Transgender

[Gralin]

Discussion continuing in Part 2 found here

Transgender - Part 2

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Chief]

A recent study showed detransition rate of 36% for trans boys/men. That's also data.

And the author has said that it is being interpreted incorrectly by anti-trans people. Deliberately.

 

[PJays]

It is being interpreted incorrectly

But I thought "the data is the data"

 

[Chief]

But I thought "the data is the data"

No you didn't. You said data has to be interpreted. I agree - take my post as incorrect wording.

 

[Gethelred]

My choice is to be thoughtful and reasonable. What's yours?


Data doesn't speak for itself. It needs interpretation. That's where critical thinking is supposed to come into play.

A recent study showed detransition rate of 36% for trans boys/men. That's also data.

You mean, the study one of your links in the post above spends substantial time discussing the limitations of?

Dude, you are incredibly selective about which data you choose to emphasize and which you choose to ignore. You're more than willing to overlook the evidence of more than 20 years of study because it doesn't back up your anti-trans position.

 

[The Tilt]

Worth reading the Age piece on an internal report on transphobia in the Victorian Greens. Some excerpts:

"An internal war within the Victorian Greens over allegations of transphobia has taken an unexpected turn, with the leadership facing pushback from ordinary members who believe bullying by trans activists is a bigger problem within the party than bigotry."

"The report, which the council refused to make available to party members but has been obtained by this masthead, makes no findings against any individuals and does not contain evidence of anti-trans sentiment being rife within the Greens.

The “overwhelming majority” of submissions made to the panel argued there was no transphobia in the party and that two prominent Greens members repeatedly accused of being anti-trans – City of Melbourne councillor Rohan Leppert and senior industrial officer Linda Gale – should be allowed to speak their mind about sex and gender."

"“It has been going on for so long that people are fed up,” the source said. “People want to talk about climate change, they want to talk about housing. They are sick of people coming to their branch meetings and telling them they are transphobic.”"

Lost in Transition: Report lays bare Greens gender rift, warns of split risk

The “overwhelming majority” of submissions to a confidential Greens inquiry argued that trans activists are more harmful to the party than transphobia.

www.theage.com.au

I suspect this exemplifies both the ideological capture that's occurred across many political parties and public institutions, as well as the backlash to it. A small group of zealots have successfully distorted discussion of these issues - mostly by re-describing any dissent from the demands of trans-activists as bigotry, or hatred or whatever. A larger constituency have had enough, and are increasingly prepared to say so. Not before time.

 

[schneebly111]

A larger constituency have had enough, and are increasingly prepared to say so. Not before time.

Did you read your own article:

two prominent Greens members repeatedly accused of being anti-trans

I’m sure there’s more than two greens members.

I watched a livestream of an Australian anti-drag protest. It was hosted by an anti vax media network, and you could lump the small amount of attendees into a few categories: Neo Nazis, Anti Vax Cookers, Religious Nutters, One Nation Supporters And meth heads.

“Larger constituency” my ass

 

[The Tilt]

Did you read your own article:

Yep, i read the article. Did you?

"The “overwhelming majority” of submissions made to the panel [by Party members] argued there was no transphobia in the party".

"The report noted that while five members of Queer Greens Victoria group expressed “distress and concern about what they perceived as transphobia in the [Australian Greens Victoria] AGV”, a further 32 submissions received from the party’s broader membership mostly argued that trans activists were bullies who were hurting the party."

I've no idea what point you're trying to make about Drag shows and anti-vaxers and Nazis etc etc, since the article didn't cover any of things. Sorry, I can't help you with any of that.

 

[Cap]

A larger constituency have had enough, and are increasingly prepared to say so. Not before time.

Who makes up the larger constituents?

The vast majority of people wouldn't care, they'd just want to support fellow humans.

Or are you saying anti trans people like you out number pro trans people?

 

[The Tilt]

Or are you saying anti trans people like you out number pro trans people?

Does Bigfooty have an eye-roll emoji? I coulnd't locate it.

No, I'm saying that people who think that following JK Rowling's twitter account is tantamount to a hate-crime (or "violence" or "liTeRaL NaZisM) are far outnumbered by those who recognise that that's absurd. Hope that helps.

 

[Cap]

Does Bigfooty have an eye-roll emoji? I coulnd't locate it.

No, I'm saying that people who think that following JK Rowling's twitter account is tantamount to a hate-crime (or "violence" or "liTeRaL NaZisM) are far outnumbered by those who recognise that that's absurd. Hope that helps.

I'm just asking questions here.

People like to claim 'silent majority' and such, which you have done with your 'larger constituency' tend to make things up.

Apologies if I got you on the wrong side of the debate.

 

[Cap]

You know a wise man once said: "Impartiality is a pompous name for indifference, which is an elegant name for ignorance."

So if you don't care, where does your support come from?

By not care, I mean have strong feelings against or for because it's such a small issue (to 99% of the population) that certain parts of the community are blowing up for their culture war.

That's why I said moat would support human beings. When pressed, most decent people are going to support what's best for person, not culture war warriors.

 

[PJays]

Worth reading the Age piece on an internal report on transphobia in the Victorian Greens. Some excerpts:

"An internal war within the Victorian Greens over allegations of transphobia has taken an unexpected turn, with the leadership facing pushback from ordinary members who believe bullying by trans activists is a bigger problem within the party than bigotry."

"The report, which the council refused to make available to party members but has been obtained by this masthead, makes no findings against any individuals and does not contain evidence of anti-trans sentiment being rife within the Greens.

The “overwhelming majority” of submissions made to the panel argued there was no transphobia in the party and that two prominent Greens members repeatedly accused of being anti-trans – City of Melbourne councillor Rohan Leppert and senior industrial officer Linda Gale – should be allowed to speak their mind about sex and gender."

