Transgender

[Gralin]

Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Benny78]

View attachment 354348

 

[kirsti]

Explain your definition of these.

Google them mate.

 

[igon value]

She is a spectacular athlete.

Also a bloke.

 

[CM86]

it took me a while to come around to homosexuals not being mentally ill

I find that really interesting. Can you give some more detail on this? Like, what changed your mind? What made you think it was a mental illness? How long ago/age? That kind of thing.
Do you feel that religion played a part, at all?

 

[perthblue]

http://www.courant.com/sports/high-...ack-andraya-yearwood-0407-20170406-story.html

Track coach 38 seconds into the video in the link. "I have a spectacular female athlete. There's nothing more to say".

Yeeeeeah i can't imagine the actual females in those races were too happy.

 

[TimmeT]

Yeeeeeah i can't imagine the actual females in those races were too happy.

Reminds me greatly of Caster Semenya and the Olympic event last year where they reckoned the person she beat and possibly 3rd place had the same condition she did. There sorta seemed to be a lack of enthusiasm when the event was done and more discussion on the condition.

 

[TimmeT]

Google them mate.

Ahh so you cannot back up your supposed claims that some trans people are straight etc. I guess the individual can reach their own conclusion on what this means then.

 

[kirsti]

Ahh so you cannot back up your supposed claims that some trans people are straight etc. I guess the individual can reach their own conclusion on what this means then.

I have held an AMA on transgender issues on Big Footy,

 

[checkraiseulite]

to an extent i don't care what she does so long as it doesn't interfere with other people.

having her absolutely dominate girls' sport is ridiculous, particularly in a country where sporting success is a window to so much opportunity (college scholarships etc).

no doubt people in the article are petrified of being labelled bigots if they make any comment other than supportive nonsense.

 

[kirsti]

to an extent i don't care what she does so long as it doesn't interfere with other people.

having her absolutely dominate girls' sport is ridiculous, particularly in a country where sporting success is a window to so much opportunity (college scholarships etc).

no doubt people in the article are petrified of being labelled bigots if they make any comment other than supportive nonsense.

I am a transgender athlete who totally disagrees with the current International Olympic Committees transgender policy which was amended in 2015.

The AFL has also amended its policy both policies having removed permanent gender confirmation surgery as a requirement and halved the amount of time that testosterone levels have to be maintained from 2 years to 12 months.

The AFL has no requirement for hormone levels to be reduced, hormone replacement therapy is not now a requirement for a male to female transgender player to qualify them to play women's football. The AFL will accept a state issued identification like a drivers licence but it does not require an amended birth certificate.

Any male AFL can change their state issued ID and play AFL immediately such as is happening with a trans player Emily Rowe in Shepparton Victoria.

With the AFL,s current policy Buddy Franklin, Patrick Dangerfield and Taylor Walker could all play women's AFLW next year if they wish to do so. These current policies are a danger to the health and wellbeing of female athletes in full contact sports like the AFL.

 

[checkraiseulite]

so the shoe is on the other foot when it affects you?

 

[kirsti]

so the shoe is on the other foot when it affects you?

Not at all I first and foremost play sport for enjoyment and fair play if ever I thought I had a physical advantage over my female teammates I would not play the game.

Pre operative without HRT I would defiantly if had a massive advantage. We haven't found the right balance of fairness yet with trans athletes and defiantly removing hormone treatment as a requirement is a huge step in the wrong direction as is the 12month period of hormone treatment required by the IOC

 

[Appa]

I am a woman from a transgender background and I am not mentally ill, your post is transphobic to the extreme.

Calling gender dysphoria a mental illness is not transphobic but simply factual. It is listed in the DSM-5 and is correctly classified as a mental illness. This fact has no bearing on how transgendered people should be treated just like the fact having depression or anxiety shouldn't be weaponised because they too are mental illnesses. Quickly shutting down someone by calling them "transphobic to the extreme" helps no one.

 

[Gough]

Calling gender dysphoria a mental illness is not transphobic but simply factual. It is listed in the DSM-5 and is correctly classified as a mental illness. This fact has no bearing on how transgendered people should be treated just like the fact having depression or anxiety shouldn't be weaponised because they too are mental illnesses. Quickly shutting down someone by calling them "transphobic to the extreme" helps no one.

