Turnbull govt launches its PaTH to serfdom with forced unpaid internships for young people

[Dry Rot]

The level of exploitative unpaid internships is already appalling, and now the Turnbull govt has joined in, without the legislation being even passed.

I'm sure businesses won't exploit this program...

The Coalition launched its internship program this week, despite widespread criticism and lack of Senate support from the ALP and Greens. The program, which was announced in the government's 2016 budget, has the neat and tidy acronym, PaTH – Prepare, Trial and Hire. As the name suggests, the government's intention was to establish a program for young and unemployed Australians to gain valuable work experience in an internship, preparing them for full-time employment. For their trouble of undertaking 300 hours of unpaid work (25 hours a week for 12 weeks), the intern would receive an extra $200 per fortnight on top of their unemployment allowance to cover expenses like travel. That's $4 per hour for the intern – $13.70 less than the national minimum wage....

In reality, unpaid internships are one of the worst forms of exploitation still legal and actively encouraged in Australia. Without any appropriate regulations or supervisions in place, many businesses continue to abuse the unpaid labour of young people, often using an intern to complete various menial tasks under the guise of teaching valuable workplace skills. Or, perhaps worse, to do work they would otherwise pay an employee to do. Without any governing body specifically dealing with internship exploitation, young people are rarely aware of their rights in the workplace and don't know who to turn to when the internship does not progress as expected...

But after more than 500 hours of unpaid interning, I have still not found full-time employment. Despite the vast amount of experience I have attained in these internships, and the amount of time I have willingly worked for free, I have still not managed to find employment in the five months since graduating from university. A report released by the Department of Employment in late 2016 reveals my experience is by no means unique. According to the report, more than half of Australians complete unpaid work. Of those surveyed, fewer than 30 per cent were offered employment by the business following the unpaid work completed.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/what-...re-than-500-unpaid-hours-20170404-gvdf9t.html

 

[Gough]

The pay off is Scott Morrison seems to think that business should do the government's job, and sell the tax cuts.

 

[nut]

Awesome ... the race to the bottom almost finished

 

[cannot]

 

[Pie eyed]

The pay off is Scott Morrison seems to think that business should do the government's job, and sell the tax cuts.

Morrison should go and eat a dick.
Massive waste of oxygen.

 

[Fire]

My old place of employment took on interns intermittently. We did so more to help the local education industry than to get cheap labour; any position which actually needs skills takes far more resources to train qn intern than the money you save on cheaper labour.

So it CAN be a good incentive for companies to help develop local talent, and create a pathway for propper employmemt which may not have otherwise existed for the student.

However its far too easy to exploit without strong regilation and oversight. Any company giving menial (unskilled) tasks to an intern really has no buisiness taking on interns in the first place. Its blatant exploitation and should not be legal. Not only are they stealing money off the interns by lying and misleading them (I see no reason why wage theft shpuld not carry jail time just like any other form of theft), it hurts the wider economy by denying someone else a paid position.

Which is what this is all about.

 

[Ratts of Tobruk]

This isn't quite the right thread for this, but I can't be bothered looking back and finding the right one. Soz it's late.

Seventeen services were introduced or given a funding boost in the South Australian town of Ceduna at the same time the cashless welfare card was introduced, raising questions about the success of the card...
These include $522,000 over two years for social and emotional wellbeing counselling, $500,000 for drug and alcohol support workers (part of the A Better Life program), and $277,630 for financial counselling.

So in order for the Coalition to make their welfare card look like it is working, they introduced a bunch of other programmes. Of course it's great to give communities every chance to improve, but you have to query whether the introduction of new services and funding increases would happen wherever the card was put in. Most likely not. Otherwise they have lost the opportunity to truly test the impact of the card, independent of other programmes.

They could try a similar trick to suggest that PaTH is working well when initially put out, and later on be far more hands-off.

My old place of employment took on interns intermittently. We did so more to help the local education industry than to get cheap labour; any position which actually needs skills takes far more resources to train qn intern than the money you save on cheaper labour.

So it CAN be a good incentive for companies to help develop local talent, and create a pathway for propper employmemt which may not have otherwise existed for the student.

