Training Report 6-1-2005

[WaynesWorld19]

Wayne's-World, I agree that there will be players that will surprise us this year not only with their play but with the positions they play. I woudln't be surprised if Craig does use Massie or Doughty as taggers BUT I can't see them being overly successful in those roles.

Personally I would give Van Berlo a crack at it but he does need to beef up a fair bit if he is to go head to head with the best midfielders in the comp.

The write ups on Von Berlo hilites his lack of defensive action preferring to be an attacking linkman, so Im not sure if he could curb his natural instincts?

Have a re-read of Wisby's write up and would welcolme your opinion

 

[Stiffy_18]

The write ups on Von Berlo hilites his lack of defensive action preferring to be an attacking linkman, so Im not sure if he could curb his natural instincts?

Have a re-read of Wisby's write up and would welcolme your opinion

Reading Wisbey's opinion is one thing but taking it as gospel is another. He never rated Dal Santo but he turned out to be a gun. While I love reading his profiles I don't take them as gospel. I think AFC would know best if NVB is suitable to tagging role. It was just a suggestion but I still think that Shirley is the number 1 tagger like it or not

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Reading Wisbey's opinion is one thing but taking it as gospel is another. He never rated Dal Santo but he turned out to be a gun. While I love reading his profiles I don't take them as gospel. I think AFC would know best if NVB is suitable to tagging role. It was just a suggestion but I still think that Shirley is the number 1 tagger like it or not

I don't disagree with your comments on Wisbey (if correct the biggest mistake we have made ) but in the absence of not having seen him play yet, just train, I have had to make my comment on some foundation

 

[johnnypanther]

it seems to me that most of us agree that Shirley is not in our best 22 (maybe not even 30 or 43 ) but that he will start in the 22 by default as a tagger

surely one of our youngsters can step into this role even in a learning capacity (just like the paps have done with cassissi,cornes, etc)

maybe Shirls can get himself on the long term injury list and Ryan Nye could step into the role

 

[macca23]

it seems to me that most of us agree that Shirley is not in our best 22 (maybe not even 30 or 43 ) but that he will start in the 22 by default as a tagger

surely one of our youngsters can step into this role even in a learning capacity (just like the paps have done with cassissi,cornes, etc)

maybe Shirls can get himself on the long term injury list and Ryan Nye could step into the role

Shirley is certainly not in our best 22 in terms of natural ability, but he does havea talent, and that is to stay close to an opponent and negate them. Two great jobs he's done in this respect have been on Judd and Camporeale, players of vastly more natural ability than him.

That will probably get him in the side if it's felt that we have to shut a player on the opposition's team down.

I like the idea of educating a youngster in the art of mid-field by tagging (a la Cornes, who is a pretty fair footballer in his own right), but who do we have with the necessary pace, concentration and skill to do that?

 

[Bockchoy67]

Shirley is certainly not in our best 22 in terms of natural ability, but he does havea talent, and that is to stay close to an opponent and negate them. Two great jobs he's done in this respect have been on Judd and Camporeale, players of vastly more natural ability than him.

That will probably get him in the side if it's felt that we have to shut a player on the opposition's team down.

I like the idea of educating a youngster in the art of mid-field by tagging (a la Cornes, who is a pretty fair footballer in his own right), but who do we have with the necessary pace, concentration and skill to do that?

Van Berlo.

But for a ready-made replacement, Torney, Massie or Mattner would be our best bets.

As previously stated Ryan Nye could well hold this position, especially if he is promoted onto the senior list by the end of the year at least.

 

[tztommo]

if mattner or shirley steps up this they will be in the first 22 i think mattner and shirley are of the same quality at the moment

 

[WaynesWorld19]

it seems to me that most of us agree that Shirley is not in our best 22 (maybe not even 30 or 43 ) but that he will start in the 22 by default as a tagger

surely one of our youngsters can step into this role even in a learning capacity (just like the paps have done with cassissi,cornes, etc)

maybe Shirls can get himself on the long term injury list and Ryan Nye could step into the role

When I read his bio I thought the same thing - Shirley has experience and AFL hardness as an advantage but your right a future option definately.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

if mattner or shirley steps up this they will be in the first 22 i think mattner and shirley are of the same quality at the moment

Mattner is definately not a tagger. The Count sounds like he has the pace but not the hardness to do the job. I suspect we will go with Shirls again this year and then from 2006 groom either Knights or Nye for the role. I reckon Knights could get the nod going forward.

 

[Mad Dog]

call me stupid, visionary, or simplistic....(just don't call me late for dinner)....but, isn't it plausible that we just play our best 22 available each week and try and develop a tagger from that squad. Yes Stinger was a good tagger but he secured his place in the side because of his ball-getting ability first and foremost. Yes we will miss Stinger but Gibbo and Thommo are fair replacements. Yes Shirley, Mattner, and 1 or 2 others could possibly do a tagging job. Yes, The Count is too light to do a tagging job.

