VFL/AFL Reserves & Under-19 Records?

[Mr Ripper]

To begin with, here are the highest scores each traditional club kicked in the Reserves competition.

Fitzroy . . 32.15 (207) vs Geelong, 1989 (round 5)

Featuring 9 goals on debut from Doc Wheildon.

• The Grand Final has been won from the Elimination Final in the lower grades by Fitzroy Under 19s in 1982 and by Brisbane Bears reserves in 1991.
  

+ Fitzroy reserves 1989.

 

[chardonnay]

Did all the Melbourne clubs have U 19s in the AFL era?

 

[rightfoot_sloth]

yes they did

 

[worbod]

The leading Under 19s goalkickers going as far back as I can find. Not all Christian names or initials were available.


Season Player . . . . . Club . . . .Goals
1953 Crouch . . . . . . Melbourne . . 42
1954 Anderson . . . . . Footscray . . 35
1955 Graham Gotch . . . Fitzroy . . . 43
1956 P Yomelos . . . . .South Melb . .47
1957 R Job . . . . . . .Carlton . . . 37
1958 ??
1959 Barry Abbott . . . Geelong . . . 44
1960 Barry Abbott . . . Geelong . . . 38
1961 Poivesan . . . . . South Melb . .50
1962 Barry Bourke . . . Melbourne . . 67
1963 Cartwright . . . . South Melb . .47
1964 N McDonald . . . . Footscray . . 50
1965 Blair Campbell . . Richmond . . .39
1966 R Sporton . . . . .Essendon . . .65
1967 Geoff Blethyn . . .Essendon . . .68
. . .Rex Hunt . . . . . Richmond . . .68
1968 Doug Baird . . . . Carlton . . . 46
. . .David Droscher . . Richmond . . .46
1969 Grant Allford . . .Richmond . . .50
1970 Graeme Linke . . . Geelong . . . 70
1971 Trevor Heath . . . Essendon . . .64
1972 Graham Teasdale . .Richmond . . .84
1973 R Sweeney . . . . .Collingwood . 88
1974 John Frazer . . . .North Melb . .89
1975 John Frazer . . . .North Melb . 100
1976 J McCann . . . . . North Melb . .89
1977 P Demetriou . . . .Essendon . . .90
1978 W Sieler . . . . . Collingwood . 90
1979 W Sieler . . . . . Collingwood . 85
1980 Peter Lane . . . . Richmond . . 116
1981 David Cordner . . .Melbourne . .111
1982 Brian Winton . . . Richmond . . .81
1983 S Fuller . . . . . Collingwood . 70
1984 Stephen James . . .Richmond . . 101
1985 L Schache . . . . .Essendon . . .74
1986 Mick Martyn . . . .North Melb . .96
1987 Simon Goosey . . . Richmond . . .84
1988 C Fleming . . . . .Geelong . . . 70
1989 S Grundell . . . . Geelong . . . 78
1990 Eric Lissenden . . North Melb . .78
1991 Stuart Edwards . . Richmond . . .76

 

[worbod]

Warnie's footy career.

I wanted to trace Shane Warne's under age football when he played with the St. Kilda Under 19s in 1988. The main problem was that I could not find a newspaper which listed the line-ups for Under 19 teams. Therefore in games when Warne is not listed as being in the best players or in the goalkickers, I canot determine whether he played or not. All I could do was to search through the VFL Footy Records for 1988, courtesy of the MCG library (a Willy Wonka's factory of sporting books), and make note of the instances where Warne kicked a goal. These then are the Under 19s games I know he did play:

Date . . Opposition . .Goals . Result
May 14 . Collingwood . . 2 . . lost by 3
May 22 . Geelong . . . . 1 . . lost by 79
May 28 . Melbourne . . . 1 . . won by 16
June 4 . Hawthorn . . . .7 . . won by 11
June 11 .Footscray . . . 2 . . lost by 45
June 18 .bye
July 3 . Essendon . . . .1 . . won by 80
July 23 .bye
July 30 .Collingwood . . 3 . . lost by 15
Aug 6 . .Footscray . . . 2 . . won by 1
Aug 13 . Richmond . . . .1 . . won by 12
Aug 27 . Geelong . . . . 1 . . lost by 106

St. Kilda Under 19s did not make the finals that season.

Not sure when he played his one Reserves game. I have read it was against Carlton at Princes Park, but not sure of the date. He obviously went goalless that game.

Roland Perry wrote in "Bold Warnie" that Shane also played five Under 19 games in 1987, but there was no mention of Warne in the Under 19s Best or goalkickers in the 1987 Footy Records, so I'm a bit wary of taking this seriously.

