MRP / Trib. Tribunal Thread - rules and offences discombobulation

[Scodges]

Of course other teams gang tackle. Doesn't make it right.

2 players tackling 1 player means you are automatically outnumbered somewhere else. It's poor football.

It’s allowed, nothing wrong with it.


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[Scodges]

Defending this bump on the basis that the bump is legal is like defending a dangerous sling tackle that causes a concussion on the basis that tackling is legal.

Bumping is legal when executed correctly. Bumping is not legal when executed incorrectly.

Players either roll around with the player to lessen the impact of a tackle, or just pull out.
How is a player supposed to adjust the bump ? There are so many possible outcomes which will make the bump illegal.


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[Tibbs]

i think what some of us are doing is defending the length of suspension from some of the hyperbole being thrown around, we are being programmed to settle for 5-6 weeks and i'm arguing against that, because i don't think that is fair.

No issues with that. It's those that said insist he did nothing wrong!

My personal view is this that would have been a 2-3 week suspension, and he would get a 1 game reduction with an early plea. The problem is that a] We now have the "Brayshaw effect," which adds another week, plus b] The "First test case" effect, which adds a further week until the scrutiny subsides.

So, by my reconning, he will get a 4-5 week suspension, with a 1 week reduction for a guilty plea. best case scenario he only gets a three week rest.

 

[El_Scorcho]

2. There’s little to no variation in circumstances. It’s a small strike zone , there’s very little variation in possible outcomes when a pitcher winds up.

Ever heard the expression "being thrown a curve ball"

Pitch variation is enormous and it's something a hitter has to calculate with less time than SPP had to assess the contest in front of him.

A hitter is trying to hit a small ball in a defined area away from 9 fielders. SPP just needed to slow down fractionally to avoid hitting the guy forcefully in the head.

The reaction time arguments from a few in this thread are silly. They don't stand up to any scrutiny.

 

[TeeKray]

Players either roll around with the player to lessen the impact of a tackle, or just pull out.
How is a player supposed to adjust the bump ? There are so many possible outcomes which will make the bump illegal.


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You've pretty much answered your own question. A smart player will just accept it's too risky and refrain from bumping altogether. Most players in the league have already done this.

 

[El_Scorcho]

You've pretty much answered your own question. A smart player will just accept it's too risky and refrain from bumping altogether. Most players in the league have already done this.

Players, including SPP, do this at every contest of every game. That's where they "what else could have he done" crowd completely misses the point.

SPP is powerful as hell in full flight. If he didn't intentionally stop himself he could KO half a side across 4 quarters.

 

[Scodges]

You've pretty much answered your own question. A smart player will just accept it's too risky and refrain from bumping altogether. Most players in the league have already done this.

So ban the bump, simple.


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[Ford Fairlane]

 

[El_Scorcho]

Your contention goes to the idea that Powell-Pepper was aware that Rioli's tackle would swing Keane around and increase his momentum before Rioli had even laid the tackle.

He could see Keane was spinning. He could see Rioli was about to lay a tackle. He knew he was charging into a contest where a spinning opponent was about to be tackled.

Careless.

 

[manureid]

The fact I actually don't care anymore tells you about how I see that state of this sport, the obvious inequalities, it's about who you are and who you play for, not about the action or result, and the state of Port Adelaide under the current regime. Give him no games, give him 10 games. Who fckn cares.

 

[Janus]

Ever heard the expression "being thrown a curve ball"

Pitch variation is enormous and it's something a hitter has to calculate with less time than SPP had to assess the contest in front of him.

A hitter is trying to hit a small ball in a defined area away from 9 fielders. SPP just needed to slow down fractionally to avoid hitting the guy forcefully in the head.

The reaction time arguments from a few in this thread are silly. They don't stand up to any scrutiny.

https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/72cc-1779436/Hamilton_High_School_Hitting_Cues.pdf

By extrapolation, a 100 mph fastball would be a 0.4 second reaction time. Every single resource I've found states 0.4 seconds as the reaction time to the fastest baseball pitch.

This is what happened in less than 0.4 seconds in Powell-Pepper's incident:



1 second/26 frames per second = 0.0384615384615385 seconds per frame x 10 = 0.38461... seconds.

You're actually making the point for us

 

[Festerz]

Great stuff.

And isn't it good to finally hear someone from the Board of our club who knows what they're friggin' talking about come out and give an honest informed opinion about an incident. And protect one of our honest players from the BS 'deliberate'/'thug' takes in the process.

Had to laugh when he said he had taken a look at some of the social media posts on the incident and had to check himself from calling out the idiot takes.

Wonder if that includes this thread?

 

[Grave Danger]

Has SPP told the AFL where to find Keane's body yet?

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Surely those saying 5 weeks are joking right?

Maynard would get 20 weeks by that logic, and teams would find it tough to field teams they'd have so many out.

 

[Janus]

He could see Keane was spinning. He could see Rioli was about to lay a tackle. He knew he was charging into a contest where a spinning opponent was about to be tackled.

Careless.

What if:

1. Keane slips the tackle?
2. Keane handballs to Smith instead of spinning?
3. Keane gets rid of the ball as soon as he's tackled (like he's supposed to)?