"“It has been going on for so long that people are fed up,” the source said. “People want to talk about climate change, they want to talk about housing. They are sick of people coming to their branch meetings and telling them they are transphobic.”"

Lost in Transition: Report lays bare Greens gender rift, warns of split risk

The “overwhelming majority” of submissions to a confidential Greens inquiry argued that trans activists are more harmful to the party than transphobia.

www.theage.com.au

I suspect this exemplifies both the ideological capture that's occurred across many political parties and public institutions, as well as the backlash to it. A small group of zealots have successfully distorted discussion of these issues - mostly by re-describing any dissent from the demands of trans-activists as bigotry, or hatred or whatever. A larger constituency have had enough, and are increasingly prepared to say so. Not before time.

This was an epic own goal by the Greens

They refused to provide the report to their own members. But someone leaked it to The Age where it's downloadable in full. All 89 pages.

It really is an astounding document.

It demonstrates exactly how batsh*t crazy our society has become. When a relatively mainstream party with ~10% of the vote actually writes a report like that, and what it reveals about their leadership.

 

[Cap]

So you support something you don't "have strong feelings against or for"?

Easily. You don't need strong feelings on a topic to decide what you would support.

What's best for someone that's a male is to identify as a male rather than try convince others that they're ignorant of what a male is.

What's best is for people like you to stay out of other people's lives.

 

[Gralin]

Yep, i read the article. Did you?

"The “overwhelming majority” of submissions made to the panel [by Party members] argued there was no transphobia in the party".

"The report noted that while five members of Queer Greens Victoria group expressed “distress and concern about what they perceived as transphobia in the [Australian Greens Victoria] AGV”, a further 32 submissions received from the party’s broader membership mostly argued that trans activists were bullies who were hurting the party."

I've no idea what point you're trying to make about Drag shows and anti-vaxers and Nazis etc etc, since the article didn't cover any of things. Sorry, I can't help you with any of that.

Do they say how many submissions were made vs how many members they have?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Easily. You don't need strong feelings on a topic to decide what you would support.



What's best is for people like you to stay out of other people's lives.

ShanDog said: "It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing."

So, what do we know? We know that you don't care about this "important topic," and that you don't have "strong feelings" about this "important topic"?

Let me help ya out here, do you care and have "strong feelings" for things that are "important"?

Do you "support" all cultures or just the transgender culture?



What makes you think that I'm in their lives and you're not? You're the one that supports their unimportant culture!

 

[Cap]

ShanDog said: "It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing."

So, what do we know? We know that you don't care about this "important topic," and that you don't have "strong feelings" about this "important topic"?

What on earth are you talking about.

The discussion was that people needed to have strong feelings to establish support for something.

Let me help ya out here, do you care and have "strong feelings" for things that are "important"?

I have varying degrees of feelings on various things that people may deem important or even things they don't.

Do you "support" all cultures or just the transgender culture?

Why is it a culture ? I don't support bigots,is that a culture ?

What makes you think that I'm in their lives and you're not? You're the one that supports their unimportant culture!

I don't think either of us need to be in their lives.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

What on earth are you talking about.

You.

The discussion was that people needed to have strong feelings to establish support for something.

Do you care for and have "strong feelings" for things important?

I have varying degrees of feelings on various things that people may deem important or even things they don't.

Is this important to you? You do seem to get easily offended on the transgenders behalf.

Why is it a culture? I don't support bigots, is that a culture?

Are conservatives "dumb f****"?

I don't think either of us need to be in their lives.

I know I'm not, it's the liberal/left that created the thread to put themselves in their lives lol, perhaps so the bigots can call the conservatives bigots?

 

[Chief]

the liberal/left that created the thread to put themselves in their lives lol

Weird take.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Weird take.

"Transgender is a broad term that can be used to describe people whose gender identity is different from the gender they were thought to be when they were born."

C'mon now, weird is saying later that "I thought it was boy, but wtf do I know?"

The liberal/left is weird, they'll tell you a homosexual is "born that way," and that a transgender shouldn't of been born that way?

When do we ask if these peoples are actually seen as useful idiots to the liberal/left and the less intelligent that gravitate towards them?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

"Transgender is a broad term that can be used to describe people whose gender identity is different from the gender they were thought to be when they were born."

C'mon now, weird is saying later that "I thought it was boy, but wtf do I know?"

The liberal/left is weird, they'll tell you a homosexual is "born that way," and that a transgender shouldn't of been born that way?

When do we ask if these peoples are actually seen as useful idiots to the liberal/left and the less intelligent that gravitate towards them?

This is certainly a bit strange coming from someone with multiple identities.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

This is certainly a bit strange coming from someone with multiple identities.

As strange as not caring or having "strong feelings" about something you claim to support?

Do you care and have strong feelings about the transgenders or do you just (like the liberal/left) find them useful?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

As strange as not caring or having "strong feelings" about something you claim to support?

Do you care and have strong feelings about the transgenders or do you just (like the liberal/left) find them useful?

You obviously have strong feelings. Why are you so obsessed with other peoples genitals?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

You obviously have strong feelings. Why are you so obsessed with other peoples genitals?

That coming from a person that would admit that it's unreasonable to say "it's a boy" at your child's birth

 

[Ghost Patrol]

That coming from a person that would admit that it's unreasonable to say "it's a boy" at your child's birth

You are full of shit, stop making new accounts to evade threadbans.

Your obsession with this is bizarre. Seek help.

 

[tricknologist]

the guy named after guy fawkes has shit social takes. i'm shocked.