Uni offers

[David O'Leary]

Congrats, but my advice is to move into a harder degree and not worry about the marks. 24 P's in Commerce/Law/Accounting/Medicine/Science (the good ones) etc will land you a top job, as well as heaps of free time whilst you're studying.

 

[Walshy_The_Goat]

Thanks for all of your kind words and advice everyone. It's much appreciated I didn't realised there was this sort of "stigma" attached to BAs before I mentioned I was planning on doing it on another forum. Oh well, I think it's the right thing for me so that's all that matters I suppose...

Congrats rizzo I was originally planning on doing a bachelor of journalism (at RMIT) but then decided it wasn't for me so I changed my prefs. Hope it all goes well for you

Edit: WaLkEr_ThE_StAr, if you don't mind me asking, what subjects did you do when you were doing a BA at La Trobe? Any advice on who the good/bad lectures are,any other tips, etc?

I undertook Media Studies, Politics, Legal Studies, and Cinema Studies. I enjoyed each immensely, and can proudly say i learnt quite a lot, especially in regards to Australian politics which i had little knowledge of previously. Bad lecturers? Hmmm, most of mine were pretty good as they didn't really have the tendancy to put you to sleep, although there are those times when the lectures just seem to drag on and on which everyone experiences. Do you know as to which subjects you would be interested in doing?

Oh, and as you've probably already been told, the amount of female talent is simply astounding, especially those doing a BA!

 

[Scotland]

Congrats, but my advice is to move into a harder degree and not worry about the marks. 24 P's in Commerce/Law/Accounting/Medicine/Science (the good ones) etc will land you a top job, as well as heaps of free time whilst you're studying.

Agreed. My word there are some mickey mouse uni courses out there.

There are a plenty of things that are interesting to learn about, but if you're going to spend 3+ years and $20,000+ on a university qualification you're better off going for one that makes you employable.

 

[CharlieG]

Congrats, but my advice is to move into a harder degree and not worry about the marks.

Your advice isn't worth much.

24 P's in Commerce/Law/Accounting/Medicine/Science (the good ones) etc will land you a top job, as well as heaps of free time whilst you're studying.

Gee, that's interesting. You don't realise, I presume, that LLBs are about the most over-supplied degree there is, that a BSc isn't worth anything without post-grad and that with 24 P's you'd be lucky to land a job as a bookkeeper in an accounting firm, don't you?

Medicine and Engineering are the things to do if you want a guaranteed, high-paying job. But if you faint at the site of blood or getting your hands dirty, they're not the choice for you.

 

[CharlieG]

Agreed. My word there are some mickey mouse uni courses out there.

There are a plenty of things that are interesting to learn about, but if you're going to spend 3+ years and $20,000+ on a university qualification you're better off going for one that makes you employable.

Sure. If all you care about is surviving in a job that'll pay for your bad habits on weekends. Some people care about more than money.

 

[Scotland]

Your advice isn't worth much.

His advice is probably valuable to any naive, fresh-faced kids just out of high school who might be reading this thread and think that by doing an obscure arts degree that interests, they will be guaranteed a good job in that field.

Sure. If all you care about is surviving in a job that'll pay for your bad habits on weekends. Some people care about more than money.

A tad self-righteous perhaps? Caring only about money doesn't quite equate to wanting a qualification you are paying $20,000+ for to make you employable.

By all means, kids entering uni should be offered the chance to study whatever interests them, but they should also be told straight up where these courses are likely to lead them with no sugar-coating.

 

[CharlieG]

His advice is probably valuable to any naive, fresh-faced kids just out of high school who might be reading this thread and think that by doing an obscure arts degree that interests, they will be guaranteed a good job in that field.

Fresh-faced naive kids are much better off going with what they think they will like. The experience of moving from school to uni can be alienating enough without adding in work that they find uninspiring.

FFS. He's 17 or 18. It's not as if he's only got one chance to get it right. If he finds that Arts isn't for him, transferring to another course is a fairly simple matter.