If I'm a coach, I'm telling my players to 1) play to the whistle and 2) not assume that your teammate is going to do X (tackle, in this instance) until you actually see X happen.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Great stuff.

And isn't it good to finally hear someone from the Board of our club who knows what they're friggin' talking about come out and give an honest informed opinion about an incident. And protect one of our honest players from the BS 'deliberate'/'thug' takes in the process.

Had to laugh when he said he had taken a look at some of the social media posts on the incident and had to check himself from calling out the idiot takes.

Wonder if that includes this thread?

Wait til he starts reading the replies to that tweet/X whatever they're called now. The single cell organisms from the shallow end of the gene pool have come scurrying over.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

For reference, just taking a random round 23 incident from last year, McCartin on McAdam:




Never shapes to tackle, nobody is slinging him in to McCartin, just lines him up and hits him head high. This was graded 2 weeks in round 23 last year.

If Pep's is 5 weeks, would this be 8 weeks? Players will be off for 1/3 - 1/2 a season every week for stuff like this. Is that what people are happy with?

 

[240volt]

I think it'll be 3-4. Any more than 4 and you leave yourself little room to go when there is a bump with more intent or a bump that knocks a player out cold or results in facial fractures, etc.

Powell-Pepper’s bump on Keane was assessed by match review officer Michael Christian as careless conduct, high contact and severe impact, triggering a three match-plus sanction and a direct appearance at the tribunal.

As part of the league’s desire to limit tribunal hearings in 2024, should a player be cited for a three-match ban, they can accept that sanction without going to the tribunal.

 

[philthy05]

Ever heard the expression "being thrown a curve ball"

Pitch variation is enormous and it's something a hitter has to calculate with less time than SPP had to assess the contest in front of him.

A hitter is trying to hit a small ball in a defined area away from 9 fielders. SPP just needed to slow down fractionally to avoid hitting the guy forcefully in the head.

The reaction time arguments from a few in this thread are silly. They don't stand up to any scrutiny.

You’re arguing that baseball batters whose base decision is swing / don’t swing , and have a failure rate of something like 80% completely discredits scientific evidence of human reaction times that I’ve presented.

 

[Duck Farmer]

They will make an example of him and suspend him until Hinkley wins a knock out final.

 

[Scodges]

He could see Keane was spinning. He could see Rioli was about to lay a tackle. He knew he was charging into a contest where a spinning opponent was about to be tackled.

Careless.

You really don’t like SPP do you ? I think you’d like to see a record ban.


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[EskimoPAFC]

They will make an example of him and suspend him until Hinkley wins a knock out final.

Enjoy retirement Pep thanks for your service

 

[GremioPower]

And that's about to be carved in stone:

In official changes to the tribunal process soon to be formally released via the 2024 guide, the AFL has cleared the way for a new watermark for reportable incidents like the Powell-Pepper bump that concussed Adelaide’s Mark Keane.

The fresh amendment makes clear that previous match review decisions or tribunal hearings have no bearing on new cases.

“In determining the classification of a reportable offence (and sanction in the case of any charge which is referred directly to the tribunal) the tribunal is not bound by any decision of the tribunal or MRO in a previous year and may reasonably exercise its discretion to impose a different classification and/or sanction than may have been imposed in previous years, having regard to (among other things) evolving community standards and an increased focus on reducing instances of avoidable, forceful high contact and preventing injuries (including concussions,” it reads.

Major change to tribunal guidelines allows AFL to push for heavier Powell-Pepper ban

A fresh amendment to the AFL's tribunal guidelines could put Sam Powell-Pepper on the sidelines for longer, reports Sam Edmund.

www.sen.com.au

At least, it says “previous years”. They do that in the same season.

 

[TimTime]

What is the total number of games you can be suspended over your career before being band for life??
If Pep gets 5wks as some are speculating, Maynard’s incident would have to be 12-15 wks as a minimum - if the AFL were consistent.
If the AFL were really serious about protecting the head they should start sanctioning players who lead with their head for free kicks, over weekend watching various highlights there were at least 4 instances where a player with the ball either moved forward or turned into an opposition player to draw a free kick.
And finally, if you want to change players attitude to protecting the head - any significant contact with the head should result in a 1-2 game sanction. The number of times you see a player get hit in the head but not be concussed, start punishing the action not the result.
I know this will trigger most people, it triggers me - but the game we grew up loving for the “physicality” is no more, it is still has physical aspects just not the level we grew up with. And the AFL is in damage control trying to convince the world that they really care about player welfare..

 

[TeeKray]

Powell-Pepper’s bump on Keane was assessed by match review officer Michael Christian as careless conduct, high contact and severe impact, triggering a three match-plus sanction and a direct appearance at the tribunal.

As part of the league’s desire to limit tribunal hearings in 2024, should a player be cited for a three-match ban, they can accept that sanction without going to the tribunal.

What's your point?

This isn't a 3 match suspension in prospect, it's a 3 match plus suspension in prospect (there is a difference) meaning he has to face the tribunal.

We will probably argue for 3 weeks and the AFL will probably argue for 4 weeks.