Opinion Vickers or Griffiths

[unfoley]

Who is the better footballer? Cant see Ivan Hammers Vicks and Griff playing in one team. Who will go or will both play ...

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

 

[caroma]

Griff at CHF. Ivan/Hammer resting in fwd line. Ty in the VFL.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TigersMan4]

Do you pick the proven performer at AFL level, or the one who has had a good pre season?

A sane person (and coach) would pick the former.

 

[unfoley]

Yeah I think Tye really needs to take another step this season but I got q feeling Griffs can be really important for us. I woukd like to see all of them in the side

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

 

[sante]

Griff and Vickery aren't going to learn much from playing VFL. Both in the team suits me, the big dilemma is when Ivan returns.

 

[Final Siren]

Who is the better footballer?!? I'm Griff's biggest fan, but right now it's Vickery.

Griff played one game in 2013 and it was crap. In 2012 he was subbed off more than any other player. He's got enormous potential but one good game doesn't mean he's arrived.

 

[Mr Magic]

No brainer atm, clearly Griffiths.

Griffiths better in Ruck.

Griffiths better at half forward where we lack.

Griffiths more flexible and more rounded can also help down back and around the ground with his long kick.

TV really needs to develop his game. If it means doing this via the reserves so be it! TV has to figure out what he can do to make the grade. Shuffling into space isn't going to cut it. He needs to mark a lot better, compete in the ruck a lot better, use his body shoulders more and improve his leap. Only TV knows what is possible for him!

 

[Mr Magic]

Who is the better footballer?!? I'm Griff's biggest fan, but right now it's Vickery.

Griff played one game in 2013 and it was crap. In 2012 he was subbed off more than any other player. He's got enormous potential but one good game doesn't mean he's arrived.

Griff, has excuses, he was injuried for a while. He played out of position at times. Defensive match-up in 2013 versus Hampson absurd. And it was only one match.

Griffiths has shown drive and determination getting back. TV floats around like he has had everything given to him. TV atm is not good for team spirit until he gets dirty and earns any kudos

 

[Mr Magic]

Do you pick the proven performer at AFL level, or the one who has had a good pre season?

A sane person (and coach) would pick the former.

Assuming you mean TV, TV is not a proven performer at AFL level. The stats, efforts and performances simply do not support such an assertion!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Griffiths has more good attributes .
Leads , marks on the lead , can jump and mark. , tackles , has a defensive mindset and most glowing of all ATM , is the better ruckman.
TV is fighting with Hampson for the resting ruck role once Ivan comes back IMO .

 

[Gentlemen]

Assuming you mean TV, TV is not a proven performer at AFL level. The stats, efforts and performances simply do not support such an assertion!

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/T/Tyrone_Vickery.html

Tyrone has played 5 seasons of AFL.
2 of them were his first two, which is always tough, 1 of them he was playing with a shoulder injury then missed the rest due to the same injury.

The remaining two are very good seasons for a young KPF (not even the main one), 36 and 27 goals respectively, along with man bags of 3+

Tyrone had a pretty bad game on the weekend, but he's definitely proven himself in past years, don't try and pretend he hasn't.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/T/Tyrone_Vickery.html

Tyrone has played 5 seasons of AFL.
2 of them were his first two, which is always tough, 1 of them he was playing with a shoulder injury then missed the rest due to the same injury.

The remaining two are very good seasons for a young KPF (not even the main one), 36 and 27 goals respectively, along with man bags of 3+

Tyrone had a pretty bad game on the weekend, but he's definitely proven himself in past years, don't try and pretend he hasn't.

I have always thought he has had more bad games than good ones and by some margin .
So I looked up his 2013 average stats versus round 1 2014 .
It appears the weekends game is a average TV game !!!!

 

[Gentlemen]

I have always thought he has had more bad games than good ones and by some margin .
So I looked up his 2013 average stats versus round 1 2014 .
It appears the weekends game is a average TV game !!!!

Of course, stats don't tell the entire story.

Looking at stats and it's not an awful game, Ty got 2 goals, 4 marks and a few tackles.
But we all know that it wasn't the case, it was pretty poor.

But what I'm trying to say is, Tyrone (while he's had some shockers, which every KPP is going to have) has played some very good games aswell.

 

[El Tigre]

We've got the opportunity to find put over the next few weeks while we can have both in the team. TV has at one stage proven he can be accurate in front of goal, but BG has more range. TV has better lateral movement, but BG is probably better on the lead. BG prob a bit faster in s straight line. Contested pack mark, neither stand out for me, but TV probably better. It comes to who wants the position most will get the position.

 

[Mr Magic]

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/T/Tyrone_Vickery.html

Tyrone has played 5 seasons of AFL.
2 of them were his first two, which is always tough, 1 of them he was playing with a shoulder injury then missed the rest due to the same injury.

