Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 7 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[54Bulldog16]

Forgive me if I’m wrong….. but paying 95% one year and then paying 105% the next year on a salary cap of $18m gives you an extra $1.8 that year, as a once off. It doesn’t dig you out of the hole of >40% of the cap being spent on 7 players long term…
Great work for having a swing but feel it’s going to end in tears.

 

[RWnBluey]

Essendope have offered Zac Bailey $1.3m/year over 6 years

Zac about to find out that money can’t buy happiness

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I agree that Saints are overpaying these players in a strict, league average value sense, but this is the Saints we're talking about. They've drafted poorly in the past and they'll probably draft poorly into the future. Nobody wants to move there at market value. Players can't be sold on an enjoyable attacking gamestyle or under a young, vibrant coach closer to their generation than what Ross is. Obviously these overpayments aren't good, but they surely have to try something to not be in shit team purgatory? Surely overpaying good talent, starting with that as your base and trying to work out which VFL talent can fit into the system? What's the risk here... that they lose a talented draftee because they can't afford to keep him, although this assumes that they were both able to draft well, that somehow they aren't winning finals (but have these good players and good draftee young players) but that player doesn't want to stay? Why wouldn't he? If St Kilda draft well on top of these players they start winning finals and things become a bit easier.

In other words I think it's a bit harsh to criticise them for something that is bad when almost every realistic list management decisions they could execute would be equally considered just as bad, if not worse.

And just as an aside as a similar team in terms of list management desirability to the Saints, it shows how well we've been run as a club over the last decade plus that we aren't similar like the Saints.

 

[TiAn_]

Last year they low-balled Josh Battle

24

Josh Battle

Age

27

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

, only upping their offer at the last minute once he was already gone to the Hawks. He goes on to be All-Australian this year.

The next year they pay an older Jack Silvagni

3

Jack Silvagni

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

176.9

3star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

MG

91.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

131.4

3star

$300k above market for 5 years to play the same position as Josh Battle

24

Josh Battle

Age

27

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

because they’re in ‘win now’ mode.

Not convinced at all there’s some grand plan behind anything.

 

[grassman75]

Inconsistent

Imagine him with Essendon mids….esprcially if Merrett leaves. He’s not even in Brissys top 10

 

[iambrilliant]

Essendope have offered Zac Bailey $1.3m/year over 6 years

Dylan Shiel 2.0

 

[Mofra]

Last year they low-balled Josh Battle, only upping their offer at the last minute once he was already gone to the Hawks. He goes on to be All-Australian this year.

The next year they pay an older Jack Silvagni $300k above market for 5 years to play the same position as Josh Battle because they’re in ‘win now’ mode.

Not convinced at all there’s some grand plan behind anything.

They did get a good pick for Battle though

 

[MaxiBont]

They did get a good pick for Battle though

FA compo is another good one.

Saints got pick 8 for Battle and we get pick 17 for Smith because that’s all Geelong had.

 

[TiAn_]

They did get a good pick for Battle though

I’d take the AA key defender over the magic beans and that was also the ‘win now’ move. It doesn’t all seem like part of one cohesive plan.

 

[adogsfan5]

 

[_Mike_]

Who St Kilda are trading for and how much they’re paying isn’t what this thread is about, so let’s keep on track about the Bulldogs list pls.

If the club has passed on JSOS because of medical issues I’m ok with that.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Merrett is an option if the Butters mission fails.

And tbh I’d like him more.

 

[Golden_6]

Merrett is an option if the Butters mission fails.

And tbh I’d like him more.

Look Merrett is a gun but he's 30 years old.

Losing multiple first round picks for Butters is easier to stomach because you're still getting 8 years of elite footy. Merrett might have 2-3 years at top level left and Essendon would rightfully demand the world.

 

[MaxiBont]

Merrett is an option if the Butters mission fails.

And tbh I’d like him more.

Butters is 5 years younger and has been playing better than Merrett.

I’d be willing to pay more for Butters instead of paying less for Merrett.

 

[AFDogs]

Let's just get Butters at all cost. Would be the biggest recruit in our clubs history.

