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Trade hypotheticals

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But why would they give up Shiel who most would back to be of a similar, if not better, calibre to Petracca?
They may not give up Shiel, although it has been widely reported over the past couple of years that Shiel wants/wanted out of GWS, so if they were to for arguments sake trade him, it may be because they believe he will walk at the end of next year and that they won't have as much say in what they get in return if that happens, so they'd rather get on the front foot and do it now.

I wrote this next bit on our board earlier today, so I'll just copy it here as well:

O'Rourke or Jaksch and 4 for pick 1 isn't going to get it done. They are simply not good enough and/or "sure bets" (especially with concerns over O'Rourke's body and durability) enough to warrant trading down from who we consider to be the best in the draft to pick 4, which is now looking like a slight "no-mans land", with Peter Wright's poor end to the season (unless he was badly hampered by injury- which he may have been, hence missing the GF) and that next group looking like they may be so even, with possibly none of them "demanding" to be taken top 4 or 5 and with many of them looking like "KPD"s", who you don't usually look to take with a top 4 pick.

GWS would not have done that sort of deal when they had pick one this past couple of years, IMO and as such I don't believe they'll expect us to this year, now that we have pick 1. They'll know what sort of price they'll have to pay and if they are as keen on Petracca as we keep on hearing then I expect they will pay that price, which they can afford (due to their outrageously strong list).

As for Shiel v Petracca, it looks like Petracca will be able to do most if not all the things that Shiel does in the midfield, and in a similar way and to a similar level, but that he will be much more of a potent weapon up forward than Shiel (or any/most of the rest of their midfield brigade) will be, due to his ridiculously strong contested marking (like a Jack Ziebell) and his history of dominating games up forward and kicking lots of goals. That I believe would be why they are so keen on Petracca, if what we've been hearing for months now and are now hearing in the media is correct. Especially if they believe Shiel is a strong chance to walk in 12 months time, which they might.

Petracca looks like Shiel, but with extra strings to his bow and more "weapons", especially matchwinning weapons. Doesn't mean that Shiel is a hack, because he's far from it, but there are reasons Petracca dominates games of footy, is likely to tear up the combine and is widely tipped to go no.1 in his draft (even though the team with pick 1 would ideally prefer a "KPF" and there are one or two tipped to go top 4).
 
GWS would not have done that sort of deal when they had pick one this past couple of years, IMO and as such I don't believe they'll expect us to this year, now that we have pick 1. They'll know what sort of price they'll have to pay and if they are as keen on Petracca as we keep on hearing then I expect they will pay that price, which they can afford.
The last few years have had a standout no.1 pick. This year's more even. Boyd had far more value than this year's no.1 selection. 4 and Jacksh would be fair.
 
In your opinion. Others may have a different opinion, including clubs like GWS and St Kilda (if we are planning on drafting Petracca at no.1 (as we keep on hearing we are) then we'd have to rate him as the clear no.1 choice, as it is well known that we would prefer a "KPF") and who will GWS draft if they keep pick 4, yet another "project tall" to play in the NEAFL?

Jaksch and 4 may be "fair" (arguable, as Jaksch looks like he could possibly be only "meh", from what we've seen so far and is no certainty to even make it), but you don't trade pick 1 for "fair". That's why no-one has traded pick 1 for 13 or so years. You have to offered a deal that is too good to refuse in order to be willing to trade pick 1, as GWS would well know, as they've very recently played this game.

We especially wouldn't do a deal like that when we could get Jaksch with pick 1 in the PSD. Ditto O'Rourke.
 
The last few years have had a standout no.1 pick. This year's more even. Boyd had far more value than this year's no.1 selection. 4 and Jacksh would be fair.
Who says it's more even. Petracca is the clear the number 1 and has been most of the year.
And also, the saints won't be trading out pick 1 for a fair trade. If you want pick 1 you have to pay overs, it's that simple.
 

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Who says it's more even. Petracca is the clear the number 1 and has been most of the year.
And also, the saints won't be trading out pick 1 for a fair trade. If you want pick 1 you have to pay overs, it's that simple.

Fair call - sounds very simillar to the GWS last year who said for ages that they would trade pick 1 but never happened.
 
Yep exactly, it would take something big to get it done. It's not meant to be fair, you pay overs to get the best 18 year old in the country.
And all the publicity/PR and excitement/fanfare that comes with it.

You also have to factor in how much backlash you'd get if the deal you did ended up being a bust. You'd never hear the end of it. Freo still gets bagged for trading pick one 13 years ago and that is in spite of the fact that in theory the deal they did was a pretty bloody decent and "fair" one, that just didn't happen to work out for them.

Had Jaksch's draft a couple of years ago been a completely uncompromised one (ie. with O'Meara and Brad Crouch in it and Viney taken top 10 and not F/S) and Dayle Garlett hadn't been off the rails he would have been a lot more likely to go at a pick around the 16/17 mark than 12 and he hasn't done anything since as far as I'm aware to enhance that ranking, so I'd think with him being out of contract and wanting back home our 2nd rounder would be a "fair" price for him and about as much as I'd be willing to pay for him.
 
In your opinion. Others may have a different opinion, including clubs like GWS and St Kilda (if we are planning on drafting Petracca at no.1 (as we keep on hearing we are) then we'd have to rate him as the clear no.1 choice, as it is well known that we would prefer a "KPF") and who will GWS draft if they keep pick 4, yet another "project tall" to play in the NEAFL?

Jaksch and 4 may be "fair" (arguable, as Jaksch looks like he could possibly be only "meh", from what we've seen so far and is no certainty to even make it), but you don't trade pick 1 for "fair". That's why no-one has traded pick 1 for 13 or so years. You have to offered a deal that is too good to refuse in order to be willing to trade pick 1, as GWS would well know, as they've very recently played this game.