A tad self-righteous perhaps? Caring only about money doesn't quite equate to wanting a qualification you are paying $20,000+ for to make you employable.

What you don't understand about Arts degrees is that the student decides whether they will be employable at the end. If you float through accepting Ps, you won't get very far. Contrary to what David O'Leary posted, that's the same in all degrees.

If you work hard and challenge yourself, it doesn't really matter what you major in. The skills you gain will be much the same and are applicable across a massive range of fields.

By all means, kids entering uni should be offered the chance to study whatever interests them,

Oh, so you do understand?

but they should also be told straight up where these courses are likely to lead them with no sugar-coating.

Are you one of these people who thinks that your LLB or BCom will land you a job, no questions asked? Bad news, mate. The job market is saturated with LLBs and BComs.

 

[Scotland]

Fresh-faced naive kids are much better off going with what they think they will like. The experience of moving from school to uni can be alienating enough without adding in work that they find uninspiring.

FFS. He's 17 or 18. It's not as if he's only got one chance to get it right. If he finds that Arts isn't for him, transferring to another course is a fairly simple matter.

Sure, you can have many chances at finding a course you like. If you are happy to float between courses looking for your calling or passion or what have you, it's your right. Just better make suure you have parents who are happy to pay for you for another few years, or that you don't mind racking up a debt that will follow you around for years.

What you don't understand about Arts degrees is that the student decides whether they will be employable at the end. If you float through accepting Ps, you won't get very far. Contrary to what David O'Leary posted, that's the same in all degrees.

Dear me. Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.

If you work hard and challenge yourself, it doesn't really matter what you major in. The skills you gain will be much the same and are applicable across a massive range of fields.

Really? Last I checked employment was a supply and demand issue, and specific qualifications were relevant to specific positions.

Are you one of these people who thinks that your LLB or BCom will land you a job, no questions asked? Bad news, mate. The job market is saturated with LLBs and BComs.

Yes, the job market is saturated with LLB's and BComs, because they aren't that hard to get. To get a job you have to be in the upper echelon.

FYI, I have a BEng (Hons) and a BCom to go with it.

 

[rizzo]

People who say bach of arts is a bull******** area are just plain dumb. Not everyone wants to do accounting, law, medicine etc. Looking at the subjects that are under the arts barrier (at deakin) its pretty interesting. I cant wait to start doing my Journalism/Public Relations course!

 

[Fraz]

WaLkEr_ThE_StAr - I haven't set anything in stone but so far I'm looking at English, History, Politics and Linguistics. Although I might swap one of them to do Anthropology/Sociology.

All I'll say is that I know that a BA is the right way for me to go (and hey, even if I'm wrong and I end up not liking it after a year I can always change. Obviously not ideal but it can be done)

As I mentioned before, having spoken to people in the industry that I hope to get into, they have reassured me that I'm on the right path and commerce etc would not help so I'm not worried on the job front. Employers do not just look at a degree listed on your resume and go "That person has a *insert degree*, let's hire them!" - they look at the whole package. Plus, experience in a relative field/extracurricular activities are regarded a lot more highly than a piece of paper.

Also, I just thought I should point out that I'm actually a girl, not a guy

 

[CharlieG]

Sure, you can have many chances at finding a course you like. If you are happy to float between courses looking for your calling or passion or what have you, it's your right. Just better make suure you have parents who are happy to pay for you for another few years, or that you don't mind racking up a debt that will follow you around for years.

You do realise that there are people with BAs who have perfectly good, well-paying jobs, don't you?

Dear me. Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.

It's true. The difference between a good BA and a poor BA comes down to application and interest.

Really? Last I checked employment was a supply and demand issue, and specific qualifications were relevant to specific positions.

To specific ones, yes. The BA doesn't lead to specific qualifications (unless you want to be an academic) but neither does the BSc, the BCom or LLB. The truth is that an u/g degree is not a qualification in most cases. It is a step towards getting one.

