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Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)
- Thread starter _Mike_
- Start date
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I can tell you as a fact that his dad was the driving force behind Dunks leaving and it was for more money… all this sh1t about it being because we were unfit and unprofessional is bullsh1t drummed up by people that hate Bevo and try to point the finger at him.
I really don’t get the attitude by some posters that Sanders is this untouchable that we shouldn’t trade no matter what.
I think some people let the fanboy seep in a bit, the same happened with Khamis, seeing people on here and on social media asking why Khamis isn’t getting more games (when his deficiencies that keep him out are well established).
Based on what I’ve heard and also the information we have seen publicly (selections, BnF), the club does not rate him as highly as posters on here do.
Which begs the question, why did we draft him?
I think some people let the fanboy seep in a bit, the same happened with Khamis, seeing people on here and on social media asking why Khamis isn’t getting more games (when his deficiencies that keep him out are well established).
Based on what I’ve heard and also the information we have seen publicly (selections, BnF), the club does not rate him as highly as posters on here do.
Which begs the question, why did we draft him?
For the first time probably ever, I’m gloves off, no attachment to any current player, and just blooody make us better for the short term.
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Why did the Saints draft Billings over Bont?
It’s a lot easier to look at draft picks in hindsight.
At the time we couldn’t have known how good Freijah would be straight away and that we would get Kennedy the season after.
Sanders hasn’t come on as much I’d hope but I have no doubt he’ll end up as a good player.
I also don’t think he is untouchable if it made us better in the short term and gave us a real crack at a premiership.
Everyone and their dog knows Nick Watson was our target.
But there wasn’t a key defender of any sort below Sanders in the draft? Or a midfielder with a greater point of difference?
Funny I was trying to think of a comparison players yesterday and Parish was what I came up with too.
the Sanders talk is a bit tricky in that we’ve been spoiled by talents like Naughts, Darcy, Freijah etc (for recent-ish examples) who burst on to the scene. Can’t expect every 2nd year player to be that good.
I do think the internal love for Sanders has fizzled over the last couple of years though as we’ve realised his projected archetype. I do think we have up too much to draft an inside mid with his strengths and weaknesses. Though there were some interesting signs in the first half of the season as he hit the scoreboard.
But he has this inherent preference for the backwards handball and doesn’t have much of a defensive game. I think it was a slight draft misstep which is very unlike us.
Freijah and Ed can do the same contested stuff but have point of differences that really elevate them.
I expect Sanders to play a lot of games for someone. I don’t think it’ll be for us. Maybe in a few years this is incorrect but right now he’s very high floor but a middling ceiling. Hes just the kind of mid that teams don’t spend significant assets on any more. It’s why we traded Macrae - who is better and taller to boot. But at this stage of his career, on the contract he’s on, and what we needed in our midfield, it didn’t make a whole lot of sense to tie up CBA opportunities and big $$$ into him. Kennedy became a shrewd acquisition on half the cost and more of a threat forward of the ball.
We have lost some good young mids in recent times due to lack of opportunity in the middle. But there are a few factors there: The last second Treloar trade (which paid off). Libba might be going at an elite level longer than we expected. And the emergence of Ed and Freijah.
Sanders I expect joins Lipinski, Dunkley, Smith in the list of young mids we’ve drafted frustrated by some combination of the above. We’ve tried to balance the long term health of our midfield considering Libbas injury history, but the mad man refuses to back down. He also can’t play any other position so he’s an immovable object in the middle. Bont can, but we need him there. Treloar was an AA level player that you couldn’t justifiably shift out, and now Ed is too.
I wouldn’t give Sanders up for the sake of it but we know that he’s going to be Tassie bound if he doesn’t get a full time midfield gig soon. So we have to think about what that return looks like now vs when that time comes. Could be worth it.
I do think the internal love for Sanders has fizzled over the last couple of years though as we’ve realised his projected archetype. I do think we have up too much to draft an inside mid with his strengths and weaknesses. Though there were some interesting signs in the first half of the season as he hit the scoreboard.
But he has this inherent preference for the backwards handball and doesn’t have much of a defensive game. I think it was a slight draft misstep which is very unlike us.
Freijah and Ed can do the same contested stuff but have point of differences that really elevate them.
I expect Sanders to play a lot of games for someone. I don’t think it’ll be for us. Maybe in a few years this is incorrect but right now he’s very high floor but a middling ceiling. Hes just the kind of mid that teams don’t spend significant assets on any more. It’s why we traded Macrae - who is better and taller to boot. But at this stage of his career, on the contract he’s on, and what we needed in our midfield, it didn’t make a whole lot of sense to tie up CBA opportunities and big $$$ into him. Kennedy became a shrewd acquisition on half the cost and more of a threat forward of the ball.
We have lost some good young mids in recent times due to lack of opportunity in the middle. But there are a few factors there: The last second Treloar trade (which paid off). Libba might be going at an elite level longer than we expected. And the emergence of Ed and Freijah.