However its far too easy to exploit without strong regilation and oversight. Any company giving menial (unskilled) tasks to an intern really has no buisiness taking on interns in the first place. Its blatant exploitation and should not be legal. Not only are they stealing money off the interns by lying and misleading them (I see no reason why wage theft shpuld not carry jail time just like any other form of theft), it hurts the wider economy by denying someone else a paid position.

Which is what this is all about.

I think to a fair chunk of the supporter base the Libs have they would think even menial labour would be good to teach people a work ethic. I suspect they won't monitor it heavily. Paid work can be menial after all. A few chats over lunch where the intern gets to ask about the industry or possible future roles... pretty easy to say that they didn't show initiative or interest and so weren't a good fit for the business going forward.

 

[Power Raid]

Perhaps companies should pay 30% tax and reduced to 25% (or 35% down to 30%) where bona fide training is provided. This would make more sense than not paying people or reducing company tax "just because".

 

[Pie eyed]

Now Morrison is attempting to steal money from future generations to line the pockets of his business masters by allowing them to suck the base funds from under employees, now shaky super nest egg.
They will steal the first years of a whole generations savings off them now and then rip off what they have scrimped together after to retire on in tax, rate and price hikes later, simultaneously increasing the value of their own investment properties.
campaigners like Turnbull with 11 investment properties, negatively geared should have no say in any policy relevant to the area.
Low form of one celled life these Libs.

 

[Broar]

Still find this rather farcical. Nearly choked on my smashed avo on toast several months back when the example of working an internship at a local cafe was given.

I don't see the long term benefits in getting a young person to wash a few dishes or make coffees, etc. Why on earth do we need interns for your low skilled/casualised jobs? We need these businesses actually hiring real workers paying actual wages, not some scheme where the business doesn't contribute to the wages and actually gets paid for putting on someone to work for free. Madness!

Tax cuts, penalty rates & now getting paid to put on free labour, a few businesses would be licking their lips.

 

[Broar]

The Government has teamed up with the Australian Retailers Association to deliver 10,000 internships! So that's 10,000 potential jobs now off the market.

 

[Adz]

Who would intern in retail?

 

[the PILL]

The Government has teamed up with the Australian Retailers Association to deliver 10,000 internships! So that's 10,000 potential jobs now off the market.

Yes and on the flip side they will probably pad up the unemployment graphs with people gaining employment too as a little vote promo down the line...

 

[the PILL]

Who would intern in retail?

Huh...There is quite a lot structure in retail, especially big business, ie. Complex managers, Operarions managers, Human resource, logististics and secretarial...

 

[Power Raid]

We need programs like this but not for cafes or low paid jobs.

This should be reserved for a buddy system for expensive skilled labour especially where the skill was imported. Or for government jobs including councils.

F our politicians are dumb.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

F our Liberal government is dumb.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Power Raid]

Who would intern in retail?

people who aren't worth the minimum wage.

I would much prefer a broadened nation service. By broadened I mean beyond military to include public transport and parks security and cleaning similar to what is done in Singapore.

Mobilising youth to get into work is super important to break the unemployment cycle, especially where there is a generational issue. I still scratch my head why retail though. I would much prefer a strategic long term benefit of building new industry, providing services that aren't already met (helping the aged or disabled) and public/ community services.

 

[Power Raid]

The Government has teamed up with the Australian Retailers Association to deliver 10,000 internships! So that's 10,000 potential jobs now off the market.

The only logical thing to explain this is retail as we once knew it is dead, as people shop on line. Rather than taking a sensible policy review, the government and retailers association have decided lowering wages will allow them to compete.

Perhaps the biggest cost is not wages but retail space. If that is the case, perhaps policy should be focused on reducing retail space. This would mean an attack on the unions and an attack on the rich which, despite being the right way, is political suicide.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Perhaps companies should pay 30% tax and reduced to 25% (or 35% down to 30%) where bona fide training is provided. This would make more sense than not paying people or reducing company tax "just because".

Who are you and what have you done with Power Raid?

 

[Dry Rot]

The Government has teamed up with the Australian Retailers Association to deliver 10,000 internships! So that's 10,000 potential jobs now off the market.

Next week's headline:

AMAZON ANNOUNCES 10,000 INTERNSHIPS ACROSS ITS SOON TO BE OPENED AUSTRALIAN OPERATIONS

 

[Power Raid]

Who are you and what have you done with Power Raid?

