Recruiting Trade & Free Agency VIII

[Lore]

ATTENTION OPPOSITION POSTERS: You are on the Essendon board - not the draft board, or the main board or your club board. You are welcome to post here but you will mind your manners or you will be carded. Don't waltz in here telling the locals what's happening/not happening, what's dumb etc. By the same token sealioning will also not be tolerated so be warned. You do not have equal standing here no matter how right you think you are.

Spoiler: AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY KEY DATES 2020

Draft Combine
Tuesday October 1 - Friday October 4

AFL Grand Final
Saturday October 24

Free Agency Window
Friday October 30 – Friday November 6

AFL Trade Period (Players and picks)
Wednesday November 4 – 7.30pm Thursday November 12

List Lodgement 1
Wednesday November 25

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Thursday November 26 - Sunday November 29

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Monday November 30

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Monday November 30 - Tuesday December 1

AFL Trade Period (Picks only)
Concludes Thursday December 3

National Draft
7pm Wednesday December 9

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
12pm Thursday December 10

Final List Lodgement
Mid-December (tbc)

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
Wednesday January 6, 2021 – will conclude prior to the start of the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership Season

Spoiler: DRAFT ORDER

Any issues with it post in this thread:

Draft discussion goes here: Draft Watch

Father/Son & NGA discussion goes here: James Hird Academy (Father/Son and Next Generation)

Poll results: Who should stay? | Which key forward do you want? | What would you give up to get Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

?

 

[Sporno 4 Pyros]

Ross Lyon summed up re-building perfectly on FC a few weeks ago. Pick 4 non-tradable players (hardest trainers etc) and everyone else is potential trade (at the right price)
McGrath, Ridley, ?, ?

Saad, Merrett and Shiel are some others who train hard, are professional and set a good example.
If Daniher leaves it may be time for a re-set. Do a GWS, ask who’s in and who wants out? Be pragmatic

 

[BrunoV]

fair point
I feel the loss of Saad, bad as it is, doesn't necessarily reset us.
Daniher is the key cog. He goes, our fwd structure falls apart.

I tend to disagree with any notion of trading Merrett.
He's shown an ability to lead a young team, and he's the one with both time & ceiling on his side.

Shiel, Smith, Tippa (Tippa would kill me though) - they are who they are. Their age is against them in a rebuild for us. I see the point in exploring trades for them.

I'd be looking at a contender who may have interest in Hurley. We don't protect him enough. When we turn it on for 5m in the season, he looks solid.
In a side like the Dogs, Pies, Cats, etc. he'd get a good 2-3 seasons on the park i imagine.

I reckon no Saad is essentially full rebuild territory. It's not just the loss of Saad but the loss of McKenna as well.

How are we scoring next year with average half back run unless its from a clean centre break? It was bad enough this year.

Playing Smith at half back is that novelty act that cooked senior players sometime get to benefit from. Doesn't really add anything to the team and even at his best he's not a dynamic runner (as Saad and McKenna were). He'll probably just end up freezing Redman out of the side. Redman is the closest thing we have to a ready-made replacement and he certainly does not have the top end speed.

Guelfi is a depth player who will probably play 150 games because Essington.

The best possible replacement is a completely untested Irishman, McQuillan. He's not going in to next year with any meaningful experience under his belt because [game plan/finals/premierships/awesome depth?].

 

[lenny2013]

The trickiest one for me will be Hep, looks absolutely cooked.
In true Essendon form it will take us another 3 years to work this out.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Would be honestly get a pick sub 40 for Hurley?

 

[citizen-erased]

I reckon no Saad is essentially full rebuild territory. It's not just the loss of Saad but the loss of McKenna as well.

How are we scoring next year with average half back run unless its from a clean centre break? It was bad enough this year.

Playing Smith at half back is that novelty act that cooked senior players sometime get to benefit from. Doesn't really add anything to the team and even at his best he's not a dynamic runner (as Saad and McKenna were). He'll probably just end up freezing Redman out of the side. Redman is the closest thing we have to a ready-made replacement and he certainly does not have the top end speed.

Guelfi is a depth player who will probably play 150 games because Essington.

The best possible replacement is a completely untested Irishman, McQuillan. He's not going in to next year with any meaningful experience under his belt because [game plan/finals/premierships/awesome depth?].

Loss of McKenna and Saad = give up on the run and rebound from HB game.
we can't replace the two, so we need to look at defence and the way we operate out of the middle differently

 

[Mercurial89]

In retrospect, I feel we should've just sacked Worsfold last year, got 9 and this year's pick 4 for Daniher and used that as a platform to build a new, clean era under Rutten.

