Unfair concessions?

[RealSlimShady]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/sport/afl/story/0,26547,24291948-5016212,00.html

"Gold Coast will have picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15, and then take top spot in each subsequent round.

That means the bottom team in 2010 will have pick No. 4, with that year's premier having to wait until selection 25 for its first pick.

Gold Coast also will have access to a maximum of one out-of-contract player from each of the existing clubs after the 2010 season.

That's on top of a selection of up to 20 of the best under-18 prospects in Queensland during the next two years, three of whom have already been claimed."

Personally I think this is way over the top. It is going to create one hell of a super-team in the years to follow and leave the rest of the competition at a huge disadvantage. I hope I am wrong.

What concessions did the crows and power have coming into the AFL?

 

[Bacon8]

Both teams had unlimited access to the SANFL before the draft. We could take the best young talent from the SANFL.

I'm pretty sure if Wazza went in the draft, he'd have been a high pick.

The QAFL isn't as good, so they need some help. They are gonna trade half of these picks, I'm sure.. Probably 1 & 5 for Riewoldt!

 

[WALL-e]

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/sport/afl/story/0,26547,24291948-5016212,00.html

"Gold Coast will have picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15, and then take top spot in each subsequent round.

That means the bottom team in 2010 will have pick No. 4, with that year's premier having to wait until selection 25 for its first pick.

Gold Coast also will have access to a maximum of one out-of-contract player from each of the existing clubs after the 2010 season.

That's on top of a selection of up to 20 of the best under-18 prospects in Queensland during the next two years, three of whom have already been claimed."

Personally I think this is way over the top. It is going to create one hell of a super-team in the years to follow and leave the rest of the competition at a huge disadvantage. I hope I am wrong.

What concessions did the crows and power have coming into the AFL?

They are getting so many concessions because the AFL wants them to succeed so badly.

The AFL doesn't want a situation where they go into a rugby market and enter a failing team that takes 10 years to do anything of substance.

It is a little unfair to teams like Melbourne and Freo, who would have needed the draft as much as GC17 in the coming years.

As someone said a trade could happen.

Having a veteran star would help a lot.

Imagine if Riewoldt comes out of contract in the year GC17 become a team and have first access to uncontracted players.....

They wouldn't have to pay anything for him, asuming he wanted to come.

Now that could be the real hurt on teams.

Yeah as for the crows, as was said we had zoning access to the SANFL.

 

[Alex99]

9 of the first 15 draft picks is ok because they have to be competitive and since they don’t have an establish league to develop player, the draft is the only logical way to help them. To be competitive from day one they will have to trade 5 or 6 of the first 10 picks so they can have some experienced senior player or the kids will not develop.

I assume they will have a playing list of 42 (plus 6 or 8 rookies), if they go in with 30 – 35 teenagers they will get smashed week in week out and the high draft picks will not develop or get home sick real quick and leave. It’s the same as the Brisbane lions (or bears back then), until they started picking up more senior player in the PSD like Alistair Lynch, Gilbert Macadam, Craig Lambert, Andrew Bews ect, ect the young talented kids they had on the list didn’t really start to develop.

The new Gold Coast side can pick up one uncontracted player from each club, but i doubt that will pick up many superstar, only duds who need that second or third opportunity. They may pick up a Nick Riewoldt or a Kurt Tippett or Ricky Pettard but as clubs know they are coming in, they will have them locked away with good deals or agree to let them go via a trade only opportunity.

In the end of the day everything will balance itself out.

 

[WALL-e]

9 of the first 15 draft picks is ok because they have to be competitive and since they don’t have an establish league to develop player, the draft is the only logical way to help them. To be competitive from day one they will have to trade 5 or 6 of the first 10 picks so they can have some experienced senior player or the kids will not develop.

