long before now. That's why he requested a trade specifically to us! As Dannnnnnn says, those requests are made in good faith because the trades almost always happen - in good faith.

 

[gordo2016]

Wouldn’t he just retire then sign for Footscray then?

Maybe he will retire.

 

[CarnTheScray]

I believe that was cleveland or BulldogMuscle? They mentioned Sams trip to gold coast was to try and convince a certain gun FB to request a trade home to Vic, however the players manager was the one pumping the brakes due to the player being a chance to be next captain along with a fat pay rise.

I think we can work out who that player is lol.

 

[Royale]

Think our list looks pretty healthy and good even with the loss of Dunks. Couple of nice draft picks along with better quality coaching and i reckon we'll be right back up the top end. Outside of a proper gun defender that can intercept i'm not exactly sure what else we need. The jump has got to come in coaching and skills.

 

[geoffjennings79]

The posture posting this time of year is always a bit of a nightmare.

TL;DR can we spare the 10 pages of weird posturing that doesn't make sense and also doesn't change anything about the negotiations? There's so much anger here, FFS footy is meant to be fun.

Sorry to quote you twice, but this board is nothing compared to the North/Port boards regarding Horne-Francis, and I'd suggest most North supporters are completely deluded if they think they are getting two first rounders PLUS a Port under-25 gun like Butters or Georgiades, or 3 or more first rounders! And those threads are rolling over to a new page almost every few minutes! And the vitriol on the North board at JHF, Hawks ex-indigenous players, ABC journos, AFL, Port is next level. Cess-pit on all fronts.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Well said. Sometimes people take their theoretical negotiations too seriously and seem to think they’re doing the actual trade deal themselves. We will trade Dunkley for slightly unders and we will get Lobb for slightly overs, and we’ll have all forgotten about it by the time round one rolls around.

Yep - I do think Lobb could fall through, though. Being contracted changes things. They know from this year that he's not the type to whinge and refuse to play, so they have a bit of leverage there.

I, too, have a little bit of anxiety about the possibility of overpaying for Lobb. I think that's reasonable... but I think some of the pre-emptive anger about overpaying is a bit hard to read.

 

[Foxman98]

Sorry to quote you twice, but this board is nothing compared to the North/Port boards regarding Horne-Francis, and I'd suggest most North supporters are completely deluded if they think they are getting two first rounders PLUS a Port under-25 gun like Butters or Georgiades, or 3 or more first rounders! And those threads are rolling over to a new page almost every few minutes! And the vitriol on the North board at JHF, Hawks ex-indigenous players, ABC journos, AFL, Port is next level. Cess-pit on all fronts.

Contracted and was just pick 1 tbh it's what we would've been asking for Cooney if he wanted to leave after 1 year too

 

[geoffjennings79]

Yep - I do think Lobb could fall through, though. Being contracted changes things. They know from this year that he's not the type to whinge and refuse to play, so they have a bit of leverage there.

I, too, have a little bit of anxiety about the possibility of overpaying for Lobb. I think that's reasonable... but I think some of the pre-emptive anger about overpaying is a bit hard to read.

Yeah, but after he requested a trade eastwards last year and was denied, was (allegedly/rumoured) Freo gave him some sort of assurance they would honour that request this year, assuming he gave this year his all - which he seems to have done on his part.

I reckon he gets done, and we don't overpay, might just be held up by Jackson trade to be finalised.

 

[doggies ftw]

The posture posting this time of year is always a bit of a nightmare.

Dunkley is uncontracted. He has chosen a team. He is a good player. He is going to be traded, it is almost certainly going to be to Brisbane, and it will definitely be below his actual value.

There is nothing - nothing - to be gained by walking him to the PSD. You ruin player relationships, relationships with other clubs, and make players think twice about whether you've got their wellbeing in mind.

You don't "set an example" to teams or to players. The only message you send is that you are hard to deal with and will make life hard for any player who has a legitimate reason for wanting to find a new workplace.

For these and other reasons, it just doesn't happen. The only example I can think of off the top of my head that is remotely comparable is Jack Martin (who isn't really at Dunkley's level) - and, gee, it's hard to make an argument that getting nothing for him has worked well for GC, hey?

There is no way nothing is better than a first rounder or something. If you think we were s**t this year, wait until you take out our best and fairest and replace his list spot with a pick in the 80s.