I've always been pro the youth, poor and disadvantaged which is an uphill battle with the uneven global playing field. Sadly though, any attempt to help the youth, disadvantaged and poor is usually shut down by that same group.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I've always been pro the youth, poor and disadvantaged which is an uphill battle with the uneven global playing field. Sadly though, any attempt to help the youth, disadvantaged and poor is usually shut down by that same group.

I was more pointing to you thinking that the companies should pay more tax.

 

[Power Raid]

I was more pointing to you thinking that the companies should pay more tax.

yep

I've been against lowering company taxes as it doesn't matter whether company taxes are 10% or 60%. As we have a franking credit system, meaning you get the difference between your personal tax and the company tax back anyway.

At the same time, the higher the company tax rate, the higher the tax we collect off foreign investors. This is important otherwise foreign investors have a better financial return on our businesses than a local investor, meaning our businesses are susceptible to foreign ownership over local ownership.......as we have seen.


Further, I am pro increasing GST as this is the ONLY way to collect tax off foreign businesses like Apple, microsoft, ford, general motors etc etc. As they operate in low tax or no tax jurisdictions and thus avoid income taxes through transfer pricing. Consumption taxes even up the playing field. Note: the additional tax collected must go to those most in need.


If we were smart we would set GST at 15-20%, this means we collect 20% of foreign businesses revenues in Oz through a consumption tax. At the same time we should get rid of payroll taxes and allow a certain component of wages to be offset against GST (as if GST was charged even though it wasn't). This means the tax arbitrage between Australia and overseas is less and there would be a reward for creating jobs and paying wages.


unfortunately the poor, disadvantaged and youth would fear the tax burden, when in fact they should embrace it as it stops transfer pricing, promotes jobs in Australia and the revenue collected should go to those who need it the most.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

An unpaid internship should not be productive for the entity providing the opportunity. The simple test to determine this is:
-Am I doing work which will not be used to benefit the business?
-Am I being constantly supervised by a person who is otherwise not doing anything else to benefit the business?

If the answer to both of those is no, then the internship is illegal.

Big business is not the major problem when it comes to unpaid internships, as breaches of work place law are more likely to be detected by outsiders and reported by other employees. The major problem are smaller firms where less notice is paid.

Unfortunately, a majority of students and young adults who engage in illegal internships don't dob in the employer, as they feel the resultant reaction from the business will defeat the purpose of working the internship in the first place; getting a good reference. This silence keeps the cycle repeating, and usually ensures that only the most wealthy students are able to earn experience, essentially by paying for it.

Unpaid internships/trials do have a place, but they must be treated properly. In order to start policing this, students need to start dobbing dodgy hirers in. I'm not sure how else we are supposed to stop illegal workplace arrangements if the victims are not the ones to report these and allow the crimes (and yes, they are crimes) to go undetected.

 

[Power Raid]

An unpaid internship should not be productive for the entity providing the opportunity. The simple test to determine this is:
-Am I doing work which will not be used to benefit the business?
-Am I being constantly supervised by a person who is otherwise not doing anything else to benefit the business?

If the answer to both of those is no, then the internship is illegal.

Big business is not the major problem when it comes to unpaid internships, as breaches of work place law are more likely to be detected by outsiders and reported by other employees. The major problem are smaller firms where less notice is paid.

Unfortunately, a majority of students and young adults who engage in illegal internships don't dob in the employer, as they feel the resultant reaction from the business will defeat the purpose of working the internship in the first place; getting a good reference. This silence keeps the cycle repeating, and usually ensures that only the most wealthy students are able to earn experience, essentially by paying for it.

Unpaid internships/trials do have a place, but they must be treated properly. In order to start policing this, students need to start dobbing dodgy hirers in. I'm not sure how else we are supposed to stop illegal workplace arrangements if the victims are not the ones to report these and allow the crimes (and yes, they are crimes) to go undetected.

it's a real dilemma.

Having people paid to sit down shut up, rot in the outer suburbs and told they have no place in society is a recipe for disaster. Thus programs that promote participation are extremely important.

This program proposed by Turnbull is a god idea but I fear this program in execution is a disaster.

I can see some dodgy 7/11 store have "interns" behind the counter. This is the next pink bats program waiting to happen.