What the BA does give is an education that is more broadly applicable than any other degree.

Yes, the job market is saturated with LLB's and BComs, because they aren't that hard to get. To get a job you have to be in the upper echelon.

So you agree that David O'Leary's post was a load of rot.

FYI, I have a BEng (Hons) and a BCom to go with it.

Congrats. I tried to do a BCom/BA double but the spark simply wasn't there. It was going to be a waste of time when a BA was the best foot in the door for the things that I want to do.

 

[David O'Leary]

Your advice isn't worth much.

Gee, that's interesting. You don't realise, I presume, that LLBs are about the most over-supplied degree there is, that a BSc isn't worth anything without post-grad and that with 24 P's you'd be lucky to land a job as a bookkeeper in an accounting firm, don't you?

Medicine and Engineering are the things to do if you want a guaranteed, high-paying job. But if you faint at the site of blood or getting your hands dirty, they're not the choice for you.

My advice is worth a bit, I've been through Uni and have been working f-t for 3 years.

Had no idea about LLBs being so common. I don't have one but I suspect there'd be adequate demand for them.

Oh and my Uni record is probably worse than 24 P's (quite a few MNs in there). I got serious after the first 2 years, explained this when going for jobs and it paid off.

I have nothing against Arts degrees and agree that you should do whatever you feel is best for you.

 

[CharlieG]

My advice is worth a bit, I've been through Uni and have been working f-t for 3 years.

Advice along the lines of 'do something you don't like and bludge' is pretty piss-poor advice.

Had no idea about LLBs being so common. I don't have one but I suspect there'd be adequate demand for them.

There isn't.

Oh and my Uni record is probably worse than 24 P's (quite a few MNs in there). I got serious after the first 2 years, explained this when going for jobs and it paid off.

You think that this is a typical result?

You realise that comfortably over 1,000 people would graduate in Victoria alone with LLBs every year, don't you? There'd be close to that from Melbourne and Monash alone, if not more... and several other unis offer it. BCom's are BSc's are even more common.

I have nothing against Arts degrees and agree that you should do whatever you feel is best for you.

Good.

 

[Mattlowry]

You realise that comfortably over 1,000 people would graduate in Victoria alone with LLBs every year, don't you? There'd be close to that from Melbourne and Monash alone, if not more... and several other unis offer it. BCom's are BSc's are even more common.

I think both of you are basing your comments or poorly researched stereotypes. However i think his are alot closer to the truth than yours... However i may be biased seeing as i am studying the two degrees you mentioned in the BCom and LLB.

There are alot of jobs that an arts degree can take you. But in many cases people with specialised degrees will get preference before them. Simply put i think you would find it significantly easier getting a job with a commerce or a law degree than an arts degree. Both legal and accounting fields are very competative at the top level, but lower down there are still a significant amount of jobs in both sectors. With Australia becoming larger economically by the minute the demand for accounting is icreasing. I dont have the specific article since i read it over a year ago now but accounting was targeted in the age as one of the bigger growth industries over the next 5 years in terms of demand for students and wage increase. I didnt do that research, i cant remember a significant amount about it but i do remember that.

As for Law Degrees you say that alot of people graduate with them. But you do realise that there would significantly more people graduating with arts degrees yes? And in saying that you would also realise that a SIGNIFICANT amount of people studying LLB's dont end up practicing law, as a significant amount are doing double degrees and choose the other profession (such as myself).

Even after all that i dont think arts degrees are a bad idea. I think they are great for people who dont know what they want to do yet, who want to try out a few things and for certain professions (such as teaching). But even with teaching your better off having a bachelor of education or primary teaching or something like that. They are good to have.

 

[Jeremias]

I got into Arts/Commerce at Monash.

Was my first preference, and got it CSP, so I am extremely happy.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Fresh-faced naive kids are much better off going with what they think they will like. The experience of moving from school to uni can be alienating enough without adding in work that they find uninspiring.

