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Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

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doggies ftw said:
Lippys not great has some serious weaknesses, I couldn’t really care that he’s gone - but it is funny to watch everyone talk s**t about him when he literally just played in a winning prelim side. But he’s not good enough for us? 😂

It’s just another example of a good coach playing a player for their strengths in a role that he can contribute to a great side. Whereas our coach sees weaknesses (well some players weaknesses) and prioritises versatility or the ability to be average in all facets of the game over being great at certain things, and not maximising their strengths/limiting their weaknesses.

Watching that game last night and you just realise geez so many of our regulars have no place in a game like that. So much bloody vanilla in our side. But there’s average players everywhere for both teams - Bedford, Lloyd, WHE, Lip, Markov, Daniels etc - but the difference is they all have at least one standout feature to their game and their utilised in a way which maximises their strengths and allows them to fit into clearly defined roles.

I’m so sick of the way we look at role players, it’s genuinely ****ed
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I agree you need to maximise the strengths of the players you have and we have been playing a style that hasn’t for the last 2 years. There is players we should be doing more with.

However saying that I don’t think Lips deficiencies work in high pressure footy. Despite him being a great user he tended to panic in tight, he didnt tackle and he wasn’t fast.

I wish him well and hope he wins a flag next week but I still don’t think he would have had a role for us as he doesn’t cover the defensive deficiencies of our other midfielders who are better players than him.

Also, Daniel’s is far better than average. His almost the best link up small foward in the comp imo. I would love him at the bulldogs.
 
Here we go dogs said:
I agree you need to maximise the strengths of the players you have and we have been playing a style that hasn’t for the last 2 years. There is players we should be doing more with.

However saying that I don’t think Lips deficiencies work in high pressure footy. Despite him being a great user he tended to panic in tight, he didnt tackle and he wasn’t fast.

I wish him well and hope he wins a flag next week but I still don’t think he would have had a role for us as he doesn’t cover the defensive deficiencies of our other midfielders who are better players than him.

Also, Daniel’s is far better than average. His almost the best link up small foward in the comp imo. I would love him at the bulldogs.
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Yeah I agree mate, Lipinski can only find a spot at pies because his defensive/contested deficiencies are well covered by other players - he wouldn’t get that from us and so he wouldn’t be suited as a role player for us currently.

I was just more using him as a springboard to make my point. For example you look at a guy like West, absolute beast around the contest, elite tackler - real above AFL average attributes to his game, but we focus on his weaknesses ie not the best runner and so have preferred guys like McNeil, Scott, even McComb over the past two years - all guys who are a bit more well rounded, ie average at everything, but lack any standout attributes.

I just think fundamentally our approach to role players is completely flawed. I don’t think you want your whole bottom 6 to be bog average vanilla mr fix it types. I think you want to find guys who have certain standout attributes which compliment the core of your team and play them in roles where they can do that, even if they struggle in other parts of the game.

Lip was bad last night but that’s why he’s found a spot at the pies, because his class compliments a pressure heavy bunch of forwards.

You have a forward line full of good high pressure defensive players, then maybe you cop a low possession, good finisher as a ‘role player’ to compliment them. Vice versa you have a strong marking, classy forward line you’ll probably need a pressure only type to compliment them.

Role players/bottom 6 should be entirely based around fitting into a team & their specific needs seamlessly and adding something positive and almost having their weaknesses hidden. We’ve taken the approach of “this guys an alright mid at vfl level, he can play wing, fp, BP at AFL level” and just loading the side with these guys who just don’t really offer anything special.

We’ve got it all wrong and it’s having a big effect on us IMO, it really leads into this whole versatility mantra we’ve employed from day one - everyone needs to be able to do everything okay, whereas really everyone should be learning their own role in a team and maximising it.
 
I’m hearing on the radio that Travis Boak is nearly pushed out of Port. He’ll have to play SANFL. He would be great for our, I wouldn’t say timid, but I couldn’t say warrior playing group. He also trains hard and is very professional and prepares diligently. Perfect for our young group, not just Bont showing the way all the time.
 

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Something I love about Collingwood is how hard and tough they are. Makes sense they can fit Lippa because they’re so tough. Even still his softness stood out last night.

His role is also less important defensively. He’s basically a forward of stoppage link midfielder. For us he was playing forward where he was too slow and not a good tackler (despite having great offensive touch) or in the guts where his bad tackling was easily outcompeted by better mids.

Fundamentally our team now is just too soft. Our hardest players are all from the McCartney era except for Naughty and West. As people have said part of this may be the regime. I’m sure there is more toughness inside Baz than he is currently expressing for us.

I just rewatched the outsiders doc about 2016 thanks to Hoges. Key takeaway is we were so tough top to bottom. Picken, Clay, Dunks, Mclean, Libba, Bont, Macrae, Dahlhaus, Hunter, Moyd, Moz, Biggs, Wood.

