Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Bald]

He has been reading my posts!

Cheap young quality depth is what we need Poults 2.0

Cheap. Young. Quality.

Pick two. You aren’t going to get all three.

 

[dogwatch]

I did point out he kicked a few goals in my post. But it would be a good game, followed by two quiet games. He kicked 3 or more in 7 of his 23 games, 11 of those was 1 or 0 goals. Hence my comment on being inconsistent. More than half his games in 2022 did feature one or zero tackles. Hence my comment on we need smalls who can routinely get us tackles inside 50.

I'm no fan of getting Ginnivan and agree we need a small fast forward who lives for only three things - kicking goals, goal assists and tackling.

However let's put Ginnivan's stats in context, with the caveat that I'm not much of a Ginnivan watcher so I'm just going on his stats ... which I understand may only be part of the story:

We only have three consistent goalkickers in 2023.
Mainly Naughton (goal or more in every one of his 20 games) and Weightman (has missed out on goals in only 2 of his 16 games).
Marra has only become more consistent in recent weeks but over the season has missed out on goals in 7 of his 20 games and has scored only 1 goal in another 5. So pretty much the same pattern as Ginnivan last year. Of course everybody here would agree that Marra is on a pretty steep trajectory and has a much higher ceiling than Jack G.

Our main goalkickers average 2.0 gls/gm (Naughton), 1.94 gls a game (Weightman) and 1.55 gls/gm (Marra). After that our best are Bont (0.94) and Lobb (0.90) then a big gap to West (0.63).

Ginnivan in 2022 averaged 1.74 gls/gm so at his productive best he would be right up there with our best goalkickers.

As far as tackling goes his 2022 season wasn't terrible but it was well below what we need. He had 34 tackles (avge 1.48). Compare that to our main forwards this year: Weightman (2.44), West (3.22), Naughton (2.50) and Marra (0.90).

Or to compare with some of the AFL's best Charlie Cameron has about 3.5 and Kysaiah Pickett has over 4.0. Now that's the sort of tackling we are looking for!

As far as GAs are concerned:
Ginnivan: 0.26 in 2022 (this year 0.38)
Weightman 0.50
West 0.89
Naughton 0.90
Marra 0.65

So basically Ginnivan doesn't measure up to our blokes in GAs. The stats suggest he is mainly a seagull with a good eye for a goalscoring opportunity. Not so much a player doing the team discipline things.

I repeat that I don't really want Ginnivan but at his best he might offer us something, even if it's just that opportunistic goalscoring without doing all the team stuff. The real question for me is why has he fallen out of favour (perhaps it's the point I made about not doing team things?) and why have most of his stats declined in 2023? If our club has some inside knowledge on this (eg there might have been a personality clash with some of the more senior players) and believes it can overcome the problem then maybe we can unlock his potential. He's still only 20 after all.

As a side note I was surprised how well Rhylee West ranked in tackles and GAs. Just about our best forward in those two areas. Now if he could just find the goals a bit more we wouldn't even be looking at Ginnivan would we?

 

[dogwatch]

To add to the above, here are Bobby Hill's stats this year over 19 games:
1.21 gls/gm
0.53 GAs
2.11 Tackles

He's 23 years old.

So basically he's in front of Ginnivan and a handy player but still a poor man's Cody Weightman

3

Cody Weightman

Age

24

Ht

179cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.5

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

6.5

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.5

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

6.5

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

G

1.0

4star

.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

I blame you Foxman98 lol

Called it, weeks ago.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

I'm no fan of getting Ginnivan and agree we need a small fast forward who lives for only three things - kicking goals, goal assists and tackling.

However let's put Ginnivan's stats in context, with the caveat that I'm not much of a Ginnivan watcher so I'm just going on his stats ... which I understand may only be part of the story:

We only have three consistent goalkickers in 2023.
Mainly Naughton (goal or more in every one of his 20 games) and Weightman (has missed out on goals in only 2 of his 16 games).
Marra has only become more consistent in recent weeks but over the season has missed out on goals in 7 of his 20 games and has scored only 1 goal in another 5. So pretty much the same pattern as Ginnivan last year. Of course everybody here would agree that Marra is on a pretty steep trajectory and has a much higher ceiling than Jack G.