FFS. He's 17 or 18. It's not as if he's only got one chance to get it right. If he finds that Arts isn't for him, transferring to another course is a fairly simple matter.

Exactly, I was studying Bachelor of Engineering (Civil) for 2 years felt the workload was a bother so I switched by doing a few papers and contacting the Dean and it was all done before the end of the Uni Year. (Changed to Construction management and economics).

 

[CharlieG]

I think both of you are basing your comments or poorly researched stereotypes. However i think his are alot closer to the truth than yours... However i may be biased seeing as i am studying the two degrees you mentioned in the BCom and LLB.

We're all biased.

There are alot of jobs that an arts degree can take you. But in many cases people with specialised degrees will get preference before them.

The BCom is a generalist degree, not a specialisation. The LLB can be one or the other.

Simply put i think you would find it significantly easier getting a job with a commerce or a law degree than an arts degree.

In some fields, sure. Of course you're going to find it easier going for a job at JP Morgan if you studied finance. The thing is, not everyone has such a narrow view of the job market.

Both legal and accounting fields are very competative at the top level, but lower down there are still a significant amount of jobs in both sectors.

With both degrees you're in a good position... depending on your marks, specialisations, university and personality.

With Australia becoming larger economically by the minute the demand for accounting is icreasing.

Some people aren't willing to let their entire lives be defined by the job market. I despised accounting, though I was very good at it. Would rather beat my head against a brick wall than contemplate the prospect of a career in accountancy. Some things are more important than money. I wish that students doing BComs were actually taught this, but my own experience suggests differently.

I dont have the specific article since i read it over a year ago now but accounting was targeted in the age as one of the bigger growth industries over the next 5 years in terms of demand for students and wage increase. I didnt do that research, i cant remember a significant amount about it but i do remember that.

From other threads I have in mind that you like Commerce. If so, that's great. But surely you can see that if you're not happy doing something, no amount of statistics makes it a good choice?

As for Law Degrees you say that alot of people graduate with them. But you do realise that there would significantly more people graduating with arts degrees yes?

Of course! I'm not trying to pretend that Arts degrees are a safer bet in terms of employment than LLBs or BComs. The point I'm making is that people make the mistake of thinking that u/g degrees are a) only about getting a job or b) a guarantee of a job. Neither is true. With the exception of Medicine, Nursing and Engineering, there are more graduates in all fields than there are jobs.

What you'll discover in a couple of years is that the competition for people doing BCom/LLB doubles is about as high as anything. Students in those two fields focus on a much narrower range of fields when looking for employment. Arts students are more diverse in terms of what their education consists of and the outcomes that they seek from their education. It is a more individualist degree, and as a result the particular strengths and weaknesses of the individual counts more than the degree itself.

There's pros and cons for all degrees. It just happens that the amount of rot bandied about by armchair dilettantes about BAs is particularly bad.

And in saying that you would also realise that a SIGNIFICANT amount of people studying LLB's dont end up practicing law, as a significant amount are doing double degrees and choose the other profession (such as myself).

Of course. I'm not suggesting, either, that the only use for an LLB is as a practising lawyer. But if you choose to pursue articles at the end of your degree you'll discover what I mean about competition for law jobs.

Even after all that i dont think arts degrees are a bad idea. I think they are great for people who dont know what they want to do yet, who want to try out a few things and for certain professions (such as teaching). But even with teaching your better off having a bachelor of education or primary teaching or something like that. They are good to have.

First of all, BAs are NOT something that 'are good for people who don't know what they want to do yet'. There is no particular degree that people like that should do - they should try whatever interests them most at the time. The number of vapid, careless, idiotic private school teeny-boppers that pollute the Melbourne Uni Arts Faculty does my head in.

BAs are good for the following:
- People with a desire to understand the world and along the way understand themselves. You might think that's wishy-washy. It isn't.
- People who want flexibility in terms of potential careers and skills with broad application across fields.
- People for whom intellectual challenges and fulfillment are of particular importance.
- People wanting to develop research and communication skills (the essential skills for anyone from teachers to journos to politicians and social workers).