Homosexuality was on the DSM until the 1970s too. We've heard all these tired arguments before.

 

[kirsti]

Calling gender dysphoria a mental illness is not transphobic but simply factual. It is listed in the DSM-5 and is correctly classified as a mental illness. This fact has no bearing on how transgendered people should be treated just like the fact having depression or anxiety shouldn't be weaponised because they too are mental illnesses. Quickly shutting down someone by calling them "transphobic to the extreme" helps no one.[/QUOTE

ep2006 said: ↑


I have trans friends, and it took me a while to come around to homosexuals not being mentally ill, but I honestly believe trans people, people who are born with one genders bits but believe they are the other gender, to be mentally ill"

That is the quote I called out as transphobic and I still do.

 

[kirsti]

I have trans friends, and it took me a while to come around to homosexuals not being mentally ill, but I honestly believe trans people, people who are born with one genders bits but believe they are the other gender, to be mentally ill.

Clearly transphobic.

 

[checkraiseulite]

if you cannot see the difference between a sexual preference and identifying as being one gender 'trapped' in the the body of another gender you're bordering on delusional.

i think identifying as transgender has more in common with multiple personality disorder than homosexuality.

 

[kirsti]

Calling gender dysphoria a mental illness is not transphobic but simply factual. It is listed in the DSM-5 and is correctly classified as a mental illness. This fact has no bearing on how transgendered people should be treated just like the fact having depression or anxiety shouldn't be weaponised because they too are mental illnesses. Quickly shutting down someone by calling them "transphobic to the extreme" helps no one.

ep2006 said: ↑


I have trans friends, and it took me a while to come around to homosexuals not being mentally ill, but I honestly believe trans people, people who are born with one genders bits but believe they are the other gender, to be mentally ill.

Is this transphobic?

 

[kirsti]

if you cannot see the difference between a sexual preference and identifying as being one gender 'trapped' in the the body of another gender you're bordering on delusional.

i think identifying as transgender has more in common with multiple personality disorder than homosexuality.

Nothing remotely like multiple personality disorder most trans people know from a very early age of their gender identity and.it.doesn't change. I agree being transgender has nothing to do with a persons sexual preference.

Our gender is who we go to bed as our sexuality relates to who we go to bed with.

 

[Appa]

Clearly transphobic.

To be fair he hasn't very eloquently put forward his idea. He has said he believed homosexuals to be mentally ill but doesn't anymore. This is terrible and I don't know how he ever thought such a thing but he acknowledges he was wrong which is good. He has also said he believes transgendered people are mentally ill which is entirely accurate.

Transphobia to my understanding is negative attitudes towards transgendered people. This can materialise in many different ways. Calling something a mental illness is not an attack and not something to be taking offence towards. If someone called someone mentally ill because they had depression or anxiety would you think they are intolerant of them?

I agree that transgenderism has nothing to do with sexual preference. That idea is just absurd.

 

[Jello_B]

To be fair he hasn't very eloquently put forward his idea. He has said he believed homosexuals to be mentally ill but doesn't anymore. This is terrible and I don't know how he ever thought such a thing but he acknowledges he was wrong which is good. He has also said he believes transgendered people are mentally ill which is entirely accurate.

Transphobia to my understanding is negative attitudes towards transgendered people. This can materialise in many different ways. Calling something a mental illness is not an attack and not something to be taking offence towards. If someone called someone mentally ill because they had depression or anxiety would you think they are intolerant of them?

I agree that transgenderism has nothing to do with sexual preference. That idea is just absurd.

Is phobia a negative attitude? Looked it up and its fear or aversion. I initially thought fear only. Why is phobia such a bad thing? It is not unnatural for people to fear or be averse to something that is foreign or new.

 

[Gough]

if you cannot see the difference between a sexual preference and identifying as being one gender 'trapped' in the the body of another gender you're bordering on delusional.

i think identifying as transgender has more in common with multiple personality disorder than homosexuality.

