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Trade hypotheticals

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Lumumba, 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick

For

Jono O'Rourke and Sam Frost

? Hard to rate players.
 
Gunstall555 said:
If clubs are still stuck in the dark ages of where they believe successful trading involves screwing over another club (Essendon, Collingwood, West Coast and Sydney) then good luck to them. Clubs that go in with a win/win mentality I believe will be the clubs that becomes winners when it comes to trading. It doesn't mean you can't go hard at the trade table, as long as you go hard and fair.
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Who has Collingwood screwed over in recent times?
 
Pricey97 said:
Who has Collingwood screwed over in recent times?
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They are known to be very difficult to trade with. Ask St Kilda with Luke Ball, or even GWS with Taylor Adams.
 
Dom PC said:
Mitchell is worth around pick 8-12 from my point of view. You are giving up Beams for Mitchell and a pick upgrade into the top 4 of the draft. It's not a horrible trade for you IMO. Fair enough if you want a bit extra though (maybe a 2nd rd pick up grade as well?).
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I'm guessing it depends on where Moore is nominated.
 

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Kristof said:
You say that with gunston as your avatar? That's rich. Hawthorn ripped off the crows with that trade.
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Adelaide got an upgrade on the pick they used to get Gunston. Hawthorn also gave up later picks. Adelaide had some bad luck with the kids they picked up with those picks.
 
Kristof said:
You say that with gunston as your avatar? That's rich. Hawthorn ripped off the crows with that trade.
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Honestly though, Adelaide have done themselves no favours at the trade table either. They traded for Angus Graham and Richard Tambling.

Fairness is something that the AFL need to look at when it comes to trading, especially if they are serious about equalisation. You cannot have rich clubs bending over poor clubs insinuating they accept a trade, or the player will walk and they receive nothing. I understand everyone wants to look after their own clubs, but that doesn't mean they have to compromise another.

An example of this is the three way trade between Adelaide, Richmond and St. Kilda in 2011.

Richmond receive Ivan Maric, a depth player at Adelaide who automatically assumed Number 1 ruck duties.
Adelaide receive Tom Lynch, a promising young forward who could slot in and be a best 22 player for them.
St. Kilda receive Pick 37, used to draft Jack Newnes, who is now one of their best young players in the side.

All 3 clubs would say that is a fair trade. St. Kilda probably a little less so, losing Tom Lynch, but they would be more than happy with Newnes, I am sure.
 
Gunstall555 said:
If clubs are still stuck in the dark ages of where they believe successful trading involves screwing over another club (Essendon, Collingwood, West Coast and Sydney) then good luck to them. Clubs that go in with a win/win mentality I believe will be the clubs that becomes winners when it comes to trading. It doesn't mean you can't go hard at the trade table, as long as you go hard and fair.
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Can you say we really were unfair? The Hawks trade for McEvoy would have been a win-win if not for McEvoy's form, Saints get 2 best 22 players and lose a ruckman that they have replaced, while the Hawks addressed an area of need with a good leader while losing a fringe player and a late 1st round pick.
 
Rahul said:
Can you say we really were unfair? The Hawks trade for McEvoy would have been a win-win if not for McEvoy's form, Saints get 2 best 22 players and lose a ruckman that they have replaced, while the Hawks addressed an area of need with a good leader while losing a fringe player and a late 1st round pick.
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I'm not saying the Saints are unfair at all, I was just responding to an earlier comment and that was basically along the lines of why should Pelchen care about who he screws over (paraphrasing of course)
 
Grockadoc said:
Honestly though, Adelaide have done themselves no favours at the trade table either. They traded for Angus Graham and Richard Tambling.

Fairness is something that the AFL need to look at when it comes to trading, especially if they are serious about equalisation. You cannot have rich clubs bending over poor clubs insinuating they accept a trade, or the player will walk and they receive nothing. I understand everyone wants to look after their own clubs, but that doesn't mean they have to compromise another.

An example of this is the three way trade between Adelaide, Richmond and St. Kilda in 2011.

Richmond receive Ivan Maric, a depth player at Adelaide who automatically assumed Number 1 ruck duties.
Adelaide receive Tom Lynch, a promising young forward who could slot in and be a best 22 player for them.
St. Kilda receive Pick 37, used to draft Jack Newnes, who is now one of their best young players in the side.