I just don't think the role of a tagger is worth almost 2 weeks discussion in about 6 different threads.....hey I know.....lets learn the midfielders to have a defensive string to their current unaccountable bows and if a Stinger or Kane Cornes comes out of that lot then fantastic.

Don't mean to labour the point, but we must play our best 22 because in our squad after the first 14 or so......the depth tends to level out very quickly. We need to get TALENT on the ground and if a tagger falls out of that then great, but we just don't play someone for their tagging ability. That's not, and wasn't the basis for K Cornes' and Stinger's selection...and shouldn't be the basis for future selection.....

thoughts, ridicule.....?

 

[Markthirtytwo]

Don't mean to labour the point, but we must play our best 22.

Yes we do MD but on a week by week basis. ie injuries, suspensions whatever. Pretty sure not the same will prevail each week unfortunately, so there might be a spot or two for the younguns' if it occurs.

 

[No 1 Draft Pick]

thoughts, ridicule.....?

I reckon youve copped a little too much of that hot summer sun in this case MD


We need a tagger in our team. And that tagger (in the Crows case - unlike Cornes/Ling etc) wont be in the most naturally talented 22 players in our squad. But IMO we need to have a designated stopper - otherwise the Judds/Crawfords/Buckleys will just run absolutely riot against us (even more than normal )

If we just picked all the most talented midfielders every week like the Big 4 plus Thompson/Ladhams/Bode/Johncock etc etc and asked one of them to play the stopping role it wouldnt be as effective as having a designated tagger (like Shirley/Mattner). Thats because the Big 4 and others natural game is more attacking and they wouldnt be up to the job IMO. AND would you want to 'waste' any of those attacking players in a defensive role - remember all the hoo-ha about Mc Leod on the HBF

As much as I hate to say it because our options are almost leagues worst in terms of taggers, we do need to play Shirley or Mattner until someone else puts their hand up. I like the Port Power method of using newer draftees in this role to help them learn the ropes - Nye/Knights could therefore become viable options in 2006 onwards

 

[Mad Dog]

I reckon youve copped a little too much of that hot summer sun in this case MD


We need a tagger in our team.

If we just picked all the most talented midfielders every week like the Big 4 plus Thompson/Ladhams/Bode/Johncock etc etc and asked one of them to play the stopping role it wouldnt be as effective as having a designated tagger (like Shirley/Mattner). Thats because the Big 4 and others natural game is more attacking and they wouldnt be up to the job IMO. AND would you want to 'waste' any of those attacking players in a defensive role - remember all the hoo-ha about Mc Leod on the HBF

Fair enough #1......I suppose I'm coming at it from the angle that Mattner is in my 22....and possibly Torney. The other thing to consider is midfield rotations where the Judds/Crawfords/Buckley's are rotated through different zones on the ground and therefore could feasibly have different opponents depending if they are on the ball or resting up forward. Another thing is we are never going to restrict these guys in terms of weight of possessions - it's more about where they get them and if we can hurt them on the way back.
Looking back to Rob Harvey of a few years back...he would still get his 20-35 possys but he would get them down back. I'm certainly not advocating wasting one of our attacking midfielders on a tagging role.....but it's going to be horses for courses each week.....not just the same approach with a designated tagger for the year.....but I take your point .....to a point..

 

[macca23]

We need a tagger in our team. And that tagger (in the Crows case - unlike Cornes/Ling etc) wont be in the most naturally talented 22 players in our squad. But IMO we need to have a designated stopper - otherwise the Judds/Crawfords/Buckleys will just run absolutely riot against us (even more than normal )

If we just picked all the most talented midfielders every week like the Big 4 plus Thompson/Ladhams/Bode/Johncock etc etc and asked one of them to play the stopping role it wouldnt be as effective as having a designated tagger (like Shirley/Mattner). Thats because the Big 4 and others natural game is more attacking and they wouldnt be up to the job IMO. AND would you want to 'waste' any of those attacking players in a defensive role - remember all the hoo-ha about Mc Leod on the HBF

As much as I hate to say it because our options are almost leagues worst in terms of taggers, we do need to play Shirley or Mattner until someone else puts their hand up. I like the Port Power method of using newer draftees in this role to help them learn the ropes - Nye/Knights could therefore become viable options in 2006 onwards

Beautifully put!! They don't call You No 1 for nothing!!

It certainly looks like Shirley for 2005, and I reckon you might just have nominated the right 2 newbies as propects for that role as from 2006.

 

[Mad Dog]

Beautifully put!! They don't call You No 1 for nothing!!

It certainly looks like Shirley for 2005, and I reckon you might just have nominated the right 2 newbies as propects for that role as from 2006.

So Shirley is in your starting 18 each week for 2005 Macca23 ??