I assume they will have a playing list of 42 (plus 6 or 8 rookies), if they go in with 30 – 35 teenagers they will get smashed week in week out and the high draft picks will not develop or get home sick real quick and leave. It’s the same as the Brisbane lions (or bears back then), until they started picking up more senior player in the PSD like Alistair Lynch, Gilbert Macadam, Craig Lambert, Andrew Bews ect, ect the young talented kids they had on the list didn’t really start to develop.

The new Gold Coast side can pick up one uncontracted player from each club, but i doubt that will pick up many superstar, only duds who need that second or third opportunity. They may pick up a Nick Riewoldt or a Kurt Tippett or Ricky Pettard but as clubs know they are coming in, they will have them locked away with good deals or agree to let them go via a trade only opportunity.

In the end of the day everything will balance itself out.

Wash your mouth out!

 

[ruscy002]

They are getting so many concessions because the AFL wants them to succeed so badly.

The AFL doesn't want a situation where they go into a rugby market and enter a failing team that takes 10 years to do anything of substance.

It is a little unfair to teams like Melbourne and Freo, who would have needed the draft as much as GC17 in the coming years.

As someone said a trade could happen.

Having a veteran star would help a lot.

Imagine if Riewoldt comes out of contract in the year GC17 become a team and have first access to uncontracted players.....

They wouldn't have to pay anything for him, asuming he wanted to come.

Now that could be the real hurt on teams.

Yeah as for the crows, as was said we had zoning access to the SANFL.

Yeah, talking about the current expansion and Adelaide’s entry in 1990 is like comparing apples and oranges. The AFL were much more concerned with taking our $4 million licence fee (think that’s what it was) than dishing out concessions. The standard of SANFL footy was relatively high compared to the AFL at the time, meaning that creation from of zone picks wasn’t a huge issue.

GC17 couldn’t form a team from the local league, it just isn’t strong enough compared to the AFL comp. Also, with their picks in year prior to entry, I believe they will actually be forced to trade a certain number of them, which is their chance to pick up more experienced players not accessible due to contracts.

There’s no proven model for team entry, and the chances that this team will become a super team are equal to the chances that they’ll suck for many years. It’s a dicey game and the AFL are right to go overboard in trying to make this work.

 

[magtrev]

Perfectly reasonable consessions. They will trade some of the picks away for a star or two.

 

[ruscy002]

Having said that, I also believe that the Gold Coast should’ve been the final frontier after West Sydney and Tasmania, who both have better facilities to rely upon and a higher chance of attaining and maintaining a supporter base.

 

[Asgardian]

The new Gold Coast side can pick up one uncontracted player from each club, but i doubt that will pick up many superstar, only duds who need that second or third opportunity. They may pick up a Nick Riewoldt or a Kurt Tippett or Ricky Pettard but as clubs know they are coming in, they will have them locked away with good deals or agree to let them go via a trade only opportunity.

The player agents know what is happening, they will not let their clients be "locked away" so they can explore possible monetary windfalls from the new team. That is unless the player wants to be "locked away".

 

[KUNG FU]

Gee, there are plenty of other threads on this. Go read one of them.

Very reasonable concessions. A significant number of those picks will be traded. GC will need some experienced players. The only clubs it really hurts are the cellar dwellers.

 

[IddyBiddy]

Imagine if Riewoldt comes out of contract in the year GC17 become a team and have first access to uncontracted players.....

They wouldn't have to pay anything for him, asuming he wanted to come.

Now that could be the real hurt on teams.

Even teams that lose uncontracted players will receive compensation. What form it takes has yet to be agreed.

 

[macca23]

Gee, there are plenty of other threads on this. Go read one of them.

Very reasonable concessions. A significant number of those picks will be traded. GC will need some experienced players. The only clubs it really hurts are the cellar dwellers.

That's the thought that went through my mind whe I read that.

IMO it could condemn a couple of the really struggling Victorian teams to permanent mediocrity and ultimately, extinction.

Not that I would give a flying f.... about that.

 

[KUNG FU]

Compensation for uncontracted players will most likely be deemed by the AFL in terms of draft picks that may be used in any year, so you may choose to hold off for a stronger draft. And even then, there will be a limit to the amount of players available.

