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Trade hypotheticals

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Silent Alarm said:
Zac Clarke for Schoenmakers/Litherland and Ben Stratton? Hawks chock-full of rucks I know...
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Hawthorn may need another backup ruckman to avoid another 2009 fiasco (all our rucks got injured, I think we actually had to ruck Franklin & Roughhead in a game versus North) especially with Luke Lowden seeking opportunities elsewhere. Zac Clarke wouldn't be a bad backup ruckman.

The things is, if Clarke were to leave Fremantle, he wouldnt get a game unless his performances are sublime. The backup ruckman is usually a project player who is young or needs time to mature. Clarke is 24 and no doubt wants to get games, but he'd be behind Hale, McEvoy and Ceglar. By the time Hale retires (giving him two years) Clarke will be 26, McEvoy 28 and Ceglar 24. He'd be the backup ruckman at 26 year olds, with no guarantees of getting a senior game. At Fremantle, he'd be assured games due to Sandiland's getting quite hefty in the age department.

The demands are too much. Zac Clarke for Shoenmakers/Litherland+Stratton? I laugh. Stratton is a solid defender who always plays his role immaculately, and Litherland has resigned for two years indicating he's going nowhere. I could potentially see Zac Clarke+Pick 12 (to Hawthorn) --> Shoenmakers +Stratton (To Fremantle) but I doubt Fremantle supporters would enjoy that trade.

Hawthorn wouldnt let clubs touch Stratton without something sweet on offer because he is our most consistent defender. Doesn't usually get injured, can play on talls or smalls, is a great intercept mark (second only to Lake in 2013) and in his 92 games I cannot recall a bag of goals being kicked on him. Pick 12 may be a bit extravagant, but anything less than pick 20 and Hawthorn simply walks away. In terms of shares you want to buy cheap and sell high-and that's exactly what Hawthorn can do with Stratton.

Even then, the only reason they would consider this trade is because Litherland can take Stratton's role. Clarke for Shoenmakers sounds about right.

I don't think Clarke would enjoy that trade and I don't think Fremantle supporters would enjoy two skinny forwards who get beaten 1 on 1 in the forward line. Dawson is enough-you don't want a player who has the same problems (albeit better in other areas). I cringe at the thought of those two against Sydney's forward line.

Oddhawk said:
How about a simple one
12 for Birchall
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I suppose 12 for Birchall sounds fair on paper, but Birchall is extremely important with his run off the half Backline. Personally I would say no and keep your hands off.
 
george2 said:
As good as Stratton has been a player I think if you take him out of that Hawthorn backline and there structure and put him in another team I think he would struggle. He is a very important player for the Hawks though
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He's probably worth more to us than any other team in the league, as he is the Gibson replacement in 1-2 years.
Frawley, Stratton and Spangher will play the roles currently taken up by Lake, Gibson and Stratton.
 

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VandoHawk said:
New to this site, so hopefully this post isn't a complete waste of my breath.

Adelaide are rumored to be interested in Shoenmakers (no doubt to replenish defensive depth) are in need of another ruckman to support Sam Jacobs. Lowden has requested a trade due to lack of opportunity, and while it was orginally reported he was keen on Port Adelaide the arrival of (most likely) Ryder and Gorringe means that Lowden will find himself in the same situation at Hawthorn (4th best ruckman) which is what he wants to avoid.

Lowden+ Shoenmakers to Adelaide---> Pick 9 to Hawthorn

Lowden on his own is probably worth a Second Round Pick as his debut was extremely impressive against considerable ruck opposition in (if my memory doesn't fail me) Cox and Naitanui. His VFL form has also been stellar, and he is probably the most goal savvy ruckman on Hawthorn's list bar Hale. I'd love to keep Lowden, but he has been starved of opportunities and whether to Adelaide or not I wish him the best of luck at another club. Don't berate his value-a young ruckman who has been groomed for years and is an extremely good size (204cm and 102kg) is hard to come by.

Shoenmakers, while is somewhat of a whipping boy, has proved himself as a capable defender and swingman and will probably find stifled opportunities at Hawthorn if Frawley joins the nest. This is because Kaiden Brand is being groomed to probably be the next CHF, and his size is bigger than Shoenmakers. As long as he (Shoenmakers) isn't isolated 1 on 1 he is an extremely potent attacking defender with good athleticism and a magnificent kick.

Both of these players are young (both 23) and would fill Adelaide's needs both immediately and in the long term. Perhaps a sweetener deal could be done where Adelaide trades their 3rd round pick for Hawthorn's second, similar to what St. Kilda and Hawthorn did in the McEvoy trade.
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Personally, I wouldn't be interested in trading pick 9 for those two. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to going for both, but I'd rather do separate deals.

