Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Dogs Rule]

The AFL is the epitome of a group think environment.

Almost every year the teams with older playing lists outperform the younger lists, yet the AFL community continues to openly criticise coaches\clubs who keep older players and heap praise on the cubs that pursue youth programs. Why?

The reason nobody wanted to take May on is that they would have potentially copped a heap of bad press if it didn't work out well, either on or off the field, and it's an extremely risk averse environment.

Personally, I'd have been prepared to take that relatively low risk for a potentially very high reward if it worked out for the best.

I don't think it's an age thing with May, it's more of the fact that he's a d***head. On and off the field.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Did you watch our backline this year when our season was on the line?

Im still amusing myself arguing with people on an on-line football forum in the post-season.

What do you think?

I'd have selected the 2025 version of Steven May in our best 22 in a heartbeat.

Then Id have to question the judgement of anybody who would select May in our side next year.

Culture is a tricky thing, so many of the claims that people\clubs like to make don't tend to actually align well with their actions.

If theres one thing wrong with the tribal nature football supporters. It's their never ending willingness to hold their noses at obvious stenches if it furthers their desire for par asocial success. In professional circles its known as the "he might be a campaigner, but at least he's our campaigner" syndrome.

So much talk about having inclusive accepting cultures, just so long as everyone does exactly as they are told. Lots of talk about embracing internal honest feedback right up until the point that they actually experience it. Who knows what was said to May to prompt him to respond with such cutting appraisal, we will never know.

Blaming the victim is unbecoming.

We do know he has played extremely well against us on numerous occasions. Seriously, the bloke is a gun premiership player who has played at the highest level for many years and shown himself to be very durable.

Sure. He was an incredible player for a long time.

That was then this is now.

Im sure you look back fondly on the glory days of Liam Jones intercept marking and being the corner stone of our defence. Are you suggesting that we should be playing him as a KPD next year. Because anybody paying attention could see that his form and ability to do the things he once could had completely fallen off a cliff. So much so that Ryan Gardner was the standout defender when they played together at Footscray last season. Ryan Gardner.

Which means that he is dedicated and works very hard at being a professional. That's not exactly culture destroying behaviour.

So professional that his club put him on the footpath with a free to a good home sign around his neck. And every single side in the competition said nope. And some of those teams have much worse KPD stocks than we do.

At this point I think you're being obtuse for the sake of obtuseness.

Lots of people criticised Brian Lake's character and said he was washed up when we pushed him out but he still went on to be the key missing ingredient in Hawthorn's triple premiership team.

When Brian Lake retired. He was younger than Steven May is right now. And because I understand how time works, he's only getting older, slower and angrier.

The thing that they have in common is that Lake and Hawthorn knew his time was up and that the game had passed him by. And that time nobody in their right mind was looking for him to go around again.

May hasn't taken the hint and is holding Melbourne (As is his right.) to his ridiculous contract. A contract that they tried to rid themselves of.

We will never know if May could have been that for us because we were too timid to take the chance.

Confucius say: One mans timidity is another's display of thank **** we dodged that bullet.

The AFL is the epitome of a group think environment.

Go on say it. It's the woke mind virus. Isn't it?

Almost every year the teams with older playing lists outperform the younger lists, yet the AFL community continues to openly criticise coaches\clubs who keep older players and heap praise on the cubs that pursue youth programs. Why?

Because players in their peak years are infinitely better than players in their declining years.

This stuff ain't that hard to figure out.

The reason nobody wanted to take May on is that they would have potentially copped a heap of bad press if it didn't work out well, either on or off the field, and it's an extremely risk averse environment.

No. The reason was that his performance had declined to such an extent that he was spending more time finger pointing and berating teammates for their inability to provide cover for his decline.

Oh and he's a culture cancer.

Personally, I'd have been prepared to take that relatively low risk for a potentially very high reward if it worked out for the best.

When 'if' has to do all the heavy lifting in your closing argument.

Then Im glad that you're not our list manger. Or my lawyer.

"Your honour. If my client did murder that hitchhiker, then he did it out of an abundance of kindness."

 

[bresker]

I'm quite surprised that players like Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

34

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

, May, Frost, Goldstein etc want to play on. It was uncommon for players of that age bracket to want to continue, once delisted, but a few years ago.