That's the thought that went through my mind whe I read that.

IMO it could condemn a couple of the really struggling Victorian teams to permanent mediocrity and ultimately, extinction.

Not that I would give a flying f.... about that.

Yeah, but at the same time, none of this is a precise science. Even Melbourne, Essendon, Freo & WCE have the ability to pull themselves out of the slump.

 

[DJ75]

I think if you look at it rationally it is was it required for the new team to have any chance of being competitive in the near future.
It will def hurt those guys that need to rebuild now.
From a Crows perspective, I think we got in early and started our rebuild last year. The decision on Torney in particular looked a bit rough at the start, but if you look ahead it actually made sense.
Essentially we got in a year ahead of most other teams who are madly panicking to dump experienced players this year in order to stock up on draft picks.
We stocked up last year and as part of that selected some bottom agers that were surprise selections, but had they been in this years draft would have gone earlier.
For one, I am really pleased with the way we have planned this. I wouldn't be surprised to see us pick up an experienced player in the PSD that will really boost our team either this year or next.

 

[Macca19]

I guess we'll see what happens, but I dont think either our clubs can complain about it.

 

[Vader]

A couple of things...

What happens to team(s) who earn a priority pick ahead of the first round of the draft? Would these be picks 4, 6, 8 overall, or would they get pick #1 ahead of the GC concession picks?

Secondly, I'm expecting 2010 to be one of Adelaide's worst seasons - the darkness before the dawn. This means that we WILL be affected by these concessions, losing access to the high top-10 draft picks in the one year we actually qualify for them.

It is likely that the last of our veterans will be retired - though the club are clearly banking on Burton playing on to 2010 given that they offered him a contract for 2009. The backbone group of Massie, Shirley & Doughty will also have been moved on, leaving Stevens & Gill as the oldest players on our list. Johncock & Thompson will be our most experienced players, with around 180 games each.

The most experienced of our players drafted under Craig is VB, who will be the Captain of the side with around 120 games of experience. It takes around 100 games before most kids become genuine stars and Porps & Knights will be approaching this mark at the end of the season, with Douglas, Mackay, Dangermouse, Otten & co well behind.

The real problem will be our forward line. Tippett, Walker and (hopefully) Sellar will all be gaining experience, with Tippett being around the 60 game mark and the latter pair around 30-40. They will be the core of our forward line for the next decade, but in 2010 they will still be very much learning their trade.

I'm not suggesting we'll crash to earth like Port did this year - the concessions ensure that there is no motivation to do so and it is clearly against Adelaide's club culture as well. Even so, we'll be fielding a very young and inexperienced team that year. From 2011 though, things definitely begin to look up.

 

[WALL-e]

A couple of things...

What happens to team(s) who earn a priority pick ahead of the first round of the draft? Would these be picks 4, 6, 8 overall, or would they get pick #1 ahead of the GC concession picks?

Secondly, I'm expecting 2010 to be one of Adelaide's worst seasons - the darkness before the dawn. This means that we WILL be affected by these concessions, losing access to the high top-10 draft picks in the one year we actually qualify for them.

It is likely that the last of our veterans will be retired - though the club are clearly banking on Burton playing on to 2010 given that they offered him a contract for 2009. The backbone group of Massie, Shirley & Doughty will also have been moved on, leaving Stevens & Gill as the oldest players on our list. Johncock & Thompson will be our most experienced players, with around 180 games each.

The most experienced of our players drafted under Craig is VB, who will be the Captain of the side with around 120 games of experience. It takes around 100 games before most kids become genuine stars and Porps & Knights will be approaching this mark at the end of the season, with Douglas, Mackay, Dangermouse, Otten & co well behind.

The real problem will be our forward line. Tippett, Walker and (hopefully) Sellar will all be gaining experience, with Tippett being around the 60 game mark and the latter pair around 30-40. They will be the core of our forward line for the next decade, but in 2010 they will still be very much learning their trade.

