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Transgender

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Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...
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Gethelred said:
I'm making a point, the idea point being that we - the universal 'we' - made the rules for what constitutes sporting categories in ways that replicate our own pre-existing biases, and in so doing we ensured that those hard boundaries limit those within a lesser category.
Click to expand...
Sorry, what? Having sex-based sporting categories doesn't "replicate pre-existing biases". It reflects the average physical differences between males and females. If we didn't have this segregation, females (even the exceptional ones) would be effectively excluded from competing at the elite level. It's that simple.

Gethelred said:
If a woman were to dream to play AFL, and she has the physical capability to do it, should she be allowed to try?
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Personally, I'd say that's fine. My preferred approach is to have an open category (open to all) and a women's category (eligibility limited to females). Still, as others have said, I can't imagine women getting anywhere near an AFL list. In almost every sport, there's basically zero overlap at the elite level between the performance levels of males and females.
 
kickazz said:
Of course the physical differences are the core reason for separate categories. But then you ask yourself - that being the case, why not have Olympic categories like these:

Under six foot
Genetically low responder to VO2max training
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Oh, for God's sake: Because height is a spectrum; sex is not. Having restricted categories based on height would be absurd ("And now it's time for the 100m FS final for people between 175cm and 183cm..."). Having restricted categories based on sex is the only way of ensuring women's inclusion, and of ensuring that exceptional female athletes are celebrated.
 
The Tilt said:
Oh, for God's sake: Because height is a spectrum; sex is not. Having restricted categories based on height would be absurd ("And now it's time for the 100m FS final for people between 175cm and 183cm..."). Having restricted categories based on sex is the only way of ensuring women's inclusion, and of ensuring that exceptional female athletes are celebrated.
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Pretty sure the Paralympics have graded sections.

And the non responder gene thing is not graded.

So it's not the number of categories, but what they mean to us.
 
Ed_Gein said:
I don't hate gay people. Actually have nothing against them one bit. My comment is solely in reference to the prominence of LGB promotion being a walking advertisement for their sexuality. Why does the rest of the world have to know about it all the time?
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It pays my wages, my company sent me to Sydney for a few weeks for International Pride, as far as I’m aware, the two week event had fewer arrests than an average game of AFL.
I see how you conveniently left out the ‘TQI’ in your vapid remark, do you feel left out in publicising your sexuality?
 

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Gralin said:
Wanna bet?
Click to expand...
Groan Here we go.

There are two sexes because there are two types of gamete: large static ones (ova), and small mobile ones (sperm). To be female is to have reproductive system designed large gametes; to be male is to have reproductive system designed to produce small gametes. This is why there are male and female crocodiles, male and female kangaroos, and male and female humans.

Since there's no third type of gamete, there are no more than two sexes. This is despite the silly stuff I suspect you've read on twitter about intersex conditions, and despite laughably bad articles like the one linked below. A helpful tip: if someone's pretending to explain the complexities of biological sex but fails include 'gametes' in that explanation, it's a good idea to stop listening to them.

www.scientificamerican.com

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
 
The Tilt said:
Groan Here we go.

There are two sexes because there are two types of gamete: large static ones (ova), and small mobile ones (sperm). To be female is to have reproductive system designed large gametes; to be male is to have reproductive system designed to produce small gametes. This is why there are male and female crocodiles, male and female kangaroos, and male and female humans.

Since there's no third type of gamete, there are no more than two sexes. This is despite the silly stuff I suspect you've read on twitter about intersex conditions, and despite laughably bad articles like the one linked below. A helpful tip: if someone's pretending to explain the complexities of biological sex but fails include 'gametes' in that explanation, it's a good idea to stop listening to them.

www.scientificamerican.com

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
Click to expand...
Agree. Two sexes, which are objective biological things, and multiple genders, which are social constructs strongly aligned with sex.
 
The Tilt said:
Groan Here we go.

There are two sexes because there are two types of gamete: large static ones (ova), and small mobile ones (sperm). To be female is to have reproductive system designed large gametes; to be male is to have reproductive system designed to produce small gametes. This is why there are male and female crocodiles, male and female kangaroos, and male and female humans.