For starters, Pick 9 (although might be bumped down to 10) is our highest pick since 2004. Considering we were barred from having a single decent pick for the last two years, I doubt we'll be letting it go unless we get something extraordinary in return.

I admittedly don't know much about Lowden. It does strike me as odd that he's only played one game in six years of development. I understand you have more depth than you know what to do with at Hawthorn, but how far behind Ceglar is he? We got Jacobs in 2010 for picks 33 and 67, who was probably in a similar position to Lowden, but had shown a little more at AFL level. So I doubt we'd part with our second rounder of 29 at the moment. Maybe if you threw in your third and we threw in our fourth or some steak knives like that. We could possibly make a deal with Jarryd Lyons, who is 22, Victorian and has been tearing up the SANFL for two years now while rarely being picked. However, with Sando gone, I think we might hold onto him and hope our new coach gives him more of a go. There's also the rumour that we're after Giles, so we may not be interested in Lowden at all.

Schoenmakers is an interesting one, as he's South Australian and a former high draft pick. But we shouldn't go after him purely because he's South Australian. We definitely need another key defender with Otten gone for next year and Hartigan being raw. However, if he's no good one on one, I don't think we should go after him. The Crows don't know how to effectively use a loose man, and our team generally doesn't employ much defensive pressure once we lose the ball. I still remember Schonemakers almost putting us into a Grand Final in 2012 with his performance on Tippett. I wouldn't necessarily mind him. We do have a good record with developing defenders, but I'm wary, especially since he's fallen down your pecking order as well. Can't really put a value him. Also if we're into him as a forward as bombersno1 seems to think, we really don't need him.
 
kenneje said:
West Coast
OUT 29.
IN Hallahan.

Hawthorn
OUT Hallahan, Schoenmakers, Lowden.
IN Pick 9.

Adelaide
OUT Pick 9.
IN Pick 29, Schoenmakers, Lowden.

Would Adelaide fans break shit?
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Actually sounds pretty good.

West Coast get the inside midfielder who gets his hand's dirty that they've been crying for, Adelaide get some long term fixes around the ground and Hawthorn get a high pick to get a player for the future and room to trade Pick 18 if they wish.

Also means Hawthorn won't need to delist any players with the Sewelly retirement

Mind you, if Adelaide already has Pick 29 it has some problems
 
kenneje said:
West Coast
OUT 29.
IN Hallahan.

Hawthorn
OUT Hallahan, Schoenmakers, Lowden.
IN Pick 9.

Adelaide
OUT Pick 9.
IN Pick 29, Schoenmakers, Lowden.

Would Adelaide fans break shit?
Click to expand...
Lowden is worth jack all. He adds no value to a trade. Shoey is a second rounder at best. There is no way that would get done
 
RippaRiley43 said:
Personally, I wouldn't be interested in trading pick 9 for those two. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to going for both, but I'd rather do separate deals.

For starters, Pick 9 (although might be bumped down to 10) is our highest pick since 2004. Considering we were barred from having a single decent pick for the last two years, I doubt we'll be letting it go unless we get something extraordinary in return.

I admittedly don't know much about Lowden. It does strike me as odd that he's only played one game in six years of development. I understand you have more depth than you know what to do with at Hawthorn, but how far behind Ceglar is he? We got Jacobs in 2010 for picks 33 and 67, who was probably in a similar position to Lowden, but had shown a little more at AFL level. So I doubt we'd part with our second rounder of 29 at the moment. Maybe if you threw in your third and we threw in our fourth or some steak knives like that. We could possibly make a deal with Jarryd Lyons, who is 22, Victorian and has been tearing up the SANFL for two years now while rarely being picked. However, with Sando gone, I think we might hold onto him and hope our new coach gives him more of a go. There's also the rumour that we're after Giles, so we may not be interested in Lowden at all.