We especially wouldn't do a deal like that when we could get Jaksch with pick 1 in the PSD. Ditto O'Rourke.

Personally i'd prefer the Saints to hold Pick 1 and take Petracca. It would slow both their development and that of GWS. Not saying Petracca isnt quality but i think for list balance and development the Saints need to add KPP this year.

For mine Jaksch + Wright/McCartin/Lever/Durdin is of much greater value than Petracca to the Saints list.
 
The last few years have had a standout no.1 pick. This year's more even. Boyd had far more value than this year's no.1 selection. 4 and Jacksh would be fair.

I'm so sick of people saying that this year has no standout when Petracca is clearly the #1 pick and the last two years had the top 2 talents already removed from them via the mini-draft. Boyd was not the true #1 pick, he was #3.
 
I'm so sick of people saying that this year has no standout when Petracca is clearly the #1 pick and the last two years had the top 2 talents already removed from them via the mini-draft. Boyd was not the true #1 pick, he was #3.
This year has no standout.
 

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Then why is Petracca clearly the #1 pick.
Says who? Wright and MCartin have all been touted as potential #1's along with Petracca through the year. Recruiters who know lot more than you or I have said it's an even draft especially at the top.
 
Says who? Wright and MCartin have all been touted as potential #1's along with Petracca through the year. Recruiters who know lot more than you or I have said it's an even draft especially at the top.

They may have been in contention for the #1 pick at some point in the year, but they don't appear to be any more. Petracca seems to be almost a lock for the #1 pick. I don't see how that doesn't make him a standout?
 
Says who? Wright and MCartin have all been touted as potential #1's along with Petracca through the year. Recruiters who know lot more than you or I have said it's an even draft especially at the top.
They've said its very even draft as in anyone from 5-20 could go anywhere. Even after the first round the draft apparently runs pretty deep. That doesn't mean there isn't a clear number 1 because there is.
if St.Kilda keep pick 1 we'll take Petracca.
if Melbourne get it they'll take Petracca.
if GWS get it they'll take Petracca.
so on & so on...

its well and truly clear cut.
 
They've said its very even draft as in anyone from 5-20 could go anywhere. Even after the first round the draft apparently runs pretty deep. That doesn't mean there isn't a clear number 1 because there is.
if St.Kilda keep pick 1 we'll take Petracca.
if Melbourne get it they'll take Petracca.
if GWS get it they'll take Petracca.
so on & so on...

its well and truly clear cut.

Is it really?????

Still believe taking Petracca would be the worst case scenario for the Saints.

Given its a pretty good worst case, but without doubt both GWS and Saints know a Jaksch pick 4 for pick 1 trade is mutually beneficial.
 

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Is it really?????

Still believe taking Petracca would be the worst case scenario for the Saints.

So taking the best player in the draft is bad? Lets not forget the KPP forwards as good as they are don't have Boyd, Patton like numbers.
 
So taking the best player in the draft is bad? Lets not forget the KPP forwards as good as they are don't have Boyd, Patton like numbers.

Didn't say bad.

But given their list i believe its sub optimal to Jaksch + Wright/McCartin/Lever/Durdin at this point in time.

My logic has always been talls first as they take longer to develop. Works to Pelicans previous pattern as well.
 
Didn't say bad.

But given their list i believe its sub optimal to Jaksch + Wright/McCartin/Lever/Durdin at this point in time.

My logic has always been talls first as they take longer to develop. Works to Pelicans previous pattern as well.

They should take the best players. Yes if two players are similar the tall makes sense but I'm far from convinced. Petrracca is that far ahead of the rest.

Saints will have a top 3 pick next year, could easily get a McKensie type this season too with their 2nd
 
Who says it's more even. Petracca is the clear the number 1 and has been most of the year.
And also, the saints won't be trading out pick 1 for a fair trade. If you want pick 1 you have to pay overs, it's that simple.

I think Petracca will work out for you just as well as McCartin as he is just an elite talent and elite talents have a habit of going on to great things regardless of what is around them.

I truly believe Pelchen is just teasing and has no real intentions of letting pick 1 go. Good luck with Petracca, he has parts to his game that are very much like Chris Judd, hopefully he works out just as well.
 
They should take the best players. Yes if two players are similar the tall makes sense but I'm far from convinced. Petrracca is that far ahead of the rest.

Saints will have a top 3 pick next year, could easily get a McKensie type this season too with their 2nd

Take out Roo and look at the spine. It not wonderful.

Not a knock on the Saints as i fully understand its full rebuild down there.

So far so good
3 potential young rucks in Longer, Hickey, Pierce ....... talls first :)
Quality mids with Billings, Acres, Dunstan and Templeton

some spine work is really needed next imo.

Add Jaksch, Wright/McCartin/Lever/Durdin, and yes maybe McKensie 2nd round

All of a sudden their build is looking very very impressive in 3 years.
 
Take out Roo and look at the spine. It not wonderful.

Not a knock on the Saints as i fully understand its full rebuild down there.

So far so good
3 potential young rucks in Longer, Hickey, Pierce ....... talls first :)
Quality mids with Billings, Acres, Dunstan and Templeton

some spine work is really needed next imo.

Add Jaksch, Wright/McCartin/Lever/Durdin, and yes maybe McKensie 2nd round

All of a sudden their build is looking very very impressive in 3 years.

Some spine work is needed yes, but they have to be worth that pick. THE KPP's are nowhere near as good as Petracca. If you have pick 1, 18 clubs would pick Petracca. Whenever you overpay or 'reach' for players you run a very big risk. Saints have next year and the year after to get talls. It will be a longish rebuild. They will have a top 3 pick next year, maybe a priority pick as well. You take Petracca and work from there.
 

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