I'm not suggesting we'll crash to earth like Port did this year - the concessions ensure that there is no motivation to do so and it is clearly against Adelaide's club culture as well. Even so, we'll be fielding a very young and inexperienced team that year. From 2011 though, things definitely begin to look up.

I believe (if the priority picks are still around) that the PP will occur before pick 1 as per usual.

I think next year will be the dark before the dawn....or hope.

You don't want to be relying on draft picks in 2010-2015

 

[Vader]

I believe (if the priority picks are still around) that the PP will occur before pick 1 as per usual.

I think next year will be the dark before the dawn....or hope.

You don't want to be relying on draft picks in 2010-2015

Based on 2008, I think we'll continue to make the finals in 2009 before dropping out in 2010.

Next year I expect us to have a solid core of experienced players - McLeod, at least one of Goodwin & Edwards and probably two of our three backboners.
I expect improvement from Tippett, with a full season under his belt plus another pre-season as well.

If you have a look at the projected departures, Bassett is the only one who is a consistent member of our current 22. Most of the remainder are either fringe players (Campbell, Jericho, McGregor), players who missed the entire year (Biglands) or players who haven't made it (Gallman). 2009 will see us lose depth, but probably not much change to our best 22 overall.

That said, if the club truly are "aggressive" with their list management, pulling more than one or two Torney/Bode/Hart delistings, then 2009 may be darker than expected.

2010 is when the defecation collides with the rotary oscillator, when we lose a lot of experience and players who are currently in our best 22. To a certain extent their places will be taken by players stepping up (eg. VB stepping up to replace Goodwin, Mackay stepping up to replace VB, Cook stepping up to replace Mackay), but nothing can replace the 1500 odd games of experience that group represent.

I think the club did well to start the cleanout last year, going deep in a draft where everyone else went shallow. All signs so far would indicate that 6 of our 7 draftees, plus at least one rookie, will make the grade. This means that while we may be down the lower end of the ladder in 2010, we won't be rebuilding from scratch in those year. We'll be more like West Coast this year - down because they have a young & inexperienced group, not because they have an old group in need of a broom.

 

[crowsup]

I think that all the clubs that believe they have to bottom out to become successful, will be less successful than ever.
Because, after all, relying on priority picks is the same as relying on hope and chance. It is also a lazy attitude and an excuse for clubs that have little capabilities of developing their list.

 

[hippyhippy]

so we can expect another year of tanking from Port. Melbourne on the other hand will just keep playing badly.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

I think that all the clubs that believe they have to bottom out to become successful, will be less successful than ever.
Because, after all, relying on priority picks is the same as relying on hope and chance. It is also a lazy attitude and an excuse for clubs that have little capabilities of developing their list.

Nail. Hammer. Head. These concessions are going to affect Victorian clubs a lot more than interstate teams.

 

[James23]

I think its less of a case of where u finish, but more of a case of how good your talent scouts are.

For example, last year we finished 8th and had pick 10 in the draft. However if we had finished 14th with pick 3, we still would have drafted Dangerfield (if we are to believe Matt Rendell).

Although it is rotten luch that its looking like the 1 and only year we may bottom out, we may receive pick 14 instead of pick 4.

 

[jo172]

On the positive at least we know that year will bring no tanking!

 

[Coopers]

Bah!

Bring on the draft lottery I say.

 

[crowsup]

I think its less of a case of where u finish, but more of a case of how good your talent scouts are.

For example, last year we finished 8th and had pick 10 in the draft. However if we had finished 14th with pick 3, we still would have drafted Dangerfield (if we are to believe Matt Rendell).

Although it is rotten luch that its looking like the 1 and only year we may bottom out, we may receive pick 14 instead of pick 4.

Which year would that be?
Most of the media and some of our own followers have been expecting us to bottom out for the last 4 years. We have been in the finals for the last 4 years.
I personally think that we will be at our best in the 2010-2115 years without bottoming out in between. Unless you believe that finishing in the lower top 8 is bottoming out. (In our case, that is probably correct.)