Currently, we've been left in no-man's land in all senses.

Things always are easier in hindsight.
If Daniher gets on the park, and covid doesn't happen so the players look a little more settled i say we have another average type year and everyone looks at it and goes yeah that was probably fine, new coach coming in carry on. the decision to keep Daniher and the coaching transition was acceptable.

At the time, it was a player springing a last minute request on the club, after advising them mid year where there was smoke that it was all good. Not just any player, one of the most famous names in our clubs history, and the key cog you based your entire drafting and trading strategy around with no outlet for replacement in the immediate term. He wasnt completely cooked either, so its possible he gets his 2017 form back and you are than smacked with that for the next 5 years.
I dont see how you anyone could stand back and weigh all that up (at the time) and think the club did the wrong thing. Its the one time where extracting the absolute maximum in any trade was actually warranted. So warranted, we had media on our side.

The Worsfold thing was unfortunate timing, with media pressure again forcing the club to blink. He was probably always a stop gap coach, but the club was timid on pulling the trigger. I dont really blame them after the saga for that (they should have been strong enough, but i dont hang them for it).

Its now in hindsight we can sit back and judge, because in the current situation, it would be better if we got some currency into the club to build the list. Back then it was a different situation. A lot has changed with one year of data.

 

[BrunoV]

Loss of McKenna and Saad = give up on the run and rebound from HB game.
we can't replace the two, so we need to look at defence and the way we operate out of the middle differently

That still leaves us at something close to a rebuild doesn't it?

We're just as likely to get 22 game solid to game breaking games from McQuillan next year as what we are a midfield miracle. We've basically had the best midfield available all year, remembering that Heppell was already being moved to a wing and he's always been a B grade player. Almost every team would have a midfielder of his quality not playing.

 

[BomberARMY]

Heaven forbid an opposition fan could hold an opinion about something and be closer to being right than not.

Yeah, go over to their board and share your honest opinion about their list and see how it goes down. Tell them they need to get rid of their best midfielder (Cripps) and start a rebuild..

 

[The Prosecutor]

Every media scribe said as much at the time, and they wouldn't allow anything other than that to happen..

If they were left to their own devices I reckon the handover would have worked fine- it's the media constantly probing and pushing and picking (and results) that makes it a failure. Even when we were 4-1 most questions to players were in regards to the coaching structure...they were desperate to find holes and expose it

Note: this turned into a much longer, comprehensive and somewhat an emotional reply than I anticipated that might not entirely fit in to this thread. Apologies.

I can't agree with you here, you're essentially suggesting that if we found someway to suspend critique and questioning, then somehow everything would've been a success.

A vacuum of silence doesn't change the serious flaws in our list, the performance produced, the cultural embedded within the club and the diminished ability for the incoming coach to be able to build upon a vision and receive buy-in from all stake holders to affect necessary change..

No different to say the inauguration of a new US President. The first 100 days are the most productive and is when the new incumbent has the most political capital to effect change and press an agenda. We wasted Rutten's political capital by having it tied to the end of Worsfold's era - potentially even having it now seen as an extension of the Worsfold era.

If we made the decision at the time, we could have done the Daniher trade, accepted that we aren't where we envisioned and need to do some further work to ensure we get to where we want. We could have laid the gauntlet down that this season we would be focused on team defence and would be looking forward to seeing how the players respond to this new ethos - laying the groundwork to potentially move on a player such as Merrett should it be deemed he has been too far embroiled in our unaccountable midfielder culture.

Last year was statement time, instead we succumbed as we have for the past couple of decades to having a few extra dollars in the bank and the belief that because we are Essendon, we will have the gumption to magically become good.

With that lack of statement and clear intent, we also now have the added benefit of public and private instability, and a genuine asset like Saad uneasy with the lack of clarity that resigning with Essendon is in his best interest.

Now, Rutten has been left with the keys to the ship, with the aura of a new coach lost before he officially started and the club stuck half way between thinking it's a premiership contender and facing the bleak reality of a list and culture that amounts to nothing more than mediocre.

Rutten has one last chance at making a statement to establish his own identity this trade period, otherwise he is tied to this Worsfold era - for better or for likely worse.

As an aside, it makes me very uneasy that his boss is the same bloke from Richmond who publicly stated they were focusing on 5-8 finishes instead of doing what they believe needed to be done to win a flag as they didn't trust the fan base to have the patience.