Schoenmakers is an interesting one, as he's South Australian and a former high draft pick. But we shouldn't go after him purely because he's South Australian. We definitely need another key defender with Otten gone for next year and Hartigan being raw. However, if he's no good one on one, I don't think we should go after him. The Crows don't know how to effectively use a loose man, and our team generally doesn't employ much defensive pressure once we lose the ball. I still remember Schonemakers almost putting us into a Grand Final in 2012 with his performance on Tippett. I wouldn't necessarily mind him. We do have a good record with developing defenders, but I'm wary, especially since he's fallen down your pecking order as well. Can't really put a value him. Also if we're into him as a forward as bombersno1 seems to think, we really don't need him.
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He's not far behind Ceglar at all. Some Hawthorn fans (myself included) thought he should have had a Senior spot-which is intriguing because he (Ceglar) was in front of McEvoy at the selection table for a fair amount of time. He constantly wins hit outs at VFL level (I believe 56 was his best effort) and he's a known goalkicker-3 on his AFL debut with a nice crumbling goal and is generally good for about 2 a game while holding 1st ruck position. If you get Giles you probably don't need Lowden as he's trying to earn a spot in a team, but with his size I'd have thought Pick 29 would be more than enough. Seperate deals I could see, but Hawthorn want to secure their future with top-end talent. If Lyons is as good as you say (I don't know much about SANFL) then Hawthorn would definitely throw in their third round pick with Lowden to get Lyons+your fourth. The pick downgrade isn't that bad for Hawthorn while securing a potentially good replacement for our aging stars, and Adelaide gets to keep both their first and second round picks while getting a second ruckman with potential. That actually sounds extremely appealing, as Hawthorn need some good quality miss (not just depth).

If I may take the opportunity, do you think your club is willing to trade Dangerfield? Wanted to hear from an Adelaide supporter and not just these media flogs chiming in.

Shoenmakers is a swingman. He can play forward and play back-as long as he has support in the Backline he can win his matchups (In Round 18, Shoenmakers kept Tippet to 1 goal in a zone defense). He seems to go quiet while up forward, and with Adelaide's forward line I doubt you'd need him up there. He's come back from an ACL injury and was in our team, but fell down the pecking order for 2 reasons- the first is that we preferred to play Spangher down back because he was a bigger presence (though Shoenmakers has bulked up considerably) and the second is the return on Brian Lake. Should an injury occur he is the first to come back into our side-but with other defenders developing in the VFL and a possible pick on a defender this year I don't see him getting into our side too often. His isolated prescense is terrible-but he's still young and has plenty of upside. Secound round pick on its own should be enough if you are willing to part with it.
 
Last edited:
BlueMaster1 said:
What about this one

Melbourne received pick 3 as compo for James Frawley

Melbourne trade picks 2,3 for Dangerfiled

Adelaide trade pick 3 for Schomakers,Lowden and pick 19

As that fair
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Adelaide would hate it and Melbourne and Hawthorn would love it.
 
kenneje said:
West Coast
OUT 29.
IN Hallahan.

Hawthorn
OUT Hallahan, Schoenmakers, Lowden.
IN Pick 9.

Adelaide
OUT Pick 9.
IN Pick 29, Schoenmakers, Lowden.

Would Adelaide fans break shit?
Click to expand...
You can't bundle trash to get something good. Even if Lowden, Schoenmakers and Hallahan all have value (and they do) at around pick 40-50 combine the 3 of them doesn't get to pick 9. Adelaide are much better off finding either to top line key defender or midfielder they need with pick 9 and then finding ruck and depth elsewhere.
 

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VandoHawk said:
He's not far behind Ceglar at all. Some Hawthorn fans (myself included) thought he should have had a Senior spot-which is intriguing because he (Ceglar) was in front of McEvoy at the selection table for a fair amount of time. He constantly wins hit outs at VFL level (I believe 56 was his best effort) and he's a known goalkicker-3 on his AFL debut with a nice crumbling goal and is generally good for about 2 a game while holding 1st ruck position. If you get Giles you probably don't need Lowden as he's trying to earn a spot in a team, but with his size I'd have thought Pick 29 would be more than enough. Seperate deals I could see, but Hawthorn want to secure their future with top-end talent. If Lyons is as good as you say (I don't know much about SANFL) then Hawthorn would definitely throw in their third round pick with Lowden to get Lyons+your fourth. The pick downgrade isn't that bad for Hawthorn while securing a potentially good replacement for our aging stars, and Adelaide gets to keep both their first and second round picks while getting a second ruckman with potential. That actually sounds extremely appealing, as Hawthorn need some good quality miss (not just depth).

If I may take the opportunity, do you think your club is willing to trade Dangerfield? Wanted to hear from an Adelaide supporter and not just these media flogs chiming in.

Shoenmakers is a swingman. He can play forward and play back-as long as he has support in the Backline he can win his matchups (In Round 18, Shoenmakers kept Tippet to 1 goal in a zone defense). He seems to go quiet while up forward, and with Adelaide's forward line I doubt you'd need him up there. He's come back from an ACL injury and was in our team, but fell down the pecking order for 2 reasons- the first is that we preferred to play Spangher down back because he was a bigger presence (though Shoenmakers has bulked up considerably) and the second is the return on Brian Lake. Should an injury occur he is the first to come back into our side-but with other defenders developing in the VFL and a possible pick on a defender this year I don't see him getting into our side too often. His isolated prescense is terrible-but he's still young and has plenty of upside. Secound round pick on its own should be enough if you are willing to part with it.
Click to expand...
I would think Lowden for Lyons would be closer to a straight swap, maybe more in our favour (although I'm biased). Lyons has played some good games at AFL level, and regularly gets 30+ touches and a goal or two in the SANFL as a clearance machine. I hope we don't get rid of him for the sake of it though, as he could flourish under a new coach. The issue our board had was that some felt Sando played Lyons in the wrong position or as the sub over an aging Scott Thompson and a clearly injured Dangerfield when he did get an opportunity (and in such a horrible season for us), and was promptly dropped if he didn't dominate.