Which of Roo, Goody, Macca, Edwards, and Reilly will be starting on the bench each week ?

 

[macca23]

So Shirley is in your starting 18 each week for 2005 Macca23 ??

Which of Roo, Goody, Macca, Edwards, and Reilly will be starting on the bench each week ?

Shirley will start most weeks MD. There will be weeks against the lesser sides where you might go without a tagger, but because he's one of a kind, he'll play most weeks IMO, although not in our best 22 ability wise.

Roo will start in the middle, Goody on a HB flank, Reilly on a wing, Macca on the ball, and Edwards in a forward pocket - my line-up anyway, with Thompson and Bode rotated in off the bench.

No difference as to when Stinger was there, MD. Just read Shirley for Stinger.

 

[Mad Dog]

Shirley will start most weeks MD. There will be weeks against the lesser sides where you might go without a tagger, but because he's one of a kind, he'll play most weeks IMO, although not in our best 22 ability wise.

Roo will start in the middle, Goody on a HB flank, Reilly on a wing, Macca on the ball, and Edwards in a forward pocket - my line-up anyway, with Thompson and Bode rotated in off the bench.

No difference as to when Stinger was there, MD. Just read Shirley for Stinger.

ok....I'm reading Thommo for Stinger.....and also factoring in Goodwin who effectively hasn't played for a season and a half (which has been Stinger's most effective and influencial patch).

I understand what you're saying Macca23....I'm just concerned that from last years midfield we have Thommo in for Stinger, and then add Goody. If we are then saying Shirley is in our 18 most weeks then 2 of that lot needs to drop out. Is that Mattner (possibly), Johncock...no.

Obviously injuries will shape the side and it's naive to think they won't.....but I wouldn't be playing Shirley on the strength of his tagging abilities in front of Roo, Macca, Goody, Thommo, Edwards, Reilly, Mattner, Johncock, Bode, Torney, and yes, throw in Birdbrain in that midfield mix.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

call me stupid, visionary, or simplistic....(just don't call me late for dinner)....but, isn't it plausible that we just play our best 22 available each week and try and develop a tagger from that squad. Yes Stinger was a good tagger but he secured his place in the side because of his ball-getting ability first and foremost. Yes we will miss Stinger but Gibbo and Thommo are fair replacements. Yes Shirley, Mattner, and 1 or 2 others could possibly do a tagging job. Yes, The Count is too light to do a tagging job.

I just don't think the role of a tagger is worth almost 2 weeks discussion in about 6 different threads.....hey I know.....lets learn the midfielders to have a defensive string to their current unaccountable bows and if a Stinger or Kane Cornes comes out of that lot then fantastic.

Don't mean to labour the point, but we must play our best 22 because in our squad after the first 14 or so......the depth tends to level out very quickly. We need to get TALENT on the ground and if a tagger falls out of that then great, but we just don't play someone for their tagging ability. That's not, and wasn't the basis for K Cornes' and Stinger's selection...and shouldn't be the basis for future selection.....

thoughts, ridicule.....?

Yeah good points MD. I agree, start with our best 22, which doesn't include Shirley, and see where the cards fall. Why should one of Roo, Goody, Edwards, Thomson, Mcleod, Bode, Riley, possibly Johncock be left just so we can include an average "tagger".

BTW I'm going to start a "Name your AFC MVP" as we haven't had one of those threads for awhile. I look forward to your comment.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Shirley will start most weeks MD. There will be weeks against the lesser sides where you might go without a tagger, but because he's one of a kind, he'll play most weeks IMO, although not in our best 22 ability wise.

Roo will start in the middle, Goody on a HB flank, Reilly on a wing, Macca on the ball, and Edwards in a forward pocket - my line-up anyway, with Thompson and Bode rotated in off the bench.

No difference as to when Stinger was there, MD. Just read Shirley for Stinger.

Yeah I agree re Shirley for Singer..Stinger >>>>>>>>>>Shirley.

 

[Mad Dog]

BTW I'm going to start a "Name your AFC MVP" as we haven't had one of those threads for awhile. I look forward to your comment.

cool.... ....I'll give it some thought in the mean time and try and narrow it down.......

Yeah good points MD. I agree, start with our best 22, which doesn't include Shirley, and see where the cards fall. Why should one of Roo, Goody, Edwards, Thomson, Mcleod, Bode, Riley, possibly Johncock be left just so we can include an average "tagger".

This is my point exactly....I agree that Shirley is our best prospect at a tagging role (sad as that sounds... )......my question is.....who goes out to bring him in ??

 

[blighty]

call me stupid, visionary, or simplistic....(just don't call me late for dinner)....but, isn't it plausible that we just play our best 22 available each week and try and develop a tagger from that squad. Yes Stinger was a good tagger but he secured his place in the side because of his ball-getting ability first and foremost. Yes we will miss Stinger but Gibbo and Thommo are fair replacements. Yes Shirley, Mattner, and 1 or 2 others could possibly do a tagging job. Yes, The Count is too light to do a tagging job.