All 3 clubs would say that is a fair trade. St. Kilda probably a little less so, losing Tom Lynch, but they would be more than happy with Newnes, I am sure.
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So - Adelaide has done itself no favours, and then you list them being reasonable traders??
 
Gunstall555 said:
Adelaide got an upgrade on the pick they used to get Gunston. Hawthorn also gave up later picks. Adelaide had some bad luck with the kids they picked up with those picks.
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Sorry. It was a pick or two upgrade. After Gunston had proven himself to be one of the most exciting juniors in the AFL and a complete draft steal.

A draft steal that was then stolen by Hawthorn. Instead of finding the jewels themselves, they poached them from Adelaide.

We took all risk out of it for you, and it was daylight robbery. So take your "trade fairness" elsewhere.
 
Lumumba our second pick for Melbourne's second pick.?
 

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Kristof said:
Sorry. It was a pick or two upgrade. After Gunston had proven himself to be one of the most exciting juniors in the AFL and a complete draft steal.

A draft steal that was then stolen by Hawthorn. Instead of finding the jewels themselves, they poached them from Adelaide.

We took all risk out of it for you, and it was daylight robbery. So take your "trade fairness" elsewhere.
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It was 5 spots and we would have offered a better pick quite happily if we had one but unfortunately the Gold Coast concessions meant instead of having a pick in the mid teens, it ended up being pick 24. He had only played 12 games for 19 goals (including 5 in a game against Richmond where both teams didn't really turn up to play), so early signs looked good but he was hardly established at that time and was still a bit of an unknown in terms of his potential.

Ask teams such as St Kilda, North, WB etc smaller teams in the comp that every other big club tries to screw over, I'm sure they will all say they would rather work with Hawthorn compared to other big clubs.
 
Gunstall555 said:
It was 5 spots and we would have offered a better pick quite happily if we had one but unfortunately the Gold Coast concessions meant instead of having a pick in the mid teens, it ended up being pick 24. He had only played 12 games for 19 goals (including 5 in a game against Richmond where both teams didn't really turn up to play), so early signs looked good but he was hardly established at that time and was still a bit of an unknown in terms of his potential.

Ask teams such as St Kilda, North, WB etc smaller teams in the comp that every other big club tries to screw over, I'm sure they will all say they would rather work with Hawthorn compared to other big clubs.
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We got a fair return on Lake IMO.
 
Dom PC said:
Mitchell is worth around pick 8-12 from my point of view. You are giving up Beams for Mitchell and a pick upgrade into the top 4 of the draft. It's not a horrible trade for you IMO. Fair enough if you want a bit extra though (maybe a 2nd rd pick up grade as well?).
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No, that would be the absolute definition of a shocking trade for us.
 

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Gunstall555 said:
They are known to be very difficult to trade with. Ask St Kilda with Luke Ball, or even GWS with Taylor Adams.
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What the heck? GWS got a gun older player and that was the absolute definition of a win-win. I thought Adams was rubbish according to BF anyway?
 
Dom PC said:
A top 10 pick rated, ready to go midfielder and a pick upgrade into the top 4 of the draft. Hardly shocking.
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Nah, pretty terrible. Beams is worth well more than pick 4, and 9 is probably overpaying slightly for orate best evens for Mitchell and is going to be tied up with Darcy Moore anyway.
 
Gunstall555 said:
It was 5 spots and we would have offered a better pick quite happily if we had one but unfortunately the Gold Coast concessions meant instead of having a pick in the mid teens, it ended up being pick 24. He had only played 12 games for 19 goals (including 5 in a game against Richmond where both teams didn't really turn up to play), so early signs looked good but he was hardly established at that time and was still a bit of an unknown in terms of his potential.

Ask teams such as St Kilda, North, WB etc smaller teams in the comp that every other big club tries to screw over, I'm sure they will all say they would rather work with Hawthorn compared to other big clubs.
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I'm not going to argue about it. But you went to Gunston during the season, and got him to walk out on the club on the night of the B&F, when he was about to win the best first year player award. He had a contract in front of him that he was "about to sign", except he had been dishonest with the club and had been encouraged to do so.

You got him to say Hawthorn was the only club he would go to, when others were offering a better deal. And you pleaded poverty and lack of picks when you refused to give a deal that was equivalent to his value.

All in all, a dog act.
 
Mateyman said:
What the heck? GWS got a gun older player and that was the absolute definition of a win-win. I thought Adams was rubbish according to BF anyway?
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You're forgetting people on here twist the truth to make Collingwood look like the bad guy.
 
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