Tradebait

[theGav56]

I would rather be playin Murphy than Tarrant because he is an accurate kick.

This weekend nailed the debate for me.

Tarrant
Tarrant had a solid but unspectacular contribution in our forward line. His most significant contribution was keepng the defenders honest as part of a multi-pronged offense incorporating three genuine marking, goal-kicking talls, and a dangerous small forward. Tarrant's inaccurate shooting for goal was not an issue today because he was able to play the role he is best suited to, leading up the ground, and not having to try and make up for the role Murphy has failed to fill, shooting for goals.

Murphy
Didn't see the game but it seems he failed to kick a goal, and won't force his way into the team next week.

MacPharlin
Showed with dazzling clarity that Tarrant has not "taken" Murphy's spot, but illustrated exactly what our forward line can be if we have the firepower to stretch a defense that lacks at least three quality tall backmen. One of our big three should be able to stand up and kick a bag. He also exposed your comments earlier about Murphy not getting possesions because the midfielders don't kick it to him as wrong (do the Bulldogs midfielders also not kick it to him either?).

 

[Lach72]

You do get the feeling that the decision has been made and he is on his way out...

 

[theGav56]

I reckon Peake on the other wing will do just fine . We should trade Murphy for a draft pick instead of Ray.

I think Ray is a better player than peake. Peake may be faster, but he runs in circles and lacks vision. Regardless, we suffered without an adequate replacement for speedy wingmen this year when Peake was out, and we would improve our list with him in at the expense of Murphy.

 

[dominguez]

You do get the feeling that the decision has been made and he is on his way out...

If it has then he should still be in the 22. I'm sick of us buying high and selling low.

 

[Lach72]

If it has then he should still be in the 22. I'm sick of us buying high and selling low.

The way he's been playing he'd probably drop himself down to 4th rounder

 

[theGav56]

The way he's been playing he'd probably drop himself down to 4th rounder

Then leave him on the list, and see what happens next year. He is the one who has to make something of his career, the club can only support him and give him opportunity, which they have done. With a new coach he will be re-challenged, and what he needs to do laid on the line. If he does that terrific, and if he fails he'll be moved on.

 

[dominguez]

This weekend nailed the debate for me.

Tarrant
Tarrant had a solid but unspectacular contribution in our forward line. His most significant contribution was keepng the defenders honest as part of a multi-pronged offense incorporating three genuine marking, goal-kicking talls, and a dangerous small forward. Tarrant's inaccurate shooting for goal was not an issue today because he was able to play the role he is best suited to, leading up the ground, and not having to try and make up for the role Murphy has failed to fill, shooting for goals.

Murphy
Didn't see the game but it seems he failed to kick a goal, and won't force his way into the team next week.

MacPharlin
Showed with dazzling clarity that Tarrant has not "taken" Murphy's spot, but illustrated exactly what our forward line can be if we have the firepower to stretch a defense that lacks at least three quality tall backmen. One of our big three should be able to stand up and kick a bag. He also exposed your comments earlier about Murphy not getting possesions because the midfielders don't kick it to him as wrong (do the Bulldogs midfielders also not kick it to him either?).

Agree with most of that, but it was a nice sunny day yesterday which allowed three talls. It's unlikely that Murphy would have played 20 games even if his form was good due to matchups and conditions, and he would have known that and his condfidence has suffered. I'm sure if my boss brought in someone on twice as much money and with much more experience to do my job I'b be shitty too.

Next year we'll probably have two 7 footers in the line up, so we won't see much of McPharlin forward. But we know that McPharlin can go forward if required, Warnock can take a mark, and Drum and Campbell are waiting in the wings. IMO we really have to trade Murphy, hopefully the club sees it the same way. Fortunately he is contracted.

I'm sure Mark Riley was much more concerned with McPharlin than Tarrant yesterday. Scoreboard pressure is much more important than possessions on the wing, but unfortunately Murphy has done neither this year.

I've only watched the first half of the South's v West Perth game from yesterday, but Campbell has been very good. They really look for him going forward and he has a stronger physical presence than Murphy and also provides more defensive pressure. Doesn't have the class that Murphy displayed last year, but certainly has something to offer.

 

[theGav56]

I'm sure Mark Riley was much more concerned with McPharlin than Tarrant yesterday. Scoreboard pressure is much more important than possessions on the wing, but unfortunately Murphy has done neither this year.

I'm sure you are right, and if Tarrant wasn't in the team he would have been able to do more to stop MacPharlin. If Murphy was in the team, MacPharlin would have had to play Tarrant's role because Murphy can't.