 

[peternorth]

Even after all that i dont think arts degrees are a bad idea. I think they are great for people who dont know what they want to do yet, who want to try out a few things and for certain professions (such as teaching). But even with teaching your better off having a bachelor of education or primary teaching or something like that. They are good to have.

i missed out on commerce in 1995 and thank god that i did. arts was my 2nd choice at Monash. it lead me to Chinese (language), psych, politics and economics. as a naive 17 year old eco was hard, but the rest were interesting, and chinese was the best thing i did at uni (including my bach of social work, masters of BusSys). all up 6 years.

i think it allows you to broaden your scope, do a massive range of subjects that may interest you. theres lots of room to move.

Good luck to all new uni students

 

[Scotland]

Arts students are more diverse in terms of what their education consists of and the outcomes that they seek from their education. It is a more individualist degree, and as a result the particular strengths and weaknesses of the individual counts more than the degree itself.

Is there any substance to that statement at all?

BAs are good for the following:
- People with a desire to understand the world and along the way understand themselves. You might think that's wishy-washy. It isn't.

Yes, it is. If that's all you hope to get out of a degree, then good luck to you. If it's a job you are after, I think that potential employers are more interested in whether an individual will be a useful employee to them then whether they have 'found themselves' or are 'content with the world'.

- People who want flexibility in terms of potential careers and skills with broad application across fields.

Not a whole lot of substance to that statement either. Are you familiar with the expression 'Jack of all trades, master of none'? That is how you are portraying arts degrees with statements like that, as overly-general and non-specific.

- People for whom intellectual challenges and fulfillment are of particular importance.

There are plenty of courses that offer intellectual challenges. Try doing some university level calculus for example. Challenging I can assure you, and plenty of people find completing if fulfilling.

- People wanting to develop research and communication skills (the essential skills for anyone from teachers to journos to politicians and social workers).

Research and communication skills are highly valuable. They also aren't the be all and end all, and you don't need a BA to have them.

You seem to have taken a very closed minded approach to this topic. Studying a BA is not the only way to become a 'well rounded individual' or to develop communication and research skills. Plenty of people who study in other fields (or not at all) have great communication skills and are well rounded individuals. Plenty of other courses require students to develop and use these skills in order to complete those courses.

As far as I'm concerned, a graduate with a degree in a specific and relevant field (be it education, engineering, medicine, finance, whatever) who has excellent communication skills and is personable would be in far more demand in the job market than a BA graduate.

 

[Rocco Jones]

'Some people study history, some people create it'- Jock, The Club.

Join the 'Ducky' as your avatar revolution today.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6551371#post6551371

 

[CharlieG]

Is there any substance to that statement at all?

Yes. Let me dumb it down for you. There are more areas of study in a BA. There is less restriction on what you can and can't do in a BA. There is a wider field of potential career paths that the BA opens up to graduates, even if the pool of jobs in any one of those paths is shallower. This means that graduates are more diverse. This also means that what graduates want (and get) out of their degree is more diverse.

Understand now?

Yes, it is. If that's all you hope to get out of a degree, then good luck to you. If it's a job you are after, I think that potential employers are more interested in whether an individual will be a useful employee to them then whether they have 'found themselves' or are 'content with the world'.

Why can't I have both? Is the idea of education being a life experience rather than a shallow pursuit of financial gain so foreign to you?

Not a whole lot of substance to that statement either. Are you familiar with the expression 'Jack of all trades, master of none'? That is how you are portraying arts degrees with statements like that, as overly-general and non-specific.

We are 'Jacks of all trades' in many cases, because what we learn can be applied across many fields. If you think that anyone leaving uni is a 'master' of any profession, you're sadly mistaken. How many times do I have to make the point that u/g degrees are not qualifications in themselves? EVERY job requires either further study or on-the-job learning in order to gain qualifications and competence.

