VFL during the 2 World Wars

[Gone Critical]

A recent thread (which has been closed down) made some incorrect claims about the VFL seasons ran during the 2 World Wars. Thought I might just clarify things

"Mister Magic" claimed only 4 clubs participated through WW1 and the competition closed in WW2. This is not right. It is an interesting topic though if you like history so I thought I would correct the information

In WWI all nine teams played the 1914 and 15 seasons. In 1916 only 4 teams participated (inner city clubs Coll Carl Fitz Rich). This allowed Fitzroy to win the wooden spoon and the premiership in the same season. In 1917 Geel and South Melb returned to play. In 1918 only Melbourne stood out with St Kilda and Essendon returning to play

University (the team coming from Melb Uni) joined the VFL in 1908 and disbanded prior to 1915 as they lost to many players to the war effort. Thay reformed in 1919 (but not in the VFL) forming 2 sides which continue to play in the VAFA today as Uni Blacks and Uni Blues

In WW2 the competition continued largely intact. Geelong stood out for 2 seasons (1942 and 43) because travel restrictions made it impossible for them to play

The divide in WW1 can be understood by looking at the secular and class divisions between the clubs. There was considerable differences in how the working class, predominantly Irish Catholic clubs, (Collingwood, RIchmond etc) viewed the war effort compared to the more affluent middle class clubs such as Melbourne and Essendon who were almost exclusively Prodestant

Daniel Mannix the Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne at the time was a political figure and one of the driving forces behind the defeats of the 2 referendums to bring in conscription of military service

Its fair to say WW1 was seen differently by the working class compared to the middle class and it was this that largely drove the clubs different views on standing out of the 1916 season

 

[Mister Magic]

Thanks for the information GC- I stand corrected.
I too think it is an interesting topic.

Do you know why some Clubs elected not to play?
Was it simply that they didn't have enough players or was it a philosophical decision.

I know that St Kilda changed their colours from Red, White adn Black to Red, Yellow and Black as philosophically they didn't want to wear the same colours as Germany. (Red, Yellow and Black were the national colours of Belgium, one of our allies).

Were there other significant decisions made by Clubs at that time?

 

[Ron The Bear]

I know that St Kilda changed their colours from Red, White adn Black to Red, Yellow and Black as philosophically they didn't want to wear the same colours as Germany. (Red, Yellow and Black were the national colours of Belgium, one of our allies).

Also out of sympathy, as Belgium was the first country to be attacked by the Germans. Perhaps deciding that Nazis weren't so bad, the Saints reverted to their original colours in 1923 and drafted Nick Riewoldt in 2000.

There was plenty of debate as to whether football should be played during wartime, and the VFL held a meeting in July 1915 to decide whether to bring an end to the h&a season and commence the finals immediately. It was decided to complete the season as planned, while donating 10% of gate takings to the war effort.

No matches were played on August 4, 1917, so as not to clash with the nationally-declared 'Recruiting Day' activities which marked three years since the commencement of the war.

The VFA offered to suspend its competition during WW2 at the request of the Victorian government. From The Age:

If the Victorian premier desired the VFA to cease playing football it would readily comply, the president said, as Australia came first and sport and leisure after.

Four Melbourne premiership players were killed in WW2, including Ron Barassi snr.

These taken from Our Game by Jim Main.

 

[Pessimistic]

I have some sympathy with those that thought WW1 as we call it now was a crock of s**t.

Not taking anything away from bravery the thousansds of working class people who suffered because of it. My GGF included

 

[kosifantutti]

Also out of sympathy, as Belgium was the first country to be attacked by the Germans. Perhaps deciding that Nazis weren't so bad, the Saints reverted to their original colours in 1923 and drafted Nick Riewoldt in 2000.

Even with a smiley face, that's not funny. And I don't think there were a lot of Nazis around in 1923.

 

[al ain pie]

Even with a smiley face, that's not funny. And I don't think there were a lot of Nazis around in 1923.

l would agree with your first sentence (well to be honest it did cause a slight giggle) but l think Anton Drexler and a few german jews may disagree with the second.

This thread is a good one and could (if it stays on track) provide a interesting insight to many of the reasons for the club rivalries that continue today

 

[yodellinhank]

Cool info guys, keep it coming. I'd be interested to learn more about the "patriotic match"(es?)

I have a badge/pin that simply says something like "vfl patriotic match", and it has a picture of a football with the colors red white and blue across it. It was passed down to me and I'd love to know when it was from.

 

[Gone Critical]

Thanks for the information GC- I stand corrected.
I too think it is an interesting topic.

Do you know why some Clubs elected not to play?
Was it simply that they didn't have enough players or was it a philosophical decision.

I know that St Kilda changed their colours from Red, White adn Black to Red, Yellow and Black as philosophically they didn't want to wear the same colours as Germany. (Red, Yellow and Black were the national colours of Belgium, one of our allies).

Were there other significant decisions made by Clubs at that time?

Mainly a philosophical decision but also coloured by considerations of the importance of the money football provided to the family of the player. Essendon and Melb players for instance relied far less on money made form playing compared to say Collingwood and Richmond.

The catholic v prodestant issue was also a significant factor and was stronly allied to the Irish v British problems. There were also issues around why fit young men who played football were not volunteering to join the forces. The establishment forces were pushing this line as I understand things

 

[The_Reaper]

The WAFL only ran an underage competition during world war II.
East Perth don't count their premiership that they won during this time.