 

[The Prosecutor]

Would be honestly get a pick sub 40 for Hurley?

Yes. But you're looking at a club like the Bulldogs who feel they are a piece or two away and would be willing to part with a pick 10ish to make it happen.

 

[Milanista28]

Even if Merrett was available why would he go to Carlton? All 17 clubs would want him, Cats have the trade currency and would be able to entice him fairly easily I think.

 

[eth-dog]

Yes. But you're looking at a club like the Bulldogs who feel they are a piece or two away and would be willing to part with a pick 10ish to make it happen.

If it were the Dogs I reckon they'd try to split that into say 15 and a second for points and then trade 15 for Hurley

 

[The Prosecutor]

If it were the Dogs I reckon they'd try to split that into say 15 and a second for points and then trade 15 for Hurley

Bingo, especially as they have the top draft prospect locked up, they can afford to take the 'punt' on Hurley.

 

[Howard Moon]

Note: this turned into a much longer, comprehensive and somewhat an emotional reply than I anticipated that might not entirely fit in to this thread. Apologies.

I can't agree with you here, you're essentially suggesting that if we found someway to suspend critique and questioning, then somehow everything would've been a success.

A vacuum of silence doesn't change the serious flaws in our list, the performance produced, the cultural embedded within the club and the diminished ability for the incoming coach to be able to build upon a vision and receive buy-in from all stake holders to affect necessary change..

No different to say the inauguration of a new US President. The first 100 days are the most productive and is when the new incumbent has the most political capital to effect change and press an agenda. We wasted Rutten's political capital by having it tied to the end of Worsfold's era - potentially even having it now seen as an extension of the Worsfold era.

If we made the decision at the time, we could have done the Daniher trade, accepted that we aren't where we envisioned and need to do some further work to ensure we get to where we want. We could have laid the gauntlet down that this season we would be focused on team defence and would be looking forward to seeing how the players respond to this new ethos - laying the groundwork to potentially move on a player such as Merrett should it be deemed he has been too far embroiled in our unaccountable midfielder culture.

Last year was statement time, instead we succumbed as we have for the past couple of decades to having a few extra dollars in the bank and the belief that because we are Essendon, we will have the gumption to magically become good.

With that lack of statement and clear intent, we also now have the added benefit of public and private instability, and a genuine asset like Saad uneasy with the lack of clarity that resigning with Essendon is in his best interest.

Now, Rutten has been left with the keys to the ship, with the aura of a new coach lost before he officially started and the club stuck half way between thinking it's a premiership contender and facing the bleak reality of a list and culture that amounts to nothing more than mediocre.

Rutten has one last chance at making a statement to establish his own identity this trade period, otherwise he is tied to this Worsfold era - for better or for likely worse.

As an aside, it makes me very uneasy that his boss is the same bloke from Richmond who publicly stated they were focusing on 5-8 finishes instead of doing what they believe needed to be done to win a flag as they didn't trust the fan base to have the patience.

You've swayed me, so it was a worthwhile reply!

The thing I hadn't factored is new coach honeymoon period, nicks went half a year without a win but had honeymoon grace period, so he was ok

Rutten just wasted his through no fault of his own, straight into the fire with no protection

 

[Old Campaigner]

Wow, someone from Carlton 'greenshoots' Blues telling us how to rebuild... just got pumped by the bottom side... fmd did I just wake up in the twilight zone...

Their list is in far better shape than ours and will probably have a couple more premierships added to their tally before we’re in any position to win finals.

 

[Dons4days]

If we were to hit this as a rebuild draft

Priority pick for Joe - Pick 6
Saad to Geelong for 11 (if he's looking for success)
Fantasia to Crows for Dogs 2nd
Dogs 2nd, GCS 3rd & Hurley to Dogs for their 1st

Add Phillips, O'Driscoll, Perkins & Cox with picks 5, 6, 10 & 11.

Ridley Zerk Francis
Smith Stewart Redman
Langford Shiel Merrett
Snelling Cox Tippa
Stringer Jones Moz
Draper Parish McGrath
O'Driscoll Phillips Perkins Gleeson

How we take the squad forward (minus the likes of Zaka, Heppell and Hooker)

I like all of this but that Dogs picks is going to be one of the hottest assets of the trade period. I'd say almost every team will enquire, especially the teams with highly rated academy players that may attract an early bid ie Pies & Swans.

They had Derick Hine on the road to the draft podcast yesterday & he was talking about the pies finding a way to trade for another first rounder this year given they have McInness this year & their pick next year will most likely be spent on Daicos.

