MMA-UFC UFC 284 - Makhachev v Volkanovski

[mouncey2franklin]

I'm with Nate, they're all on something.

And like RobbyRoy I don't care, I would do the same if it were my career, either you play ball or you fall behind.

It is no different in the AFL but a lot of folks want to keep their heads buried in the sand so it isn't worth even mentioning most of the time.

It is silly because most fans would want to know that their players are training hard for that 'extra 1%' but don't realise the uncatchable (or rarely caught) substances give benefits much bigger than 1%.

 

[Topkent]

I'm with Nate, they're all on something.

And like RobbyRoy I don't care, I would do the same if it were my career, either you play ball or you fall behind.

It is no different in the AFL but a lot of folks want to keep their heads buried in the sand so it isn't worth even mentioning most of the time.

It is silly because most fans would want to know that their players are training hard for that 'extra 1%' but don't realise the uncatchable (or rarely caught) substances give benefits much bigger than 1%.

Lol wut. If they're all on something in the AFL how come draftees can come in an tear up the league.

 

[the_interloper]

You've picked three interesting examples. Jiri is the most tested fighter in the UFC, Izzy has horrendous gyno and Weili is built like a brick shithouse.

I'm in the "they're all on something" group, and to some extent, I don't really care. If absolutely everything was able to be completely stamped out then great, let's do that. But there are so many loopholes and ways to get even the most minor of advantages, and no one wants to fall behind.

I don't care either, the risk is on the fighters if they're fighting juicers, I feel like they all basically know what everyone is doing anyway. This is not perfect of course but the way it is.

Also worth pointing out that you can't just use the eye test to consider if someone is juicing, Josh Barnett pissed hot more times than I've had a hot dinner and he had a sloppy rig.

 

[phantom13]

Im absolutely in the "theyre all doing something" camp and this was discussed elsewhere (i cant recall where though but the_interloper was there).

AFL is too rounded as a sport for there to be the widespread doping you expect in MMA, Athletics, Gymnastics etc. Im sure there is doping but the gains from doing most of the known drugs generally dont benefit the all round fitness required for AFL. If someone is rehabbing an injury or whatveer it makes sense they would but outside that i doubt its as widespread as we think. I dont say this because of some heraldry about AFL (Soccer feels similar to me) and i wouldnt be shocked to find out it is as widespread as some think, i also wouldnt really care (my first response when Essendon got done for the peptides was "why the **** werent the saints doing that shit too") i just dont think its as simple as EPO-Endurance, Steroids-Strength and Power in the AFL (and yes thats a massive oversimplification of it).

 

[the_interloper]

Im absolutely in the "theyre all doing something" camp and this was discussed elsewhere (i cant recall where though but the_interloper was there).

AFL is too rounded as a sport for there to be the widespread doping you expect in MMA, Athletics, Gymnastics etc. Im sure there is doping but the gains from doing most of the known drugs generally dont benefit the all round fitness required for AFL. If someone is rehabbing an injury or whatveer it makes sense they would but outside that i doubt its as widespread as we think. I dont say this because of some heraldry about AFL (Soccer feels similar to me) and i wouldnt be shocked to find out it is as widespread as some think, i also wouldnt really care (my first response when Essendon got done for the peptides was "why the * werent the saints doing that s**t too") i just dont think its as simple as EPO-Endurance, Steroids-Strength and Power in the AFL (and yes thats a massive oversimplification of it).

The one thing we didn't really hear about after the Essendon drugs saga was what other clubs are doing, the silence was deafening. I'd think after that there's no club programs for "supplements" but players probably seek their own assistance, sort of like what Nathan Bock did. Don't think a club would be willing to take that responsibility on, it's probably a "don't ask don't tell" policy for what individuals do.

Of course being an MMA fan might colour my views on PEDs and their widespread usage.

 

[phantom13]

The one thing we didn't really hear about after the Essendon drugs saga was what other clubs are doing, the silence was deafening. I'd think after that there's no club programs for "supplements" but players probably seek their own assistance, sort of like what Nathan Bock did. Don't think a club would be willing to take that responsibility on, it's probably a "don't ask don't tell" policy for what individuals do.

Of course being an MMA fan might colour my views on PEDs and their widespread usage.

It would 100% have to be an inidividual thing (maybe with a nudge in the right direction from the doctor during an injury rehab) but i still think its high risk for small reward at AFL level. If there was a catch all drug that could help you in all areas (which there might be, im not a chemist) i could see it being rife.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The one thing we didn't really hear about after the Essendon drugs saga was what other clubs are doing, the silence was deafening. I'd think after that there's no club programs for "supplements" but players probably seek their own assistance, sort of like what Nathan Bock did. Don't think a club would be willing to take that responsibility on, it's probably a "don't ask don't tell" policy for what individuals do.

Of course being an MMA fan might colour my views on PEDs and their widespread usage.

In one of the books about the saga it said 3 Essendon players were found with high range TB4 in their blood after targetted testing but there were an additional18 players found have similar elevated levels across the comp. Wonder what the threshold is to constitute a ban.