 

[Anja_Nees]

I like the idea from the Saints. You can only stay in purgatory for so long. I think Silvagni is solid for them, given they lost Battle.

The problem is TDK isn’t much of an upgrade on Marshall and Ryan is a meh addition. I’m not sure there’s a great deal of improvement to come from these moves.

One thing about the Saints (and Melbourne in the post Daniher era) is that they’ve torched a lot of first rounders, and the question is whether those players might have come on at other clubs.

I don’t think they can just draft a bit better or bring in bigger names.

I heard some interesting things from an ex player of ours in the McCartney era, including that a lot of the older players who left in 2014 would openly push back against his ideas. Blowing up the club was the best thing for us.

Can’t help but think the Saints need an implosion to get better, so they can rethink everything. They’ve tried going to the draft and they’ve tried raiding other clubs. Same result.

 

[Redders98]

Let's just get Butters at all cost. Would be the biggest recruit in our clubs history.

This.

It’s about time the club be aggressive with chasing a big name player no matter the cost. If you have a player like Butters who’s clearly shown an interest in coming home, you throw the kitchen sink at him, couldn’t care less if it’s multiple high picks (current and futures) and even a player as steak knives, just get it done. He’s the type of player that moves the needle in the right direction. We have plenty of young talent on the list to keep us in good stead for the foreseeable future.

Dunno if anyone remembers the last time we sold the farm for a high value recruit, I think he may have helped us win a flag but I could be wrong.

Get it done dogs.

 

[grassman75]

FA compo is another good one.

Saints got pick 8 for Battle and we get pick 17 for Smith because that’s all Geelong had.

And they want to change F/S because it’s unfair….

I honestly believe if they go down that path, they need to make sure that every team has a pick in round 1 going from last to first before any compo comes in so that if you have a FS bid in the first round you have to use your first rounder. Teams can barter to move their pick around in the first 18 but can’t get rid of it or get more than 1.

Don’t **** with Father Son

 

[Doggy]

And they want to change F/S because it’s unfair….

I honestly believe if they go down that path, they need to make sure that every team has a pick in round 1 going from last to first before any compo comes in so that if you have a FS bid in the first round you have to use your first rounder. Teams can barter to move their pick around in the first 18 but can’t get rid of it or get more than 1.

Don’t **** with Father Son

The one or 2 father sons a year is nothing.

It's the northern academies that are depleting the first round

 

[Mofra]

Let's just get Butters at all cost. Would be the biggest recruit in our clubs history.

Only if he wins a Grand Final.

Tom Boyd will be hard to top.

 

[grassman75]

The one or 2 father sons a year is nothing.

It's the northern academies that are depleting the first round

And the priority picks for average players

 

[Doggy]

And the priority picks for average players

Saints only.just set up their father son academy. They would have had some of their own over the years (Lowe, Everitt, Peckett come to mind) but they did not develop them and now they want everyone else to pay for their incompetence

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I'm wondering if packaging up Marra in a broader trade might be our best option. We'd probably get next to nothing for him alone. But if he was packaged up as part of bigger trade (e.g. our first plus Marra for someone), then it might tip the balance and allow the other club to sell some hope that they also get Marra.

 

[Dogsman16]

I'm wondering if packaging up Marra in a broader trade might be our best option. We'd probably get next to nothing for him alone. But if he was packaged up as part of bigger trade (e.g. our first plus Marra for someone), then it might tip the balance and allow the other club to sell some hope that they also get Marra.

His worth is less than zero.

He had the opportunity to play some level of football this year and didn’t take it.

I’m sure all clubs have a huge number of questions regarding his desire to play football at all.

 

[BigFloppa]

I'm wondering if packaging up Marra in a broader trade might be our best option. We'd probably get next to nothing for him alone. But if he was packaged up as part of bigger trade (e.g. our first plus Marra for someone), then it might tip the balance and allow the other club to sell some hope that they also get Marra.

We'd need to give up our first rounder in any Marra deal to convince another club to take him with nothing coming back. Something like the Bowes deal.