Since there's no third type of gamete, there are no more than two sexes. This is despite the silly stuff I suspect you've read on twitter about intersex conditions, and despite laughably bad articles like the one linked below. A helpful tip: if someone's pretending to explain the complexities of biological sex but fails include 'gametes' in that explanation, it's a good idea to stop listening to them.

www.scientificamerican.com

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
Click to expand...
And to pre-empt the usual argument that follows, no, intersex is not another sex. Not that it particularly matters to the argument, but worth noting that the overwhelming majority of intersex people do in fact produce large or small gametes and present the secondary sexual characteristics of that sex.
 
The Tilt said:
Groan Here we go.

There are two sexes because there are two types of gamete: large static ones (ova), and small mobile ones (sperm). To be female is to have reproductive system designed large gametes; to be male is to have reproductive system designed to produce small gametes. This is why there are male and female crocodiles, male and female kangaroos, and male and female humans.

Since there's no third type of gamete, there are no more than two sexes. This is despite the silly stuff I suspect you've read on twitter about intersex conditions, and despite laughably bad articles like the one linked below. A helpful tip: if someone's pretending to explain the complexities of biological sex but fails include 'gametes' in that explanation, it's a good idea to stop listening to them.

www.scientificamerican.com

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
Click to expand...
We're bimodal not binary.
There are more than two combinations of chromosomes, hormones etc.

Gametes are one marker, but this idea that there are only two ways people exist is bullshit conservative crap
 
ShanDog said:
And to pre-empt the usual argument that follows, no, intersex is not another sex. Not that it particularly matters to the argument, but worth noting that the overwhelming majority of intersex people do in fact produce large or small gametes and present the secondary sexual characteristics of that sex.
Click to expand...
Who says it's another sex?
It's not even one thing, there are many different presentations, which is the whole point.

Intersex people are also about as common statistically as red heads but I don't see people arguing that there are only two hair colours
 

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Gralin said:
Who says it's another sex?
It's not even one thing, there are many different presentations, which is the whole point.

Intersex people are also about as common statistically as red heads but I don't see people arguing that there are only two hair colours
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Many people say that. Erroneously. The point is that regardless of the many presentations, there is no new reproductive function involved, and no new sex category. Intersex is modification to existing categories.

Hair colour is a false equivalence.
 
Chief said:
By definition.
Click to expand...

Correct. If sex segregation were ended there would be no women having careers playing sport, and women only competitions would disappear. Whereas men would dominate every sport. There wouldn't be any professional women's tennis players, no AFLW, no gold medals for women at the Olympics.
 

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Aristotle Pickett said:
Rita Panahi really is a piece of s**t.
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I got a good insight into this years ago.

She used to be on SEN with Daniel Harford on Fridays for some reason. Anyway somehow the conversation came around to someone who lived in Broadmeadows who had their house burgled and stuff.

Her response?

"It's their fault for living there"


Wish I had the audio of it. Fair to say I don't bother reading anything she writes. What a turd.
 
kickazz said:
I got a good insight into this years ago.

She used to be on SEN with Daniel Harford on Fridays for some reason. Anyway somehow the conversation came around to someone who lived in Broadmeadows who had their house burgled and stuff.

Her response?

"It's their fault for living there"


Wish I had the audio of it. Fair to say I don't bother reading anything she writes. What a turd.
Click to expand...
I'm remember her from then. Harford had to tell her to shut up at times.
There was a interview on sbs with her because she was an Iranian immigrant where she said she would never give money to a homeless person because it would not help them.
Her sustained attacks on Thorpe and Indigenous people are disgusting.
 
World Athletics restricts rules around transgender women in female competitions

Similar to swimming’s ruling last year I believe.

World Athletics has banned transgender women from competing in elite female competitions if they have gone through male puberty, according to the sport's governing body.

The council also voted to tighten restrictions on athletes with differences in sex development (DSD), cutting the maximum amount of plasma testosterone for athletes in half, to 2.5 nanomoles per litre from five.
Click to expand...
 
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