No surprise one of our worst GF performers was Caleb- a player without the capability of a lot of physical toughness.

Now our toughest players are the remaining of those mentioned above plus West.

It’s just not enough to win you tough games. That’s probably why we lost a lot of close ones this year. Because we’ve hit the threshold where not enough of our guys stand up when it matters.

I know a coaching evolution could shed a positive light on the possible toughness inside a lot of guys on our list but honestly I think it could take two to three full off seasons to address.

I think Cody has it inside him to play tougher than he currently does.
 
Freshwater said:
I’m hearing on the radio that Travis Boak is nearly pushed out of Port. He’ll have to play SANFL. He would be great for our, I wouldn’t say timid, but I couldn’t say warrior playing group. He also trains hard and is very professional and prepares diligently. Perfect for our young group, not just Bont showing the way all the time.
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If a team like us grabbed him, it'd be an on field coach role with the view to coach after he's finished.

Not the worst idea.

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
doggies ftw said:
Ugh, don’t like the sound of that to be honest.

Surely we don’t do something ******* stupid and overestimate our year next year. F1 should be categorically off the table.
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It’s going to end up being pick 6/7 and we’ll have sold the farm this year and next for a player we don’t actually want…..

This has doom written all over it !!

Its A Trap GIF
 
Dog 36 said:
Lipinski is a sample of some problems at the Kennel.

Our inability to get players to play a role in a structured system using the cattle we have.

Lipinski plays a role in a structure that now sees him be in a GF.

Confusion reigns at the Kennel
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Look. I like to pile onto the club for its perceived deficiencies as much as the next keyboard coach.

However... Lipinski left he 'Kennel' because he saw that he was well behind The Bont, Libba and Macrae for places in the starting midfield at the time. And was going to have to make his bones on the wing or the flanks. This he saw as a little beneath him so he looked to pastures anew and landed at Collingwood. That he landed in exactly the same position there as he did when he was with us will never not be funny to me and speaks not to our inability to get players to play a role or within a structure. But to the limitations in his game like his unwillingness to put his head over the ball or his chronic lack of pace. Something that as much as we tried was never going to see him play as a full time wingman. It's ironic that the pies have him listed as a medium forward and not a as a mid on their website.

So pretty much exactly where his career was headed with us.

He's no certainty this week and is the likely candidate to make room for Adams should he be available this week.
 
Norm De Guerre said:
Look. I like to pile onto the club for its perceived deficiencies as much as the next keyboard coach.

However... Lipinski left he 'Kennel' because he saw that he was well behind The Bont, Libba and Macrae for places in the starting midfield at the time. And was going to have to make his bones on the wing or the flanks. This he saw as a little beneath him so he looked to pastures anew and landed at Collingwood. That he landed in exactly the same position there as he did when he was with us will never not be funny to me and speaks not to our inability to get players to play a role or within a structure. But to the limitations in his game like his unwillingness to put his head over the ball or his chronic lack of pace. Something that as much as we tried was never going to see him play as a full time wingman. It's ironic that the pies have him listed as a medium forward and not a as a mid on their website.

So pretty much exactly where his career was headed with us.

He's no certainty this week and is the likely candidate to make room for Adams should he be available this week.
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The other aspect is that while he is in a team performing well, he has demonstrated zero development in the areas that we had concerns with and is exactly the same player we let go.

It’s not as if he has developed at the Pies - they are just covering him better than we could have this year
 
doggies ftw said:
Ugh, don’t like the sound of that to be honest.

Surely we don’t do something ******* stupid and overestimate our year next year. F1 should be categorically off the table.
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That would be a first for Sam power he has never Traded a future First
 

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Nat Fyfe said:
So Ralph claiming future 1st, Morris claiming 36. Should be a relief to everyone considering Morris is the one who actually gets good intel while Ralph just guesses and reports it like it’s news
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yea Tom Morris just mentioned our draft hand which is 10,17,36 didn’t even bring up a future first
 
dergert said:
Must have a clear target.

If we trade all them we won't have any chance of Lual.
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Pretty decent chance Lual slides outside the 40. Means we can just enter a deficit in our future 3rd/4th if we have nothing left, or best case scenario we can rookie him
 

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Nat Fyfe said:
It was mentioned yesterday I think in the HS that we’re after Watson. No idea whether it was guesswork or accurate though
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I think it probably means we see him in a Gulden role, which would be a decent projection. Hs all the same skills and maybe better forward if centre but just not as fluid a ball winner yet. And a touch smaller.
 
What Tom Morris said

Gold Coast’s pick 4

“There’s a clear front-runner now and it’s the Western Bulldogs. They’ve got picks 10, 17 and 36, which gives the Gold Coast Suns what they want.

“This doesn’t mean that Melbourne or Adelaide or any other club is completely out of it, but I do think it is the Dogs’ to lose now and I think there’s an acknowledgement from the Suns that the Dogs are the frontrunners, too.”
 
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