I doubt we're interested in trading Dangerfield. Our list manager David Noble has said that he's not up for trade, and I back us in to keep him. Obviously we don't want a repeat of the Tippett saga in terms of compensation. We can't afford to lose a bunch of top players as we have done over the last few years, and Dangerfield is the sort of player you build a flag around. He had a poor year this year but still came equal fourth in the Brownlow while playing injured. The media loves to beat up the idea of the Crows losing such a high profile player. Obviously I'm not in the know, but I'm pretty sure we won't trade him if we don't see any risk of him leaving.

As for Schoenmakers, we really shouldn't go after him if he can't defend one on one. We do have a good record with tall defenders (Rutten, Bock, Talia, Otten and Davis come to mind), but I don't think we can take a defender who is unreliable one on one unless we start applying more defensive pressure as a team. And since he might fall further down your pecking order if you get Frawley and other young defenders developing, I don't think we'll give up a second rounder.

We'll probably take our chances with Pick 9, as our record of drafting with this sort of pick is good (B. Smith at 14 in 2010, Talia at 12 in 2009, Danger and Davis at pick 10 in 2007 and 8 respectively). With all due respect, and I know draft picks are overrated, I don't think we'd trade the potential for a player of that quality, who could fill our needs anyway, for two fringe players who might look better because they're in a top team.
 
Periphery said:
Pick 19+20 (the first two second rounders) are worth more than 18 (the last first rounder). Hell, even the first and last second rounder would be worth more than the last first rounder.
Click to expand...

I meant to quote the post before me where he suggested Lowden & Shoenmakers for Pick 9, but in that case you're correct, but two blokes who'd probably go for a mid 20s to 30s pick doesn't equal pick 9.
 

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bumsonseats said:
Wash your mouth out with soap.....to even think about trading Birch is bordering on filth..

Are we trying to create a second Hawthorn franchise in Sydney.....
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Considering their only goal-kickers for about a half of football in the Grand Final was Franklin, McGlynn and Kennedy I think that there's already a second Hawthorn franchise in Sydney
 
Would rather see ceglar go before losing lowden, also ceglar might be worth more to another club. I think grimley is as good as gone aswell, probably to the demons.
 
This isn't really a hypothetical trade but probably doesn't warrant its own thread. With FA kicking off I've been thinking, will anyone pick up Gwilt? He seems to be up to AFL standard, even if it's just as depth, I'm just trying to think where he'd head off to.

And is Sewell a chance to move on for a little retirement package or does he have his post-football stuff lined up at the Hawks already?

(Admit these might be numpty questions, but the mind has been occupied by just the one trade recently!)
 
PTizzle said:
This isn't really a hypothetical trade but probably doesn't warrant its own thread. With FA kicking off I've been thinking, will anyone pick up Gwilt? He seems to be up to AFL standard, even if it's just as depth, I'm just trying to think where he'd head off to.

And is Sewell a chance to move on for a little retirement package or does he have his post-football stuff lined up at the Hawks already?

(Admit these might be numpty questions, but the mind has been occupied by just the one trade recently!)
Click to expand...

Gwilt has interest from two clubs I believe. He was best 22 at the saints we've just decided to go for more youth.
 
PTizzle said:
This isn't really a hypothetical trade but probably doesn't warrant its own thread. With FA kicking off I've been thinking, will anyone pick up Gwilt? He seems to be up to AFL standard, even if it's just as depth, I'm just trying to think where he'd head off to.

And is Sewell a chance to move on for a little retirement package or does he have his post-football stuff lined up at the Hawks already?

(Admit these might be numpty questions, but the mind has been occupied by just the one trade recently!)
Click to expand...

Brad Sewell personally believes himself fit and at the peak of his abilities. The club thinks otherwise-his replacement in Will Langford can tag, has started getting goal side, is starting to becoming a clearance machine and is 22. Sewelly goes in hard at every contest but was looking a bit slow through the year.

Next year Brad Sewell turns 31. Should there be an injury our next generation of young players would probably come in rather than Sewelly. I love the bloke but I think it's time for a little retirement package.
 
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