I guess in the end I think that Tarrant can and should be being played almost as a winger-halfforward. I think most grounds can be played with three talls when they are as mobile as ours yesterday. Sydney an obvious exception. But regardless, Subiaco gives us half our games, and the MCG is a ground that three talls would work beautifully on.

 

[dominguez]

The way he's been playing he'd probably drop himself down to 4th rounder

His value would have certainly dropped in 12 months, but Croad had a shocker in 2003 and we still got a first round pick. Murphy has shown that he can play, and he's still young.

With the benefit of hindsight we should have done what we did in 2002, when we traded heavily for Headland then traded pick 13 for Leigh Brown. We would have definately got a late first rounder last year in a stronger draft, and that player would now have 12 months development behind them.

The problem is that the teams that would be keen on Murphy are in the bottom half of the ladder. They won't give up their first rounder, and we don't want to trade for established players. Worst case scenario is we'll get pick 18 from richmond or pick 20 from Melbourne I reckon. That along with an early third round pick might be the best we can get.

 

[Lach72]

Dom, I don't think you can compare Croad to Murphy

 

[dominguez]

Dom, I don't think you can compare Croad to Murphy

Croad had certainly done more at the same at age at AFL level, but Muprhy kicked 70 goals for South's as an 18 year old. He's got plenty of talent, and in 3 years time he'll probably be seen as the one that got away. Unfortunately our recruitment has forced us into a corner.

 

[chook2734]

Croad had certainly done more at the same at age at AFL level, but Muprhy kicked 70 goals for South's as an 18 year old. He's got plenty of talent, and in 3 years time he'll probably be seen as the one that got away. Unfortunately our recruitment has forced us into a corner.

dom, I know you aren't happy about the Tarrant trade, but I really think you're giving Murph an easy out here by saying that we've got no choice but to trade him. There aren't too many AFL footballers who aren't challenged by something at some stage in their career - it's how they deal with it and come out the other side that makes them a better player. Murphy so far has failed miserably when faced with his first major challenge, especially given that there was no need for it to be a challenge. Not many make it to this level without a fair amount of ability. What separates them is their approach to the game - if Murphy can't or won't improve his attitude at Freo, he's got no one to blame but himself.

 

[theGav56]

Unfortunately our recruitment has forced us into a corner.

That's a simplistic view. If we are in a corner it's not a very deep one, and certainly not one that we have to trade our way out of unless the deal is worth our while.

Ibbotson and Foster both seem to have the midfield pace and skill that we are currently lacking and while they won't be at their peak next season they look to be reasonable contributors.

Dunn, Browne and Schammer were recruited for a succession plan for an assortment of mids including Bell, Hasleby, Cook and MacManus. Nothing wrong with the recruitment decisions even if they don't work out as planned. If Bell retires early that will hurt us, but once again that is not a recruitment decision. Hasleby is an ongoing concern.

Solomon has made a more than useful contribution at the midfield stoppages, and Gilmore has taken a massive step in his career, and while that has been through playing in the ruck, he should be able to maintain that when he is not rucking.

One of Palmer or Masten seem certain to be on the list next year, and look capable of contributing immediately, and would add both class and grunt.

Both Collard and O'brien were good selections with an eye on addressing our weak areas. O'brien can potentially relieve Hayden or Black from the backline to play more of a midfield role, and Collard is supposed to have the potential to go midfield as required too.

We also have a host of talls who have the capacity to play a midfield role, while not necessarily fulltime midfielders; Drum, Mundy, Johnson.

I'm not making the case for us having a top shelf midfield, but I think there is significant depth there, and believe that things could turn around quite quickly with some tweeking, and the addition of some class.

 

[dominguez]

dom, I know you aren't happy about the Tarrant trade, but I really think you're giving Murph an easy out here by saying that we've got no choice but to trade him. There aren't too many AFL footballers who aren't challenged by something at some stage in their career - it's how they deal with it and come out the other side that makes them a better player. Murphy so far has failed miserably when faced with his first major challenge, especially given that there was no need for it to be a challenge. Not many make it to this level without a fair amount of ability. What separates them is their approach to the game - if Murphy can't or won't improve his attitude at Freo, he's got no one to blame but himself.

You're right, Murphy has been very disappointing this year. If he is traded it will be his own fault, but long term it will probably be the Fremantle Footy Club who are the loser.

Our forward line wasn't a problem last year. It hasn't been a problem this year, and we'll probably finish the season in the bottom five. I just think we had to back our players in. You only need 2 or 3 key forwards. With Johnson, Mundy and McPharlin able to be swung forward, two 7 foot ruckmen, Drum, Campbell and Murphy as developing key forwards and Mourish drafted last year we had the forward line cattle to support Pavlich for many years to come.