 

[phantom13]

In one of the books about the saga it said 3 Essendon players were found with high range TB4 in their blood after targetted testing but there were an additional18 players found have similar elevated levels across the comp. Wonder what the threshold is to constitute a ban.

This would end up being like the test and red blood cell counts in MMA and Cycling.

Whatever the treshold was everyone in MMA for a while was right on the upper limit of acceptable, same as the red blood count (from blood doping).

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Lol wut. If they're all on something in the AFL how come draftees can come in an tear up the league.

You think kids in the TAC Cup aren't on the gear as well?

This is what I was talking about, most people have their heads in the sand, and they're quite happy that way, so there's no point even bothering to bring this stuff up.

 

[Topkent]

You think kids in the TAC Cup aren't on the gear as well?

This is what I was talking about, most people have their heads in the sand, and they're quite happy that way, so there's no point even bothering to bring this stuff up.

Are you kidding me lol. Kids running around at south Gippsland are all on the gear? Haha

 

[phantom13]

I played TAC (Its NAB league now FWIW) albeit 20 years ago and can assure you that next to none of us were on the gear, we also got drug tested.

Truthfully we wouldnt have had the means to do it and not get caught.

 

[Topkent]

Who the **** would be paying for the TAC doping program? They have like 50 man squads and what 10 teams? I don't know how much gear is but I'm guessing it's a few hundred a month for something worthwhile. So then there's hundreds of thousands of dollars being spend on doping for kids?

 

[phantom13]

Who the * would be paying for the TAC doping program? They have like 50 man squads and what 10 teams? I don't know how much gear is but I'm guessing it's a few hundred a month for something worthwhile. So then there's hundreds of thousands of dollars being spend on doping for kids?

I think the suggestion is that the players themselves would be funding their own regime.

I suppose some very driven mum and dads might be willing to do it but even at the club i was at (which had alot of rich mums and dads) i couldnt imagine it happening and certainly saw none of the tell tale signs (barring one dude who was doing it more for his rowing which he eventually got a scholarship for).

It presents really obviously in teens from my experience and yeh... i didnt see it

 

[00Stinger]

I played TAC (Its NAB league now FWIW) albeit 20 years ago and can assure you that next to none of us were on the gear, we also got drug tested.

Truthfully we wouldnt have had the means to do it and not get caught.

I can back this up but make that 23-25 years ago

 

[Topkent]

I think the suggestion is that the players themselves would be funding their own regime.

I suppose some very driven mum and dads might be willing to do it but even at the club i was at (which had alot of rich mums and dads) i couldnt imagine it happening and certainly saw none of the tell tale signs (barring one dude who was doing it more for his rowing which he eventually got a scholarship for).

It presents really obviously in teens from my experience and yeh... i didnt see it

Mate yeah there's no doubt a handful who could do it, but old mate is suggesting it's a program basically and competition wide which is just bonkers.

 

[phantom13]

Mate yeah there's no doubt a handful who could do it, but old mate is suggesting it's a program basically and competition wide which is just bonkers.

I dont think either option is true FWIW.

I was actually (weirdly) unlucky enough to play for two TAC cup clubs (i moved house and got moved into a new teams zone) so knew most of the boys at one club and then knew all the boys at my new club and of the... 120ish from those two clubs i can very comfortably say one was definitely doping (as mentioned not for footy but rowing and he barely made the 22 anyway) and i would be stunned to find out any others did.

Program or individual it would be rare as rocking horse shit.

 

[Crimson Azure]

I miss the discussion about Volk and Islam bro hugging, I've never seen it before.

Has anyone else?

 

[phantom13]

Me and the_interloper will bro hug every round for 30 seconds when we eventually fight

 

[mouncey2franklin]

I played TAC (Its NAB league now FWIW) albeit 20 years ago and can assure you that next to none of us were on the gear, we also got drug tested.

Truthfully we wouldnt have had the means to do it and not get caught.

How can you assure me that?

Were you testing your teammates yourself?

 

[the_interloper]

Me and the_interloper will bro hug every round for 30 seconds when we eventually fight

May not make it to the first hug!

 

[phantom13]

How can you assure me that?

Were you testing your teammates yourself?

I was there when many of them were tested and saw their results, that’s pretty ****ing close.

Pretty sure you’ve got your opinion (being that a stack of 15-18 year olds are doping) and no data could prove otherwise so it’s a moot convo to have with you.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

I was there when many of them were tested and saw their results, that’s pretty ******* close.

Simple question: do you think it is hard to pass those tests while still doping?

 

[phantom13]

Simple question: do you think it is hard to pass those tests while still doping?

For a teenager with limited resources yes, it would be extremely hard.

There’s a reason I’m saying elite athletes with money, resources and access to very good doctors and pharmacists would almost all be doing something and at the same time saying that teenagers playing in an amatuer competition for no money and still going to school 5 days a week wouldn’t be.

It’s not that complex an idea to grasp

 

[00Stinger]

 

[Topkent]

Eugene bareman said that while they don't exactly have proof that's solid, they know some things that make them very sure it happened.