 

[Mr Ripper]

1986 Mick Martyn . . . .North Melb . .96

One for the Believe It... Or Not file.

 

[Wallaby]

1980, Richmond had the leading Goalkicker in Seniors, reserves and u/19s. All kicked 100+ (Roach 112, Jackson 131, Lane 116).

No wonder Jacko left - he wasn't getting a game ahead of Roach. So then the Tigers brought in BT and he kicked 100+ in the 2s in 1981.

Never heard of Peter Lane again.

 

[Supermercado]

An extract from Stephen Rogers' "The Complete Book of VFL Records", page 280, which states that the Reserve Grade was established to:

"...provide for senior teams to have attached to them a junior team under the same district qualifications. The junior teams, composed entirely of amateur players, were designed to act as feeders for their respective senior clubs. In the inaugural season of 1919 the clubs to participate were Carlton (District), Collingwood (District), Fitzroy (Juniors), Leopold, Richmond (Juniors), St. Kilda (District), University A and University B (with an abundance of players University were allowed two sides) and West Melbourne. Leopold were attached to South Melbourne, West Melbourne to Essendon and the University sides to Melbourne. (Geelong, with the pick of players from local clubs which were already in established competitions, did not participate yet.) Inevitably the draw deviated from the seniors' draw. In 1920 nine clubs again participated although University had only one side and Melbourne (Juniors) entered the competition. In 1921 University were replaced in the competition by Coburg (District) and West Melbourne became Essendon (Juniors). While there were still nine senior clubs in 1922 there were ten in the reserves as Geelong this year entered. This was the situation until the end of 1924 and gradually, with closer liaison between the senior clubs, the names District and Juniors were discarded. In line with the admission of Footscray, Hawthorn and North Melbourne Senior clubs for 1925 these three also fielded reserves sides, Coburg left the competition (and joined the VFA) and Leopold merged into South Melbourne."

According to the (admittedly sometimes slightly wonky) 1958 history of the MFC by ECH Taylor, the Melbourne Juniors who joined the competition in 1920 were previously the Armadale Presbyterian Club side.

 

[Supermercado]

This article http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22829929?searchTerm= shows Richmond and Richmond Juniors both playing in the thirds in 1950 but no Collingwood team.

 

[Rohan25]

The highest winning margin in the Under 19s is 302 points, acheived by Collingwood 47.33 (315) versus Carlton 1.7 (13) in Round 21, 1991, the penultimate round of home and away Under 19s footy ever.

I don't suppose you have a list of goalkickers for that match mate?

 

[Aker Magic]

Featuring 9 goals on debut from Doc Wheildon.

+ Fitzroy reserves 1989.

The three GF's in 1989 all featured Geelong and they somehow managed to lose all 3 games by a combined total of 9 points! Talk about heart break

 

[pazza]

Just a quick note about Essendon's Under 19's game against the Swans in 1985.

The late Laurence Schache kicked 25 out of Essendon's 44 goals that day (from Every Game Ever Played).

 

[Mr Ripper]

The three GF day matches in 1989 all featured Geelong and they somehow managed to lose all 3 games by a combined total of 9 points! Talk about heart break

EFA.

The U/19s was a Prelim!

 

[worbod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by worbod
The highest winning margin in the Under 19s is 302 points, acheived by Collingwood 47.33 (315) versus Carlton 1.7 (13) in Round 21, 1991, the penultimate round of home and away Under 19s footy ever.

I don't suppose you have a list of goalkickers for that match mate?


I got this score from the relevant edition of Inside Football, and they did not print the goalkickers for Under 19s games. The only place I can think of which would have them published is in a copy of the Footy Record for the following week. The MCG library would have a copy. I'm hoping to visit there in a month's time so I hope I can find the info then if you don't find it before me.

 

[rbartlett]

Quote:
Originally Posted by worbod
The highest winning margin in the Under 19s is 302 points, acheived by Collingwood 47.33 (315) versus Carlton 1.7 (13) in Round 21, 1991, the penultimate round of home and away Under 19s footy ever.

I don't suppose you have a list of goalkickers for that match mate?


I got this score from the relevant edition of Inside Football, and they did not print the goalkickers for Under 19s games. The only place I can think of which would have them published is in a copy of the Footy Record for the following week. The MCG library would have a copy. I'm hoping to visit there in a month's time so I hope I can find the info then if you don't find it before me.

Allow me to help you. From my archives:

Collingwood: S Bennett 11, S Rocca 6, G Walsh 6, A Cameron 3, L gray 3, A Hamer 3, A Bruni 2, M Erwin 2, M Galletly 2, D Groves 2, B Murray 2, F Carelli 1, J Hassall 1, R Maiorana 1, M Phelan 1, N Probert 1.