Our main goalkickers average 2.0 gls/gm (Naughton), 1.94 gls a game (Weightman) and 1.55 gls/gm (Marra). After that our best are Bont (0.94) and Lobb (0.90) then a big gap to West (0.63).

Ginnivan in 2022 averaged 1.74 gls/gm so at his productive best he would be right up there with our best goalkickers.

As far as tackling goes his 2022 season wasn't terrible but it was well below what we need. He had 34 tackles (avge 1.48). Compare that to our main forwards this year: Weightman (2.44), West (3.22), Naughton (2.50) and Marra (0.90).

Or to compare with some of the AFL's best Charlie Cameron has about 3.5 and Kysaiah Pickett has over 4.0. Now that's the sort of tackling we are looking for!

As far as GAs are concerned:
Ginnivan: 0.26 in 2022 (this year 0.38)
Weightman 0.50
West 0.89
Naughton 0.90
Marra 0.65

So basically Ginnivan doesn't measure up to our blokes in GAs. The stats suggest he is mainly a seagull with a good eye for a goalscoring opportunity. Not so much a player doing the team discipline things.

I repeat that I don't really want Ginnivan but at his best he might offer us something, even if it's just that opportunistic goalscoring without doing all the team stuff. The real question for me is why has he fallen out of favour (perhaps it's the point I made about not doing team things?) and why have most of his stats declined in 2023? If our club has some inside knowledge on this (eg there might have been a personality clash with some of the more senior players) and believes it can overcome the problem then maybe we can unlock his potential. He's still only 20 after all.

As a side note I was surprised how well Rhylee West ranked in tackles and GAs. Just about our best forward in those two areas. Now if he could just find the goals a bit more we wouldn't even be looking at Ginnivan would we?

With the crackdown on ducking and staging for frees, Ginnivan will never see his best ever again. He was always going to be exposed once forced to earn his goals

 

[_Cerberus_]

I repeat that I don't really want Ginnivan but at his best he might offer us something, even if it's just that opportunistic goalscoring without doing all the team stuff. The real question for me is why has he fallen out of favour (perhaps it's the point I made about not doing team things?) and why have most of his stats declined in 2023?

Probably lost his secret weapon he has relied on since his junior days. No longer gets frees for dropping his knees xD

Nah, probably because Mihocek and Elliott are their two number one smalls and the first picked no matter what. So he is fighting for a third small spot which is often reserved for resting mids these days. Still odd as I think Collingwoods style suits the way Ginnivan plays, and their is room for him. But Hill has been performing marginally better this season, Pies probably rate him. The cocaine issue probably hit his confidence a little as well.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Called it, weeks ago.

Haha wouldn’t believe a thing coming from this twitter account only shared if because people were talking about him on here.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Haha wouldn’t believe a thing coming from this twitter account only shared if because people were talking about him on here.

Your right, pretty obscure media outlet, but, does go along the lines of what I've been told as well, that we are somewhat interested if he came at the right price.

Not the only Collingwood player we're looking at I'm lead to believe.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Your right, pretty obscure media outlet, but, does go along the lines of what I've been told as well, that we are somewhat interested if he came at the right price.

Not the only Collingwood player we're looking at I'm lead to believe.

Cal Twomey on gettable said we are still interested in Kai Lohmann

 

[LovevShaqBB13]

Promote maddocks.
Is our most important coach for players day to day and development.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Pissed off about Smiffy. Of all the assistants to go, he's the one. This isn't the big cleanout. It's a token effort. Why haven't they told anyone else if they are going to get rid of any others? NOT happy Jan.

Yep, you get rid of a bloke that bleeds for the club, who pounded the turf after the 97 Prelim, who once was in tears on radio after we lost eight in row during the Rohde years. Yet we keep our $2 Shop jobs for mates panel of Spangher, Edge, Webb and Maddocks. Garbage.

 

[dogwatch]

With the crackdown on ducking and staging for frees, Ginnivan will never see his best ever again. He was always going to be exposed once forced to earn his goals

Ha. The AFL's rule changes and "crackdowns" are a joke. They last exactly one lap of the goldfish bowl.

That said, you're probably right about Jack G if he's a one-trick pony, even without an official AFL crackdown. Players get a reputation for ducking and staging and in most cases (good bloke Selwood an exception) they soon find it hard to get even legitimate frees.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Yep, you get rid of a bloke that bleeds for the club, who pounded the turf after the 97 Prelim, who once was in tears on radio after we lost eight in row during the Rohde years. Yet we keep our $2 Shop jobs for mates panel of Spangler, Edge, Webb and Maddocks. Garbage.

