Transfer Discussion Thread

[chef]

Would certainly benefit us and the stupid fees we pay.

 

[jd2010]

It's not even about allowing another City, I still remember staying up late to see we'd signed the likes of Damarcus Beasley and Nerys Castillo. And loving it, it's a great part of being a fan.

FFP/PSR is a different issue imo. I'm all for clubs being protected, and having rules in place for that to happen. I'm not sure FFP achieves that, and it certainly hasn't stopped clubs going bust through bad management. Leeds, for example would have passed FFP if it was in place, and at that point I was posting on here about how much in the financial s**t they were.

But that's been done to death, my point is that I'm not sure we should be celebrating clubs not signing anyone. For me it's a win for accountancy over sport.

Leeds wouldn't have passed an equivalent FFP for those times when wages and transfer fees were a lot smaller than they are now

 

[moomba]

Leeds wouldn't have passed an equivalent FFP for those times when wages and transfer fees were a lot smaller than they are now

From memory they either made a profit or a small loss the year before they went bust. But that was based on champions league money coming in (£18m from memory) so they were really vulnerable if they ended up not qualifying. Which turned out to be the case.

They also bought a lot of players on terms that were pretty cheap up front but a lot of future payments. Again from memory they were either paying Danny Mills or Robbie Fowler a pretty big wedge years after they left the club.

[Edit]Googled and they also took out a £60m loan against future gate revenue to fund transfers.

 

[jd2010]

From memory they either made a profit or a small loss the year before they went bust. But that was based on champions league money coming in (£18m from memory) so they were really vulnerable if they ended up not qualifying. Which turned out to be the case.

They also bought a lot of players on terms that were pretty cheap up front but a lot of future payments. Again from memory they were either paying Danny Mills or Robbie Fowler a pretty big wedge years after they left the club.

[Edit]Googled and they also took out a £60m against future gate revenue to fund transfers.

They went from nearly debt free to over 100m in debt in just over a 3 years, off the back of no infrastructure spend and purely fees and wages

At a time when 20m was enough to get superstars.

In today's terms that would going from debt free to about 500m in debt over 3 years, without investment in stadiums and academy setups. That surely fails FFP

 

[moomba]

They went from nearly debt free to over 100m in debt in just over a 3 years, off the back of no infrastructure spend and purely fees and wages

At a time when 20m was enough to get superstars.

In today's terms that would going from debt free to about 500m in debt over 3 years, without investment in stadiums and academy setups. That surely fails FFP

As long as you can service the interest, debt isn't a problem as far as FFP goes. Leeds banked on qualifying for the champions league every year and that would fund the payments.

If you can't service the debt (as happened at Leeds) it probably will have an FFP impact, but probably not until a couple of years after you've already put yourself in the shit.

They were already done for by the time that debt first would have appeared on an FFP return.

 

[moomba]

FWIW, debt was what FFP was originally brought in to control, Niall Quinn as Sunderland chairman was at the first meetings.

It got changed to spending after pressure from certain clubs.

Debt controls would have been a much better thing for the game.

 

[jd2010]

As long as you can service the interest, debt isn't a problem as far as FFP goes. Leeds banked on qualifying for the champions league every year and that would fund the payments.

If you can't service the debt (as happened at Leeds) it probably will have an FFP impact, but probably not until a couple of years after you've already put yourself in the s**t.

They were already done for by the time that debt first would have appeared on an FFP return.

Leeds in the summer of 99 spent 40% of its total turnover on summer signings. And got themselves into more and more debt year after year and eventually couldn't service it. Operating profits might have looked good, but cash flow and the balance sheet would have been ugly reading.


FFP isn't a perfect model but it's better than letting clubs do as they please, making losses, borrowing money or relying on being a billionaires toy. There's more examples of heavy spending going wrong than going well

 

[moomba]

Leeds in the summer of 99 spent 40% of its total turnover on summer signings. And got themselves into more and more debt year after year and eventually couldn't service it. Operating profits might have looked good, but cash flow and the balance sheet would have been ugly reading.


FFP isn't a perfect model but it's better than letting clubs do as they please, making losses, borrowing money or relying on being a billionaires toy. There's more examples of heavy spending going wrong than going well

It was ugly reading, I posted about it when I first joined BF. It was obvious to me that it was an accident waiting to happen.

Financial controls are fine in my book, its really important that clubs are protected (FFP doesnt do that imo, and sometimes encourages poor financial decisions).

I'd support any spending rules if they are fair. Wouldn't have a problem with a spending cap if an Everton was allowed to spend as much as us. * Even if it means our spending is reduced as a result.

I'd love champions league money to be spread evenly amongst all teams in the league (and some filtered down to the lower leagues) to reduce that advantaged clubs already there have over clubs that want to be there.

But aa long as I live I'm never going to support financial controls where one club is forbidden from spending as much as a club they are trying to compete against.

* I'd worry about the impact that would have on the league if other leagues were allowed to spend more.

 

[RossFC]

 

[Bojan KantKick]

 

[RossFC]

 

[DBAH0]

Can that guy step down so I don’t have to hear from him anymore?

RossFC couldn't help myself.

 

[chef]

Wonder how UEFA deal with this loophole way of getting around FFP.

 

[jd2010]

Wonder how UEFA deal with this loophole way of getting around FFP.

Do you mean Girona are selling to City for an inflated fee to help their FFP?

Or are they selling for real cheap and City will just on sell for a profit to help their FFP?

 

[Zidane98]

Do you mean Girona are selling to City for an inflated fee to help their FFP?

Or are they selling for real cheap and City will just on sell for a profit to help their FFP?

He is actually owned by Troyes.

 

[chef]

Do you mean Girona are selling to City for an inflated fee to help their FFP?

Or are they selling for real cheap and City will just on sell for a profit to help their FFP?

More the multi clubs selling players to themselves, not just City. It seems to be a growing trend and fees can easily be manipulated.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Do you mean Girona are selling to City for an inflated fee to help their FFP?

Or are they selling for real cheap and City will just on sell for a profit to help their FFP?

Someone forgot to warn the lad in a couple of years he'll be playing Vanarama League.

 

[jd2010]

Someone forgot to warn the lad in a couple of years he'll be playing Vanarama League.

I was hoping we'd get him! Could do another Porro

 

[moomba]

Wonder how UEFA deal with this loophole way of getting around FFP.

Any transfer between associated parties needs to be at a price deemed fair market value.

 

[moomba]

Someone forgot to warn the lad in a couple of years he'll be playing Vanarama League.

National League, Champions League, FA Cup treble is still on.

 

[SM]

Any transfer between associated parties needs to be at a price deemed fair market value.

What is fair market value determined by? When it comes to player values it's almost impossible.

 

[jd2010]

He is actually owned by Troyes.

 

[moomba]

What is fair market value determined by? When it comes to player values it's almost impossible.

I dont think they've mentioned specifics but they'll compare to other transfers, taking into account things like age, other bids, length of contract, wage etc.

 

[Zidane98]

I dont think they've mentioned specifics but they'll compare to other transfers, taking into account things like age, other bids, length of contract, wage etc.

Not difficult for a muti club ownership to manipulate those figures in their favor though.

 

[jd2010]

Not difficult for a muti club ownership to manipulate those figures in their favor though.

If you manipulate it over or under paying you're just stuffing the other club in the group up. I guess with CFG Troyes and Melb City are well down the pecking order.