Dunkley will be traded to Brisbane and he will go for less than he is truly worth - because that's the way negotiating works. They're starting at a future first, we're starting at two firsts. The goal is to bridge that gap, but that will take time. Brisbane will need to make other deals in the meantime, and yes, that might mean trading other picks that you might have your eye on. But that doesn't mean they're trying to * us over, and it doesn't mean they're not acting in good faith. It just means they have s**t to do and can't leave it all to the last day. They want Dunks too.

TL;DR can we spare the 10 pages of weird posturing that doesn't make sense and also doesn't change anything about the negotiations? There's so much anger here, FFS footy is meant to be fun.

Couldnt disagree more, what it sends a bad message to players/teams to ask for fair compensation for a required player, but supposedly having a gun player request a trade to you but then offering rubbish is all well & good because that’s how negotiation works? I’m sorry but taking whatever you can get when the opposite party has just as much, probably less, leverage than we do is not good negotiation. If you think accepting less value than your asset is worth is “how negotiating works” I seriously hope you’re not in a role which requires negotiating

Weve made it quite clear we’re firm but fair under Power and are willing to deal if the price is right, if players/clubs aren’t happy with that approach than they can kindly go * themselves.

Yes they have other deals to do, as do we - this is their high profile trade and first priority. If you don’t think trading out one of their few assets with any value before even coming close to terms with us is bad faith then I can’t help ya.

What leverage do Brisbane have? Why would we bend over and accept whatever scraps they offer up? Why on earth would we help a direct competitor just because it’s of course better for them to use 15 elsewhere and deal future picks to us. I just cannot understand this logic at all.

I guess we’ll see, and I agree Dunks won’t go PSD because Brissy won’t allow that to happen - but there is zero chance we accept well unders in this trade

 

[Chalky White]

The posture posting this time of year is always a bit of a nightmare.

Dunkley is uncontracted. He has chosen a team. He is a good player. He is going to be traded, it is almost certainly going to be to Brisbane, and it will definitely be below his actual value.

There is nothing - nothing - to be gained by walking him to the PSD. You ruin player relationships, relationships with other clubs, and make players think twice about whether you've got their wellbeing in mind.

You don't "set an example" to teams or to players. The only message you send is that you are hard to deal with and will make life hard for any player who has a legitimate reason for wanting to find a new workplace.

For these and other reasons, it just doesn't happen. The only example I can think of off the top of my head that is remotely comparable is Jack Martin (who isn't really at Dunkley's level) - and, gee, it's hard to make an argument that getting nothing for him has worked well for GC, hey?

There is no way nothing is better than a first rounder or something. If you think we were s**t this year, wait until you take out our best and fairest and replace his list spot with a pick in the 80s.

Dunkley will be traded to Brisbane and he will go for less than he is truly worth - because that's the way negotiating works. They're starting at a future first, we're starting at two firsts. The goal is to bridge that gap, but that will take time. Brisbane will need to make other deals in the meantime, and yes, that might mean trading other picks that you might have your eye on. But that doesn't mean they're trying to * us over, and it doesn't mean they're not acting in good faith. It just means they have s**t to do and can't leave it all to the last day. They want Dunks too.

TL;DR can we spare the 10 pages of weird posturing that doesn't make sense and also doesn't change anything about the negotiations? There's so much anger here, FFS footy is meant to be fun.

I get your post fully. But how is an out of contact Taranto worth two first rounders then?

 

[geoffjennings79]

Contracted and was just pick 1 tbh it's what we would've been asking for Cooney if he wanted to leave after 1 year too

Yeah, but Cooney's first year was significantly better than JHF's, and Cooney didn't sulk and exhibit poor body language. I rate him as a player, and may be a very good one when back in SA, but on output so far, hasn't done North any favours in terms of value. Will be the same as Dunkley and Lobb I reckon, deal will be done for somewhere in between. North seem to want players, but the only players Port can offer are older, although some are mid-20s. Some suggestion on Port board of Byrne-Jones, and a few were even happy for Wines as part of the trade!

 

[Chalky White]

Sorry to quote you twice, but this board is nothing compared to the North/Port boards regarding Horne-Francis, and I'd suggest most North supporters are completely deluded if they think they are getting two first rounders PLUS a Port under-25 gun like Butters or Georgiades, or 3 or more first rounders! And those threads are rolling over to a new page almost every few minutes! And the vitriol on the North board at JHF, Hawks ex-indigenous players, ABC journos, AFL, Port is next level. Cess-pit on all fronts.

Disagree. They will ask and get what they ask for.