 

[BrunoV]

Yeah, go over to their board and share your honest opinion about their list and see how it goes down. Tell them they need to get rid of their best midfielder (Cripps) and start a rebuild..

They don't need to rebuild. Its been done. Now they've got to tinker, find a mid or 2 (the 5 unused top 20 picks on their list is a good place to look) add a small forward and get some game time into a key defender.

They're primed for a sustained run.

We're all over the place trying to play a style of footy that doesn't suit the list and key position stock that are old and/or potentially want out and a midfield balance out of whack.

 

[Yoda_]

Note: this turned into a much longer, comprehensive and somewhat an emotional reply than I anticipated that might not entirely fit in to this thread. Apologies.

I can't agree with you here, you're essentially suggesting that if we found someway to suspend critique and questioning, then somehow everything would've been a success.

A vacuum of silence doesn't change the serious flaws in our list, the performance produced, the cultural embedded within the club and the diminished ability for the incoming coach to be able to build upon a vision and receive buy-in from all stake holders to affect necessary change..

No different to say the inauguration of a new US President. The first 100 days are the most productive and is when the new incumbent has the most political capital to effect change and press an agenda. We wasted Rutten's political capital by having it tied to the end of Worsfold's era - potentially even having it now seen as an extension of the Worsfold era.

If we made the decision at the time, we could have done the Daniher trade, accepted that we aren't where we envisioned and need to do some further work to ensure we get to where we want. We could have laid the gauntlet down that this season we would be focused on team defence and would be looking forward to seeing how the players respond to this new ethos - laying the groundwork to potentially move on a player such as Merrett should it be deemed he has been too far embroiled in our unaccountable midfielder culture.

Last year was statement time, instead we succumbed as we have for the past couple of decades to having a few extra dollars in the bank and the belief that because we are Essendon, we will have the gumption to magically become good.

With that lack of statement and clear intent, we also now have the added benefit of public and private instability, and a genuine asset like Saad uneasy with the lack of clarity that resigning with Essendon is in his best interest.

Now, Rutten has been left with the keys to the ship, with the aura of a new coach lost before he officially started and the club stuck half way between thinking it's a premiership contender and facing the bleak reality of a list and culture that amounts to nothing more than mediocre.

Rutten has one last chance at making a statement to establish his own identity this trade period, otherwise he is tied to this Worsfold era - for better or for likely worse.

As an aside, it makes me very uneasy that his boss is the same bloke from Richmond who publicly stated they were focusing on 5-8 finishes instead of doing what they believe needed to be done to win a flag as they didn't trust the fan base to have the patience.

With all of this, it begs the question; Who was telling who where the list was/is at?
Coteries? the board? list management team? match committee?

 

[The Prosecutor]

With all of this, it begs the question; Who was telling who where the list was/is at?
Coteries? the board? list management team? match committee?

That's a good question in itself.

 

[Booplaz]

If it were the Dogs I reckon they'd try to split that into say 15 and a second for points and then trade 15 for Hurley

Dreaming.

 

[The Prosecutor]

I do wonder if the club at this point is simply trying to get the finals win monkey off our back while we have this list before potentially gutting it.

 

[eth-dog]

Dreaming.

Probably

 

[Snake Charmer]

Yes. But you're looking at a club like the Bulldogs who feel they are a piece or two away and would be willing to part with a pick 10ish to make it happen.

Don’t know about that. I think they will only be trading that pick to increase there points. So would be trading it for 2 decent later picks that nets them a good points gain.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Leave me out of the "full rebuild". Not a fan of them... they take five years and there's no guarantee it works anyway.

"Full rebuild" for me is getting hold of as many draft picks as you can via trade. I don't think we need to do that.

We have a fit, reasonable core of Draper, Francis, Ham, Langford, Tipungwuti, McGrath, Merrett, Parish, Ridley, Saad, Shiel, Smith, Snelling, Stringer and Zerk-Thatcher.

I don't think the club would be looking to rebuild by trading any of them. If somebody wants to leave, that's different.

Uncertainty around Daniher (body), Fantasia (body), Heppell (body), Hurley (age), Hooker (age).

The rest are probably fringe-ish.

We don't need a 'keep at all costs' or 'full rebuild' strategy. The core is decent and after that, just deal with each individual situation on its merits.

But most of all we need coaching and gameplan by a coaching team who know what they're doing.

 

[doug85]

Would be honestly get a pick sub 40 for Hurley?

Maybe. But not much more than that IMO.