While you only need 2 or 3 forwards you can have 8 to 10 midfielders. Peake, Crowley and Schammer have shown a bit but need to step up next year. Bell will probably retire, if he doesn't he certainly won't play in 2009. Hasleby is injury prone. Matt Carr and McManus are near the end. That leaves Josh Carr, at 27, to carry the midfield.

We had two players who weren't in our 22 with trade value last year. We could have loaded up in the draft, but instead took the short sighted approach to win a premiership this year or next. It certainly won't happen this year, and will be extremely difficult next year if Bell pulls the pin. I'm sure Schwab has some player from a rival club lined up to be our saviour in 2008 though.

 

[dominguez]

That's a simplistic view. If we are in a corner it's not a very deep one, and certainly not one that we have to trade our way out of unless the deal is worth our while.

Ibbotson and Foster both seem to have the midfield pace and skill that we are currently lacking and while they won't be at their peak next season they look to be reasonable contributors.

Dunn, Browne and Schammer were recruited for a succession plan for an assortment of mids including Bell, Hasleby, Cook and MacManus. Nothing wrong with the recruitment decisions even if they don't work out as planned. If Bell retires early that will hurt us, but once again that is not a recruitment decision. Hasleby is an ongoing concern.

Solomon has made a more than useful contribution at the midfield stoppages, and Gilmore has taken a massive step in his career, and while that has been through playing in the ruck, he should be able to maintain that when he is not rucking.

One of Palmer or Masten seem certain to be on the list next year, and look capable of contributing immediately, and would add both class and grunt.

Both Collard and O'brien were good selections with an eye on addressing our weak areas. O'brien can potentially relieve Hayden or Black from the backline to play more of a midfield role, and Collard is supposed to have the potential to go midfield as required too.

We also have a host of talls who have the capacity to play a midfield role, while not necessarily fulltime midfielders; Drum, Mundy, Johnson.

I'm not making the case for us having a top shelf midfield, but I think there is significant depth there, and believe that things could turn around quite quickly with some tweeking, and the addition of some class.

When I wrote that we have been forced into a corner I meant in regards to Murphy, I wasn't having a crack at our drafting. We really have to trade him regardless of the offer, because we have so many players jostling for one spot. He is also out of contract next season.

Ibbo and Foster have shown a bit, but there have been half a dozen each year over the journey to do the same. Polak, Murphy and Medhurst looked like future All Australian's in their first year on our list.

Palmer needs to have a shocking draft camp to fall to us. If we beat Port we probably won't get Masten either. I reckon both are ready for 15 games next year if we can snare one of them though.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

While you only need 2 or 3 forwards you can have 8 to 10 midfielders. Peake, Crowley and Schammer have shown a bit but need to step up next year. Bell will probably retire, if he doesn't he certainly won't play in 2009. Hasleby is injury prone. Matt Carr and McManus are near the end. That leaves Josh Carr, at 27, to carry the midfield.

This is the best argument for retaining macManus I've seen so far.

We had two players who weren't in our 22 with trade value last year. We could have loaded up in the draft, but instead took the short sighted approach to win a premiership this year or next. It certainly won't happen this year, and will be extremely difficult next year if Bell pulls the pin. I'm sure Schwab has some player from a rival club lined up to be our saviour in 2008 though.

I'd be surprised if there is much agreement for this. Solomon brought way more to our team than Bryce Gibbs would have. In fact go through the top 20from 2006 and maybe only Joel Selwood has had a better year, and he has been 5th or 6th midfielder in a top-flight midfield.

Draft picks are the best youngsters going around and you take you chances. Solomon is a now guaranteed commodity. And he has another 5 years left in him.

Getting Tarrant to suppport Pavlich was a no brainer. We have been breaking down at half forward for years. Tarrant has a phenomenal work rate and is fantastic in the air. He is a vital piece in the jigsaw. He is performaing almost as well as he did in most years at Collingwood. He has usually only ever been a 30-40 goal a year forward.

 

[dominguez]

I'd be surprised if there is much agreement for this. Solomon brought way more to our team than Bryce Gibbs would have. In fact go through the top 20from 2006 and maybe only Joel Selwood has had a better year, and he has been 5th or 6th midfielder in a top-flight midfield.

Draft picks are the best youngsters going around and you take you chances. Solomon is a now guaranteed commodity. And he has another 5 years left in him.

Getting Tarrant to suppport Pavlich was a no brainer. We have been breaking down at half forward for years. Tarrant has a phenomenal work rate and is fantastic in the air. He is a vital piece in the jigsaw. He is performaing almost as well as he did in most years at Collingwood. He has usually only ever been a 30-40 goal a year forward.