The SANFL only had a 4 team competion with the 8 teams being merged into 4.
Port Adelaide were merged with West Torrens.

 

[Brenton Davy]

The WAFL only ran an underage competition during world war II.
East Perth don't count their premiership that they won during this time.

The SANFL only had a 4 team competion with the 8 teams being merged into 4.
Port Adelaide were merged with West Torrens.

Other teams were:

North Adelaide/Norwood
West Adelaide/Glenelg
South Adelaide/Sturt

 

[Mister Magic]

How many VFL players actually served in WW1 and WW2?

 

[Wallaby]

This is a very good Wikipedia article which has links to most of the basic info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_VFL_during_the_World_Wars

A particular subset is the list of players who died in the wars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Victorian_Football_League_players_who_died_in_active_service


I really enjoyed the piece about the Changi Football League. Funny, I watched Chicken Smallhorn on the ABC footy programs for years and never knew he was in WW2 or at Changi and on the Burma Railway. If he was on today's footy programs, they would be making jokes about it every five minutes.

 

[Partridge]

Even with a smiley face, that's not funny. And I don't think there were a lot of Nazis around in 1923.

There were actually, the Beer Hall Putsch was in November of that year.

Fascinating to read about the early history of some of the teams, events that would generate mountains of news now seemed to be regular occurences.

 

[newcs]

I've heard that when Geelong went to return to the competition in 1944, several clubs tried to oppose it because they didn't like the travelling down to Geelong. My grandparents told me that Collingwood used their infuence and made sure that Geelong returned to the VFL.
Does anyone know which were the teams that tried to stop returning to the VFL ?

 

[General Soreness]

I've heard that when Geelong went to return to the competition in 1944, several clubs tried to oppose it because they didn't like the travelling down to Geelong. My grandparents told me that Collingwood used their infuence and made sure that Geelong returned to the VFL.
Does anyone know which were the teams that tried to stop returning to the VFL ?

Apparently it was Carlton.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gfc-history-and-records-quizes.994276/#post-27515361

 

[MightyTiger]

Apparently it was Carlton.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gfc-history-and-records-quizes.994276/#post-27515361

You just quoted a post from 2011...

 

[BoxMatrix]

You just quoted a post from 2011...

But aren't you glad that this mystery that has long haunted BigFooty is now solved?

 

[General Soreness]

You just quoted a post from 2011...

I know.

 

[Deep]

You just quoted a post from 2011...

He answered a question that a poster who is actually active has been waiting 6 years to find out

I reckon they sat there all that time just waiting alone.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Also out of sympathy, as Belgium was the first country to be attacked by the Germans. Perhaps deciding that Nazis weren't so bad, the Saints reverted to their original colours in 1923 and drafted Nick Riewoldt in 2000.

There was plenty of debate as to whether football should be played during wartime, and the VFL held a meeting in July 1915 to decide whether to bring an end to the h&a season and commence the finals immediately. It was decided to complete the season as planned, while donating 10% of gate takings to the war effort.

No matches were played on August 4, 1917, so as not to clash with the nationally-declared 'Recruiting Day' activities which marked three years since the commencement of the war.

The VFA offered to suspend its competition during WW2 at the request of the Victorian government. From The Age:



Four Melbourne premiership players were killed in WW2, including Ron Barassi snr.

These taken from Our Game by Jim Main.

Still *s me off to this day how the four clubs tried to raise money for the patriotic fund in the 1916 season.
Then pocketed between 83 and 100% of the donations.

The despicable selfish acts make me believe that Collingwood Richmond Carlton and Fitzroy should be kept well clear of any Anzac Day games.

Seriously.
Let's use Collingwood as an example, change it to a modern day cause, and take inflation into account.

1916- Collingwood raises £664 for the patriotic fund.
Take inflation into account, north Melbourne raise $64,865 for the women's and children's hospital on good Friday

Yet, after taking their amount for "expenses" only £40 gets to the patriotic fund
That'd be like north pocketing $60,957 only giving the women's and children's hospital a little under $4,000 because it cost the, $60k to run the charity drive.

Not as bad as Carlton who pocketed every last shilling they raised. But it's still bad enough to the point that I won't reward these teams with anything.

Give us Essendon vs Melbourne on Anzac Day ffs.

 

[General Soreness]

Still ****s me off to this day how the four clubs tried to raise money for the patriotic fund in the 1916 season.
Then pocketed between 83 and 100% of the donations.

In 1914 the president of the Metropolitan Amateur Football Association told the VFL that players that played during the war should be awarded an Iron Cross for the Premiership for services to the enemy. I wonder what he thought of the appropriation of the patriotic funds.

 

[Ron The Bear]

March
The committee will ask the players to play as amateurs, albeit with limited pay for out of pocket expenses.

May
Richmond decides that all profits for the season are to be handed to the Returned Soldiers’ Immediate Relief Fund.

https://www.tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=1916+Chronology

 

[Luv_our_club]

Football was much tougher back then.

 

[LoungeLizard]

What i find interesting in threads like this is, how people criticise the players who didn't go to war.
Australia has been fighting in wars for a long long time, how many went and fought in any of them?

 

[AFLOnline]

What i find interesting in threads like this is, how people criticise the players who didn't go to war.
Australia has been fighting in wars for a long long time, how many went and fought in any of them?

I'm glad players declined. I'd have felt pretty empty missing out on Boomers illustrious career had he chosen to go to war.