I just don't think the role of a tagger is worth almost 2 weeks discussion in about 6 different threads.....hey I know.....lets learn the midfielders to have a defensive string to their current unaccountable bows and if a Stinger or Kane Cornes comes out of that lot then fantastic.

Don't mean to labour the point, but we must play our best 22 because in our squad after the first 14 or so......the depth tends to level out very quickly. We need to get TALENT on the ground and if a tagger falls out of that then great, but we just don't play someone for their tagging ability. That's not, and wasn't the basis for K Cornes' and Stinger's selection...and shouldn't be the basis for future selection.....

thoughts, ridicule.....?

Could not agree more, well constructed case.It's interesting that Craig's comments when appointing assistants was that Noble was to be the assistant coach charged with defensive tactics all over the ground.That would suggest strategies built around when we don't have the ball wherever the play is.
If the overall emphasis is on an attacking style of play then tagging the oppositions best player becomes a secondary consideration.They have to match our ball winners...

 

[Bockchoy67]

I reckon youve copped a little too much of that hot summer sun in this case MD


We need a tagger in our team. And that tagger (in the Crows case - unlike Cornes/Ling etc) wont be in the most naturally talented 22 players in our squad. But IMO we need to have a designated stopper - otherwise the Judds/Crawfords/Buckleys will just run absolutely riot against us (even more than normal )

If we just picked all the most talented midfielders every week like the Big 4 plus Thompson/Ladhams/Bode/Johncock etc etc and asked one of them to play the stopping role it wouldnt be as effective as having a designated tagger (like Shirley/Mattner). Thats because the Big 4 and others natural game is more attacking and they wouldnt be up to the job IMO. AND would you want to 'waste' any of those attacking players in a defensive role - remember all the hoo-ha about Mc Leod on the HBF

As much as I hate to say it because our options are almost leagues worst in terms of taggers, we do need to play Shirley or Mattner until someone else puts their hand up. I like the Port Power method of using newer draftees in this role to help them learn the ropes - Nye/Knights could therefore become viable options in 2006 onwards

Great points, well done.

However I would rather have Van Berlo as a tagger (and even that would be a little too far) than Knights, as Chris always seems to kick a few goals each game, while Nathan has a more defensive side to his game.

I agree that either Shirley or Mattner need to play, but let's just hope there are better options come 2006.

 

[No 1 Draft Pick]

More training reports from Matty Robran

The heat is on: on and off the track
11:07:51 AM Thu 13 January, 2005
matthew robran
afc.com.au

It may have been a ‘stinking hot’ morning as the Crows took to the track for their Thursday session, but the in the end, the heat was well and truly on the track. Despite the oppressive conditions and to the delight of the fans that had gathered at West Lakes to watch, the team trained as if there were no tomorrow.

It has proved to be one tough week on the track.


Monday’s sessions was conducted in35 degree heat and there was no going easy on the players as they went though a solid 90-minute session. As the mercury rose on Tuesday to a stifling 40 degrees the team endured a massive 2 hour 20 minute session at Norwood Oval. Despite the heat, the players trained as if it was mid season with plenty of enthusiasm and vigour.

With the temperatures soaring the players must ensure they take on board adequate fluid levels to see them through each tough session. Hydration throughout training becomes extremely important when the mercury rises.

“The players know the importance of drinking plenty of fluids before each session,” Fitness Coach Stephen Schwerdt said before training on Thursday. “They look after their bodies very well.

“We make sure we have plenty of drink breaks throughout training. As today’s session is in 30 degree plus heat, we make sure all players have something to drink during these breaks,” he said.

“We also use ice vests to cool the player’s body temperatures down, so plenty of precautions are taken when we train in hot weather.”

Thursday’s session itself was another tough one – designed to test the physical and mental toughness of each individual in the hot conditions.

The two main areas that were in focus today were skills, followed by a modified scratch match. The skill drills were done exceptionally well with the increase in the teams’ skill level evident. The scratch match was particularly spirited with all players eager to impress the coaching group.

Andrew McLeod, who rolled an ankle during Monday’s session was restricted to light duties indoors, however ‘Bunji’ should be ready to go full bore come next week. Luke Jericho was put through a series of testing running exercises and he looks to be close to resuming full training, while Scott Thompson and draftees Chris Knights and Ivan Maric completed some stationary skills on the boundary line. All players should be right to go next week.

With the Club keen to dramatically improve on last year’s result, the players are constantly training under the watchful eye on the video recorder. Scaffolding has been erected behind the goals on Max Basheer Reserve and all drills are recorded and then studied by the coaching group to see how the players are progressing and where the team can further improve.