Sanders I expect joins Lipinski, Dunkley, Smith in the list of young mids we’ve drafted frustrated by some combination of the above. We’ve tried to balance the long term health of our midfield considering Libbas injury history, but the mad man refuses to back down. He also can’t play any other position so he’s an immovable object in the middle. Bont can, but we need him there. Treloar was an AA level player that you couldn’t justifiably shift out, and now Ed is too.
I wouldn’t give Sanders up for the sake of it but we know that he’s going to be Tassie bound if he doesn’t get a full time midfield gig soon. So we have to think about what that return looks like now vs when that time comes. Could be worth it.
After all they did to move up I don’t think they were in a position to take the risk reaching for a need rather than taking the established safe pick.
Unfortunately it means we missed out on not only Watson but also weren’t comfortable taking a Curtin and O’Sullivan.
Connor O’Sullivan was drafted at 11 but he’s more of an intercept defender.
Dan Curtin who was drafted at 8 looks to be the 2nd best player in the draft, maybe 1st if you’re not high on Harley Reid.
But I still back Sanders to become a good player here or somewhere else.
Attributes... certain skillsets are non-negotiable for onballers now. In the above examples both Billings and Sanders lack the pace, strength and kicking skills that the best onballers have. Thats not to say the Sanders will not improve, he will yet he will never beat Ashcroft on a final's day at the G. Bont can, Freijah could fight it out as they have the attributes to go with the best of the best.
That's a nice strike rate by our recruiters and coaching team.
4 of our recent first round selections disenfranchised with the club for various reasons.
My only knock on sanders is he doesn't have that do or die effort in the contest which he was supposedly drafted for. He is meant to be the libba replacement, yes he can get the ball, but sometimes there is no desperation scrapping in close. But, he is still a kid, so I don't know whether letting him go is the right move, depends what you get for him.
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- Sep 27, 2005
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This makes me laugh. On what planet would Edmund or Cornes have any idea about whether a player was 'in love' with a club or vice versa? Sometimes the s*** that comes out of these 'experts' mouths is astonishing.
Dogs_R_Us
Space Traveller
A bit of an unfortunate pattern.
Dunkley not getting enough midfield, having to chop out ruck.
Smith not getting enough mid.
Jamarra not getting a game for quite a long time.
Sanders not getting enough mid.
West was also disgruntled for some time.
Is the tail trying to wag the dog here? How can we discourage this?
As soon as we blocked his trade to Essendon, where he was going to be on a deal close to Bont/Macrae money, I thought to myself we won’t be able to keep him next time.
We had some loose cannons in the side but every club does and given he had played in two grand finals with us at the time he left it never really made sense he was leaving for that reason. It’s not like Port and Brisbane were a dominant force at the time. We rolled them both in ‘21.
Both BS artists but being fair, I never really liked him cracking it for being subbed out.
I still think he’ll be a very good player but if he is collateral that helps us get what we want in the next 12 months so be it.
Rick the Dog
Draftee
- Sep 29, 2016
- 13
- 14
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- Western Bulldogs
Sometimes elite athletes come with somewhat inflated egos. I am not impressed by young players who believe it is their exclusive right to determine what position/role they should be playing. Also, how many of us have ever been in a workplace and with workmates whom we haven’t really been enamoured with.
I think we can cross Jamarra off the list. His situation is quite unique.
The reality is that we’ve been very strong in the middle for a long time and that’s squeezed players out.
I don’t think it had much to do with Dunkley though. It might have in 2020, but by the time he left he was a BnF winner and entrenched in the middle.
I think we should be aggressive at trading players who are surplus to our needs more than anything. If we’d been more pushy while Dunkley and Smith were under contract we would have done better at the trade table.
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BigFloppa
All Australian
- Apr 11, 2025
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In behavioural economics we would explain this by two closely linked phenomena that we call the Endowment Effect and Loss Aversion
Edmund gets good mail on us to be fair. Was the first to go with Baz going to the Cats.
Dogs_R_Us
Space Traveller
Not so sure about that. He’s a smart player, positions well and doesn’t shirk a contest. He hasn’t quite got the body yet but it will develop.
Perhaps players aren’t given a realistic picture of their possible trajectory. If he’s told he’s going to be a mid that’s what he’ll expect. But as we know, things can change very quickly and team needs have to come first. Maybe Libba’s longevity has been a stumbling block for Sanders. Ditto the emergence of Ed.
Predictions are dangerous, especially in football.
Strongly disagree that he doesn’t shirk a contest. Had some absolute shockers this season which seriously affected my estimations of him as a player.
Oliver has chosen GWS over Pies.
He’s quite likeable and not in the same category as others.
He’s not one to make something up but I’m always sceptical about their sources (is it a manager, an ex player, family member etc and do they have an agenda or axe to grind).
Cornes has been Single White Female for Bevo for five years and I’m quite sure outright lies.