I think that until we know all of the plans of the club, we don’t jump to conclusions. By some accounts Bubba is the one who has initiated this, and Webb may be heading back to WA.

 

[doggiesin08]

So the departure of Smith has suggested that assistant coaches have to be given notice of their contract situation by August for the next year. Does this suggest that it means Spangher & Webb will be retained as they were also both supposed to be out of contract?

It’s such a shit system that you have to make a call on assistants that far out.

 

[grassman75]

Has been at the club a long time. From all accounts a great bloke. Hopefully he gets a good opportunity elsewhere and it’s all amicable.

Definitely good to rotate the panel a bit and it was looking a bit stale.

It's funny isn't it, a lot here scream for better assistants around Bevo, but when the club makes the call, because it's Bubba, they are all up in arms about losing a club legend. Maybe he is stale, maybe he is part of the problem. 28 years is a long time, I know, I was with my old company that long. We need fresh ideas and if that means saying farewell to a club legend then so be it. Maybe we are getting Boydy or Murph back

 

[grassman75]

If Sweet is getting good internet elsewhere, then I can see why he wants to move.

Everybody hates a dodgy wi-fi connection.

Especially for a gamer like him.

 

[grassman75]

I blame you Foxman98 lol

Imagine the #freekickdogs melts with Ginni and Flea

 

[grassman75]

Please tell me we are looking at Elliot...

 

[grassman75]

Hi Jamie

Promote maddocks.
Is our most important coach for players day to day and development

 

[Dogs Rule]

It's funny isn't it, a lot here scream for better assistants around Bevo, but when the club makes the call, because it's Bubba, they are all up in arms about losing a club legend. Maybe he is stale, maybe he is part of the problem. 28 years is a long time, I know, I was with my old company that long. We need fresh ideas and if that means saying farewell to a club legend then so be it. Maybe we are getting Boydy or Murph back

You're right, I just hope it doesn't start and end at Bubba.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Your right, pretty obscure media outlet, but, does go along the lines of what I've been told as well, that we are somewhat interested if he came at the right price.

Not the only Collingwood player we're looking at I'm lead to believe.

Have I got this right? This talk about Ginnivan only came about because two Bulldogs “recruiters” were seen at a Pies VFL game so people are guessing who they were there to see? Nothing more substantial?

 

[King Harold]

Would be very surprised if we were targeting GinnIvan .
How many small forwards do we need to collect ?
Weightman
AJones
West
McNeil
Clarke

 

[Anja_Nees]

It's funny isn't it, a lot here scream for better assistants around Bevo, but when the club makes the call, because it's Bubba, they are all up in arms about losing a club legend. Maybe he is stale, maybe he is part of the problem. 28 years is a long time, I know, I was with my old company that long. We need fresh ideas and if that means saying farewell to a club legend then so be it. Maybe we are getting Boydy or Murph back

Just hope it’s amicable and he moves on to something he is happy with. At the moment it looks like he’s been singled out a bit just because of the timing.

 

[Bulldogs85]

Inside Trading Article

BULLDOG LOCKED IN WITH NEW DEAL​

ANTHONY Scott will be rewarded for a career-best season with a new two-year deal at the Western Bulldogs.

The 28-year-old has proven to be a hit since being signed on the eve of the 2021 season via the pre-season supplemental selection period.

Scott has played 55 games since being added to the AFL list at the Whitten Oval as a 25-year-old, after proving himself in the VFL program following dominant form for Old Trinity in the VAFA.
Luke Beveridge has used him across a range of different roles in 2023, although Scott will be sidelined this weekend after sustaining a concussion against Richmond last Friday.

After spending his first couple of years in red, white and blue with Footscray, Scott is now set to remain with the Western Bulldogs until at least the end of 2025. – Josh Gabelich

 

[Foxman98]

Would be very surprised if we were targeting GinnIvan .
How many small forwards do we need to collect ?
Weightman
AJones
West
McNeil
Clarke

Weightman - Plays like a Greene/Fritsch hybrid tall type
Arty - Genuine Small
West - 'Failed" mid converted into a small
McNeil - Shown 0 at AFL level should be delisted
Clarke yet to play a game

Off that count we have 2