Carlton's sole goalkicker was G. Indian

- Rhett Bartlett
www.twitter.com/rhettrospective
www.rhettrospective.com

 

[Supermercado]

Is there anywhere to get reserves/seconds and Under 19's/thirds ladders from the end of each season? So much the better if the fourths are on there too but it's not a dealbreaker.

 

[worbod]

As far as I know, the best ways are to either purchase old copies of finals records, which, because the home and away season is over by that stage, would have full ladders published. I have managed to obtain old ladders going back into the early 1970s by doing this over the years.

Also, old microfilms of The Sporting Globe have been a great source, or maybe even the regular Melbourne newspapers.

 

[Kingpin]

1982 Brian Winton . . . Richmond . . .81

We had this guy all but signed, sealed and delivered to come across to Hobart in 1990 and he baulked at the last minute and stayed in Victoria.
Was supposed to be a pretty handy player, too.

Allow me to help you. From my archives:

F Carelli 1, N Probert 1.

Fabian Carelli. Came across from the Preston Knights in the old VFA to Devonport in the TFL and won the William Leitch Medal in 1997.
Wonder if the N.Probert is Nick Probert?

 

[stemline]

For anyone interested in the Hawthorn Reserves record score:

1987, R7
Hawthorn 45.20 (290)
Sydney 6.12 (48)

Hawthorn Goals: R.Lester-Smith 10, D.Anderson 6, R.Dickson 6, J.Morrissey 6, P.James 5, T.Symonds 3, D.Butler 2, R.Ellingworth 2, J.Bennett 1, P.Dear 1, S.Ralphsmith 1, P.Schwab 1, C.Wittman 1.
Hawthorn Best: J.Morrissey, R.Lester-Smith, R.Dickson, A.Condon, D.Pritchard, P.James.

 

[The OBSTacle]

For anyone interested in the Hawthorn Reserves record score:

1987, R7
Hawthorn 45.20 (290)
Sydney 6.12 (48)

Hawthorn Goals: R.Lester-Smith 10, D.Anderson 6, R.Dickson 6, J.Morrissey 6, P.James 5, T.Symonds 3, D.Butler 2, R.Ellingworth 2, J.Bennett 1, P.Dear 1, S.Ralphsmith 1, P.Schwab 1, C.Wittman 1.
Hawthorn Best: J.Morrissey, R.Lester-Smith, R.Dickson, A.Condon, D.Pritchard, P.James.

Christ, how many AFL premiership players were in that lineup? 8 or 9?

The supreme irony is that Hawthorns seniors lost to Sydney in this round.

 

[franjon]

One for the Believe It... Or Not file.

You can believe it!
Mick Martyn was a top full forward as a junior until Denis Pagan decided he was a full back

 

[The OBSTacle]

You can believe it!
Mick Martyn was a top full forward as a junior until Denis Pagan decided he was a full back

I think the signature of a child prodigy from the bush named John Longmire, put paid to Micks days as a full forward.

 

[worbod]

This is probably a well known stat for many people. The most career goals in the reserves is 655 from 168 games by Mark Scott for Hawthorn, Fitzroy and St. Kilda. Scott also played 78 senior games for 175 goals, 16 Under 19s games for 82 goals and 11 night games for 23 goals. An overall total of 273 games for 935 goals.

 

[stemline]

Superb stuff mate, they're impressive numbers for a bloke most people wouldn't have heard of!

 

[Supermercado]

Don't know of any website that does. I'm getting a lot of my info from old editions of Inside Football and from a Stephen Rogers book.

Here are some other scores beyond 200 from the Under 19s:

39.26 (260) Carlton vs St. Kilda, 1980
38.23 (251) Essendon vs South Melbourne, 1973
33.27 (225) Collingwood vs South Melbourne, 1965
34.20 (224) Richmond vs St. Kilda, 1987
34.19 (223) Hawthorn vs Geelong, 1974
33.19 (217) North Melbourne vs St. Kilda, 1991
32.21 (213) Richmond vs Hawthorn, 1987
31.27 (213) Collingwood vs Hawthorn, 1989
32.20 (212) Richmond vs St. Kilda, 1985
29.30 (204) Richmond vs South Melbourne, 1973
31.18 (204) Carlton vs Geelong, 1990
31.17 (203) Richmond vs St. Kilda, 1981
30.23 (203) Melbourne vs Hawthorn, 1981
30.22 (202) Sydney vs Geelong, 1991
30.21 (201) Hawthorn vs Carlton, 1991

Just came across this game in the newspapers http://news.google.com.au/newspapers?id=UhEQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ypADAAAAIBAJ&pg=3698,130040

South kicked 1.2 in reply!