The remaining two are very good seasons for a young KPF (not even the main one), 36 and 27 goals respectively, along with man bags of 3+

Tyrone had a pretty bad game on the weekend, but he's definitely proven himself in past years, don't try and pretend he hasn't.

The bold I cannot agree with.


2 very good seasons young KPF- 36 and 27 goals respectively? Not good enough, batshit obvious. How old is/was TV? Watch younger Patton and Cameron this year regarding quality!

Seriously, TV has done nothing yet to have stepped out of project player mode. Bags of 3 need to be bags of 6 every now and then to have any real forward potential and as a ruck forward seems to want to avoid the ruck.

Even as a resting forward he does not take good solid marks and lacks a consistent leap. Atm for me he does not hav the runs on the board. Because Griffiths helps us more at half forward clearly, gives us more in the ruck and can lead from deep forward as well with a better kick and mark he has to be ahead of TV.

Now do some of you know why I would never have given TV more than 250K a year? between $100K to 200K for a year or 2 for TV seems more than adequate atm!

 

[Gentlemen]

The bold I cannot agree with.


2 very good seasons young KPF- 36 and 27 goals respectively? Not good enough, batshit obvious. How old is/was TV? Watch younger Patton and Cameron this year regarding quality!

Seriously, TV has done nothing yet to have stepped out of project player mode. Bags of 3 need to be bags of 6 every now and then to have any real forward potential and as a ruck forward seems to want to avoid the ruck.

Even as a resting forward he does not take good solid marks and lacks a consistent leap. Atm for me he does not hav the runs on the board. Because Griffiths helps us more at half forward clearly, gives us more in the ruck and can lead from deep forward as well with a better kick and mark he has to be ahead of TV.

Know do some of you know why I would never have given TV more than 250K a year?

Difference between Cameron and Vickery? (Apart from Cameron being a freak) is that Vickery is NOT the No.1 forward, Riewoldt is.

He is more experienced the Griff, he has shown that he can kick bags of 3 (for a 2nd forward? good).

Griff hasn't done much apart from take nice marks and kick long, I like Griff, but right now Vickery is ahead of him. Will this change? Possibly.

 

[Mr Magic]

Difference between Cameron and Vickery? (Apart from Cameron being a freak) is that Vickery is NOT the No.1 forward, Riewoldt is.

He is more experienced the Griff, he has shown that he can kick bags of 3 (for a 2nd forward? good).

Griff hasn't done much apart from take nice marks and kick long, I like Griff, but right now Vickery is ahead of him. Will this change? Possibly.

Yet TV gets 14 balls sent in his direction compared to 3 for JR?? Madness!!!

BTW, Griffiths who can play better in the ruck and half forward doesn't need to kick more goals than TV. TV seems to be trying to make a case as a deep forward. As a deep forward TV needs to kick more goals as he is closer to goal etc... to be effective in that position!!

TV has had more games, doesn't mean he is more experienced if he hasn't learn't anything and can't apply it to make himself better. Griffiths has at least improved himself after injuries and so forth .

As a big guy, you are there to take marks and kick well. If we want leading players into space we can get others like A Edwards that are better on the ground than TV.

Atm the way TV plays, like Nahas, like McGuane in defense he is a liability to the team.

If you get 14 kicks in your direction, drop marks, lose the ball and only kick 2 from easy plays in space the team will suffer!!

If TV is not a forward, not a ruck, what is he?

If GWS win the premiership in 2015, then you may understand the importance of experience against other attributes!


Atm,with the games under TV's belt, TV is closer to being a dud from being a project player! That is all. I hope TV makes it and he develops, but currently after his preseason and first match it appears unlikely and despite the fact he got a 3 year extension, I am not buying this projection!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Of course, stats don't tell the entire story.

Looking at stats and it's not an awful game, Ty got 2 goals, 4 marks and a few tackles.
But we all know that it wasn't the case, it was pretty poor.

But what I'm trying to say is, Tyrone (while he's had some shockers, which every KPP is going to have) has played some very good games aswell.

Exactly my point IMO he has been lazy in his effort for the most part of his career and this has been masked by the fact others have been cleaning up his shit .
Being a little further from goal and without others assistances his poor efforts were exposed .

 

[Final Siren]

Of course, stats don't tell the entire story.

Looking at stats and it's not an awful game, Ty got 2 goals, 4 marks and a few tackles.
But we all know that it wasn't the case, it was pretty poor.

But what I'm trying to say is, Tyrone (while he's had some shockers, which every KPP is going to have) has played some very good games aswell.

Griff's great game last week is still below Vickery's average.