My sister graduated in the top 5% of a specialist course that was the only specialist degree for that particular field in the whole of Australia. She got a great job that she loves - but not one that directly uses what she learned.

There are plenty of courses that offer intellectual challenges. Try doing some university level calculus for example. Challenging I can assure you, and plenty of people find completing if fulfilling.

If that's something that you enjoy, then that's fantastic. That's all that matters. Some look at calculus and just don't care. Why is it that you feel the need to belittle people that get that same spark out of history, philosophy, criminology or so on?

Research and communication skills are highly valuable. They also aren't the be all and end all, and you don't need a BA to have them.

You can get them anywhere, but you ask university professors what the particular strength of a BA is, and they'll point to independent research and communication skills.

You seem to have taken a very closed minded approach to this topic. Studying a BA is not the only way to become a 'well rounded individual' or to develop communication and research skills. Plenty of people who study in other fields (or not at all) have great communication skills and are well rounded individuals. Plenty of other courses require students to develop and use these skills in order to complete those courses.

Absolutely. But the BA is the best way to achieve these things for people that are interested in the fields contained within the BA. Yet again, I'll point out to you that not everyone goes to uni in the hope of being pigeon-holed into a safe career path that they don't actually have any desire to do.

I guarantee you that if I'd stuck with Commerce and majored in Accounting that I would currently be on the fast track to employment with one of the Big Four. What would have been the point, though? I would wake up every morning hating the thought of going to work. I'd rather take my chances looking for something that makes me happy.

As far as I'm concerned, a graduate with a degree in a specific and relevant field (be it education, engineering, medicine, finance, whatever) who has excellent communication skills and is personable would be in far more demand in the job market than a BA graduate.

In their particular fields. Is it really beyond your comprehension that some people don't want to be locked into a narrow range of careers?

 

[Roylion]

But even with teaching your better off having a bachelor of education or primary teaching or something like that. They are good to have.

For the secondary sector in particular, I disagree strongly. For a secondary history teacher, or indeed most other humanities or social science secondary subject, I would recommend completing a Bachelor of Arts degree (majoring in said discipline obviously) followed by a Dip Ed. A major criticism of the teaching of history in secondary schools for example is the lack of in-depth knowledge on the areas where teachers would be expected to teach. Many don't understand the basic concepts and misuse the terminology. Simply, many education degrees do not deal with disciplinary studies as a discrete area of study.

 

[campbell]

You can do a joint arts/teaching degree.
I have a son doing that degree,half way through.He is majoring in Indigenous Studies and Sport.

 

[fryingpan]

Uni is so unbelievably overrated. I've completed year 12 only but now look where I am! Office job, full time with very healthy pay

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

My only advice (free of charge) to all people entering the tertiary system in 2007 would be:

1. Do not make any friends at uni/tafe. They are a distraction and frankly you should have a core group of friends already.
2. If you must talk to someone whilst at uni/tafe make sure it's someone important like a lecturer. Dont waste your time with the plebs.
3. In between lectures, it is smart to summarise the previous lecture's notes. This will free up more time at home which you can dedicate to more advanced study.
4. Summer holidays are the perfect time to photocopy past exams for the upcoming years subjects as well as liaising with future lecturers.
5. Do not, under any circumstances, lend your notes to any of your fellow students. Remember, in a few years they will be your competition in the work market. It is however in your best interest to borrow/steal notes off others.
6. Agree with your lecturer at every opportunity even if he/she is completely wrong and contradicts what you have previously said.
7. Stick to one of Medicine, Law, Pharmacy and Commerce. The others are, as most of you will eventually find out, an utter waste of time.
8. Pub crawls and sweaty sex with fellow students are a no-no.

So there you have it. These seven beauties got me where I am today... Not too many of us QCs going round. I know they sound hard to abide by but stick to these and you'll achieve all your goals and more by the time you're 25 just like I did. Good luck and happy studying!