I've said it before, but you guys would have been homophobes back in the day, earnestly citing the DSM on why homosexuality should remain illegal. I simply can't believe trans people are going to have fight all the same ignorance that we had to face. It's probably why gay people are so vocal in support, we've lived through this sort of bullshit before.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Nothing remotely like multiple personality disorder most trans people know from a very early age of their gender identity and.it.doesn't change. I agree being transgender has nothing to do with a persons sexual preference.

Our gender is who we go to bed as our sexuality relates to who we go to bed with.

This article sheds some light on it, with science seemingly pointing to the fact trans people literally don't have the same mind as their birth gender.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

...Several studies have looked for signs that transgender people have brains more similar to their experienced gender. Spanish investigators—led by psychobiologist Antonio Guillamon of the National Distance Education University in Madrid and neuropsychologist Carme Junqué Plaja of the University of Barcelona—used MRI to examine the brains of 24 female-to-males and 18 male-to-females—both before and after treatment with cross-sex hormones. Their results, published in 2013, showed that even before treatment the brain structures of the trans people were more similar in some respects to the brains of their experienced gender than those of their natal gender. For example, the female-to-male subjects had relatively thin subcortical areas (these areas tend to be thinner in men than in women). Male-to-female subjects tended to have thinner cortical regions in the right hemisphere, which is characteristic of a female brain. (Such differences became more pronounced after treatment.)

“Trans people have brains that are different from males and females, a unique kind of brain,” Guillamon says. “It is simplistic to say that a female-to-male transgender person is a female trapped in a male body. It's not because they have a male brain but a transsexual brain.” Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn.

Other investigators have looked at sex differences through brain functioning. In a study published in 2014, psychologist Sarah M. Burke of VU University Medical Center in Amsterdam and biologist Julie Bakker of the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience used functional MRI to examine how 39 prepubertal and 41 adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded to androstadienone, an odorous steroid with pheromonelike properties that is known to cause a different response in the hypothalamus of men versus women. They found that the adolescent boys and girls with gender dysphoria responded much like peers of their experienced gender. The results were less clear with the prepubertal children.

This kind of study is important, says Baudewijntje Kreukels, an expert on gender dysphoria at VU University Medical Center, “because sex differences in responding to odors cannot be influenced by training or environment.” The same can be said of another 2014 experiment by Burke and her colleagues. They measured the responses of boys and girls with gender dysphoria to echolike sounds produced by the inner ear in response to a clicking noise. Boys with gender dysphoria responded more like typical females, who have a stronger response to these sounds. But girls with gender dysphoria also responded like typical females...

 

[WA ROO]

I am a transgender athlete who totally disagrees with the current International Olympic Committees transgender policy which was amended in 2015.

The AFL has also amended its policy both policies having removed permanent gender confirmation surgery as a requirement and halved the amount of time that testosterone levels have to be maintained from 2 years to 12 months.

The AFL has no requirement for hormone levels to be reduced, hormone replacement therapy is not now a requirement for a male to female transgender player to qualify them to play women's football. The AFL will accept a state issued identification like a drivers licence but it does not require an amended birth certificate.

Any male AFL can change their state issued ID and play AFL immediately such as is happening with a trans player Emily Rowe in Shepparton Victoria.

With the AFL,s current policy Buddy Franklin, Patrick Dangerfield and Taylor Walker could all play women's AFLW next year if they wish to do so. These current policies are a danger to the health and wellbeing of female athletes in full contact sports like the AFL.

Think about the women competing in Boxing,Judo,Wrestling and other combat sports
Trans MMA fighter Fallon Fox destroyed several women inside the cage

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I simply can't believe trans people are going to have fight all the same ignorance that we had to face.

I can, Gough. Sadly, for each change human society has gone through there has always been resistance. Social conservatives fear what they can't understand, and many can't and don't want to understand homosexuality or transgenderism.

Sometimes this is even a psychological response, especially against homosexuality - sexual preference repression leads to self-loathing among some individuals. Usually this is due to upbringing. They see this side of themselves and are terrified, they know it's going to be unacceptable in their surroundings and they have been brought up to view that way as 'abhorrent' and 'against the natural biological urge to breed'.

So they hate themselves.