I know players look after themselves better nowadays , but come on you old fossils and bugger off into that good night. Your bodies will thank you when you're 50.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I'm quite surprised that players like Liam Jones, May, Frost, Goldstein etc want to play on. It was uncommon for players of that age bracket to want to continue, once delisted, but a few years ago.

I know players look after themselves better nowadays , but come on you old fossils and bugger off into that good night. Your bodies will thank you when you're 50.

They know that they're never going to see footballer money ever again.

Other than perhaps May, none of these guys would've made retire at 35 money.

 

[Philthy1]

Gee, it’s going to be a long off-season…

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Almost every year the teams with older playing lists outperform the younger lists,

I mean, I'm generally of the view that teams assume the cliff is coming too soon for a player, and look to fill their place in the team with a younger player that may never improve even to the point that they're as good as the old player is currently.

But we're talking about 31 year olds who had a 30 year old season that was 95% as good as their peak season whey they were 27 or whatever.

Not Steven May who has clearly had four years of year-on-year decline when he did peak age 30 and will be 34.

Proffessor you still keep saying "I would have played 2025 Steven May in our backline." But we're not getting 2025 Steven May, we're getting 2026 Steven May.

Each year from 2022-2025 was worse than the year before, almost identical to the average age decline for any player in their 30's. You have not offered any suggestion why there wouldn't be a similar decline from 2025 to 2026.

 

[DueWest]

Frost played 24 games in 2024, 11th in the best and fairest and won best clubman. Would be more than happy if he signed a a short term deal with us, still has some good footy left I think.

And was considered a weak link so they went and recruited better players for 2025 and he played 2 games as sub.

Given what Reagan has said over trade period I would be astounded if we picked him up

 

[Westerndog11]

Derksen has been delisted by GWS.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Put Frost, Derksen and May in a room at VUWO with a ladder, and a rookie contract stuck to the ceiling. Turn the lights out and tell them the first one out of the room holding the contract is the winner...

 

[DiamondDogs8]

Derksen has been delisted by GWS.

Would be my personal choice as a DFA.

 

[weltschmerz]

Isn't Derksen an interceptor?

 

[Foxman98]

Put Frost, Derksen and May in a room at VUWO with a ladder, and a rookie contract stuck to the ceiling. Turn the lights out and tell them the first one out of the room holding the contract is the winner...

May still has a contract at the Dees
(Poor them)

 

[Dogs Rule]

Least Derksen is youngish, right?

 

[Foxman98]

Did you watch our backline this year when our season was on the line?
I'd have selected the 2025 version of Steven May in our best 22 in a heartbeat.

Culture is a tricky thing, so many of the claims that people\clubs like to make don't tend to actually align well with their actions.

So much talk about having inclusive accepting cultures, just so long as everyone does exactly as they are told. Lots of talk about embracing internal honest feedback right up until the point that they actually experience it. Who knows what was said to May to prompt him to respond with such cutting appraisal, we will never know.

We do know he has played extremely well against us on numerous occasions. Seriously, the bloke is a gun premiership player who has played at the highest level for many years and shown himself to be very durable.

Which means that he is dedicated and works very hard at being a professional. That's not exactly culture destroying behaviour.

Lots of people criticised Brian Lake's character and said he was washed up when we pushed him out but he still went on to be the key missing ingredient in Hawthorn's triple premiership team.

We will never know if May could have been that for us because we were too timid to take the chance.

This was Steven May's experience when told he can move

 

[Testekill]

Isn't Derksen an interceptor?

Most played as a forward but moved behind the ball this year, he was mostly an interceptor but got plenty of time left so I think we can train him to be more of close checking defender.

 

[scratchie]

Im still amusing myself arguing with people on an on-line football forum in the post-season.

What do you think?



Then Id have to question the judgement of anybody who would select May in our side next year.



If theres one thing wrong with the tribal nature football supporters. It's their never ending willingness to hold their noses at obvious stenches if it furthers their desire for par asocial success. In professional circles its known as the "he might be a campaigner, but at least he's our campaigner" syndrome.



Blaming the victim is unbecoming.



Sure. He was an incredible player for a long time.

That was then this is now.

Im sure you look back fondly on the glory days of Liam Jones intercept marking and being the corner stone of our defence. Are you suggesting that we should be playing him as a KPD next year. Because anybody paying attention could see that his form and ability to do the things he once could had completely fallen off a cliff. So much so that Ryan Gardner was the standout defender when they played together at Footscray last season. Ryan Gardner.