You're blinded by expectation. Vickery was disappointing because we expect more. Griff was exciting because he played the best game of his career. That doesn't mean he's instantly a better player.

 

[Mr Magic]

Griff's great game last week is still below Vickery's average.

You're blinded by expectation. Vickery was disappointing because we expect more. Griff was exciting because he played the best game of his career. That doesn't mean he's instantly a better player.

Griffiths had better matches in the NAB challenge than the weekend, seriously.

Griffiths match on the weekend would be average after his physical development off injuries.

Vickery on the other hand is unproven.

Happy to sit back and be proven wrong.

 

[TheProwler]

Too hard to compare these two as one has clearly had more of an opportunity than the other at AFL level.

Both have shown glimpses of promise but under delivered. Griffiths has played back more than forward in the AFL so it's hard to compare. Even at VFL Griffiths hasn't had that much time forward (or if he has he hasn't delivered). Results from VFL show McBean as the better fwd than Griffiths so how do we know what he can do?

Vickery needs the law read to him and told to start having a crack or consider options elsewhere comes seasons end. Has been given the opportunity for too long and is list clogging if he doesn't step up. Please let us not be still having this conversation in two years time

 

[Final Siren]

Griffiths had better matches in the NAB challenge than the weekend, seriously.

Griffiths match on the weekend would be average after his physical development off injuries.

Vickery on the other hand is unproven.

Happy to sit back and be proven wrong.

BTW thanks to all the idiots on the weekend. Laying Swans at 1.03 during the match in run v GWS was a thing of beauty! Just sorry didn't load the truck up more!

Come on, now you're saying Griff's form in practice matches makes him experienced while Vickery is the unproven one. I saw those games too, and while I liked Griff's work, he was good in pre-season in 2013, too. Practice matches don't make footballers.

 

[Mr Magic]

Come on, now you're saying Griff's form in practice matches makes him experienced while Vickery is the unproven one. I saw those games too, and while I liked Griff's work, he was good in pre-season in 2013, too. Practice matches don't make footballers.

Agree, but I have never felt TV has left project player stage.

TV has never broken out yet!.

Griffiths for me has shown more, is more likely and is more capable, despite fewer games. In fact one can agree Griffiths is more likely because Griffiths has had fewer opportunity and TV is closer to being a proven dud unless he can turn it around!

If I had to buy shares in Griffiths or TV , Griffiths is a no-brainer. If I was coach no-brainer I would play Griffiths before/ahead of TV and subbing Griffiths off on the weekend was disgraceful and very very poor!

 

[Final Siren]

Agree, but I have never felt TV has left project player stage.

TV has never broken out yet!.

Griffiths for me has shown more, is more likely and is more capable.

If I had to buy shares in Griffiths or TV , Griffiths is a no-brainer. If I was coach no-brainer I would play Griffiths before/ahead of TV and subbing Griffiths off on the weekend was disgraceful and very very poor!

I think everyone loves Griff's potential, and drool at the idea of him lobbing 60m bombs home for goal. But let's not get ahead of ourselves and say he's our best key forward after one good game... that's a massive overreaction, and sets him up for the hysterical backlash when he's not able to keep delivering.

So, more likely and more capable, maybe so, but already better? Nope.

Griff was subbed off because he doesn't have the tank. He is, I think, the most subbed-off guy in RFC history. That's one thing age and experience buys you: the ability to stand up late in a game. It didn't work out against GC but I understand the reasoning.

 

[Mr Magic]

Too hard to compare these two as one has clearly had more of an opportunity than the other at AFL level.

Both have shown glimpses of promise but under delivered. Griffiths has played back more than forward in the AFL so it's hard to compare. Even at VFL Griffiths hasn't had that much time forward (or if he has he hasn't delivered). Results from VFL show McBean as the better fwd than Griffiths so how do we know what he can do?

Vickery needs the law read to him and told to start having a crack or consider options elsewhere comes seasons end. Has been given the opportunity for too long and is list clogging if he doesn't step up. Please let us not be still having this conversation in two years time

I suspect it is difficult to assess forwards in the reserves because, despite the opposition, a lot depends on the delivery. At AFL level with better delivery, if good enough, they can show more due to the delivery.

For me though, TV is a good kick for goal for his size but that is it atm. TV does not win enough ball for the opportunities he gets , he doesn't win enough hard ball in particular, and aerially poles apart from Richo if not diametrically opposite, and in a finals situation, TV has never shown me anything to lend me to suggest he could be anything but ineffective under finals pressure and attention atm!

See Nicholls slap the ball away from him coming from behind and the side? TV's hands, marking technique, leap, ruckwork, atm simply not good enough for his size/position atm, plus drops chest marks in space. Only hope he can develops those attributes and the 3 year extension was not a total waste!