Solomon has been great, but he plays forward, back and in the middle. He also cost us bugger all. I don't know about another five years though.

Obviously Tarrant and Solomon were going to provide more in 2007 than any draft picks. But it's not like 2007 is the be all and end all. It's not like the competition is wrapping up or we were facing relegation. I think because we have been shit for so long people got overly excited last year and hoped to pinch a flag. The goal should be too consistently finish top four over a 5 or 6 year period, instead we chase that one missing link every trade week, and it hasn't worked.

How do you squeeze Tarrant, Pavlich, Farmer, Solomon, Headland, Warnock, Murphy, Campbell, Drum, Mourish and Collard into our forward line in a year or two? We had the forward line covered, infact it was already our greatest strength into the future before we recruited Tarrant. We have traded out Croad, McPhee, Polak, Simmonds and Brown in recent years because everyone agreed that we needed to bolster our midfield. Then we go and trade for a forward who doesn't like kicking for goal, WTF?

Now we have to trade Murphy, who will probably be better than Tarrant in 18 months, to rebuild our midfield. Then if Grover/McPharlin gets injured everyone will be saying we need a key defender. Then if Warnock gets injured people will say we need to trade for another ruckman. Draft the kids and back them in, trading away top ten picks doesn't work unless you're getting a guy like Bell who will lead your club for 7 or 8 years.

 

[Rob]

MacPharlin
Showed with dazzling clarity that Tarrant has not "taken" Murphy's spot, but illustrated exactly what our forward line can be if we have the firepower to stretch a defense that lacks at least three quality tall backmen. One of our big three should be able to stand up and kick a bag. He also exposed your comments earlier about Murphy not getting possesions because the midfielders don't kick it to him as wrong (do the Bulldogs midfielders also not kick it to him either?).

Good call.

 

[chook2734]

Getting Tarrant to suppport Pavlich was a no brainer. We have been breaking down at half forward for years. Tarrant has a phenomenal work rate and is fantastic in the air. He is a vital piece in the jigsaw. He is performaing almost as well as he did in most years at Collingwood. He has usually only ever been a 30-40 goal a year forward.

Ralph, the interesting thing with this too is that other than last season, when he was clearly restricted by injury, he was Colllingwood's highest goalkicker with his 30-40. This year, he has still contributed the same number of goals, and Pav has been able to keep up his 60-70. Next year will be interesting with Wiz (hopefully) back in and possibly a third tall.

Solly's contribution all season has been outstanding and he has lifted another level since Harvs took over too.

 

[dominguez]

This is the best argument for retaining macManus I've seen so far.

I'm happy for McManus to be retained if Bell retires, aslong as he is picked on merit and not reputation. Based on yesterday Foster with another preseason under his belt offers more than Macca. Drum, Dunn and Ibbo also deserve greater opportunities next year assuming their WAFL form warrants selection.

 

[theGav56]

How do you squeeze Tarrant, Pavlich, Farmer, Solomon, Headland, Warnock, Murphy, Campbell, Drum, Mourish and Collard into our forward line in a year or two?

Probably the easiest way is to play Solomon and Headland in the midfield. We've looked much better since Solomon has played more midfield/back, and Headland has mainly been in the forward line because of Farmer's poor year. But he can be equally damaging on the wing.The others are no more than fringe players or spare parts forwards at the moment.

We have traded out Croad, McPhee, Polak, Simmonds and Brown in recent years because everyone agreed that we needed to bolster our midfield. Then we go and trade for a forward who doesn't like kicking for goal, WTF?

Those players were traded because they were struggling. The Croad and Simmonds trades netted us Schammer and Black, and I'd struggle to see too much downside in that. Polak was traded because he would walk into Richmond via the PSD. You can bang on about Tarrant's shooting for goal, but if you think that is his sole value for the forward line you're wearing blinkers. Not withstanding he is kicking his career average goals per game, and is easily our second best tall option. You may think that trading Murphy will burn us, but the same was said about Brown; The reality is that getting rid of Brown when we did was inspired.

Polak on our list would have made up numbers in the WAFL again, or he would have been our spre parts ruckman instead of Gilmore, and impossible though the thought may have seemed a year ago, I'd prefer Gilmore.

 

[wehavethepassion]

Strongly rumoured that Tatter to WB for Farran Ray.

 

[The_Bulldogs_Bite]

Strongly rumoured that Tatter to WB for Farran Ray.

Who's Tatter?

 

[Cameron_K]

Ryan Murphy

 

[sabre_ac]

Strongly rumoured that Tatter to WB for Farran Ray.

You mean rumoured on bigfooty?