So professional that his club put him on the footpath with a free to a good home sign around his neck. And every single side in the competition said nope. And some of those teams have much worse KPD stocks than we do.

At this point I think you're being obtuse for the sake of obtuseness.



When Brian Lake retired. He was younger than Steven May is right now. And because I understand how time works, he's only getting older, slower and angrier.

The thing that they have in common is that Lake and Hawthorn knew his time was up and that the game had passed him by. And that time nobody in their right mind was looking for him to go around again.

May hasn't taken the hint and is holding Melbourne (As is his right.) to his ridiculous contract. A contract that they tried to rid themselves of.




Confucius say: One mans timidity is another's display of thank **** we dodged that bullet.




Go on say it. It's the woke mind virus. Isn't it?



Because players in their peak years are infinitely better than players in their declining years.

This stuff ain't that hard to figure out.



No. The reason was that his performance had declined to such an extent that he was spending more time finger pointing and berating teammates for their inability to provide cover for his decline.

Oh and he's a culture cancer.


When 'if' has to do all the heavy lifting in your closing argument.

Then Im glad that you're not our list manger. Or my lawyer.

"Your honour. If my client did murder that hitchhiker, then he did it out of an abundance of kindness."

I m not a fan of May but you don’t need to outright lie to not want us to pick him up. There is nothing in his figures to suggest he has fallen off any cliff. He just played fewer games. Otherwise his stats are much the same since 2021

 

[weltschmerz]

Most played as a forward but moved behind the ball this year, he was mostly an interceptor but got plenty of time left so I think we can train him to be more of close checking defender.

I thought the idea of someone becoming a full back after not excelling by 20 was outlandish, if you go by how people here talk about Busslinger

 

[Foxman98]

I m not a fan of May but you don’t need to outright lie to not want us to pick him up. There is nothing in his figures to suggest he has fallen off any cliff. He just played fewer games. Otherwise his stats are much the same since 2021

His 1 on 1 loss % doubled from last year to this year

 

[Foxman98]

Lual has officially been delisted

Thank you Adrian if you didn't take him we wouldn't have taken Freijah

Also lets sign him up to Footscray and give the kid a shot

 

[VitalDread]

Time to come home Lual
Footscray calling your name

 

[Bulldogs85]

I remember myself and a few others were dirty on Essendon when they drafted Lual goes to show what I know

 

[Redders98]

Mitch Hannan returning to the club in an off field player welfare role.

 

[Mofra]

The reason nobody wanted to take May on is that they would have potentially copped a heap of bad press if it didn't work out well, either on or off the field, and it's an extremely risk averse environment.

No. The reason nobody took on May (even ignoring the on field showdown) is because based on his last few months, some people in the industry think the guy should be in prison and some of his current teammates may be uncomfortable playing with him - let alone new ones.

Tarryn Thomas is very talented but nobody is climbing over themselves to sign him up.

I'll leave it there.

 

[Proffessor]

I mean, I'm generally of the view that teams assume the cliff is coming too soon for a player, and look to fill their place in the team with a younger player that may never improve even to the point that they're as good as the old player is currently.

But we're talking about 31 year olds who had a 30 year old season that was 95% as good as their peak season whey they were 27 or whatever.

Not Steven May who has clearly had four years of year-on-year decline when he did peak age 30 and will be 34.

Proffessor you still keep saying "I would have played 2025 Steven May in our backline." But we're not getting 2025 Steven May, we're getting 2026 Steven May.

Each year from 2022-2025 was worse than the year before, almost identical to the average age decline for any player in their 30's. You have not offered any suggestion why there wouldn't be a similar decline from 2025 to 2026.

Not saying he would turn back the clock. However he wouldn’t have needed to.
The last couple of seasons his performances suffered from playing in a struggling team. Coming to the Bulldogs with a dominant midfield and strong forward line would have presented a setup tailor made for May’s game.

Plus with guys like Busslinger and Walker waiting in the wings he wouldn’t have needed to play every game. We could have managed him appropriately, in a remarkably similar way to how Lake was managed at Hawthorn.

Lake easily played his best footy at the Dogs, but he had his peak team success at the Hawks because they only needed him to provide that extra class in the big games. Similar to another triple premiership player, Clark Keating with Brisbane. That’s all we would have needed to get from May, and it wouldn’t have been too much to expect from him.