Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Mobbs]

Really touching video from Anna From Ukraine's second channel about how Ukrainians live under the long periods of blackouts and other utility outages. Was really struck by her story about how the industry of hi-res gear took off because people would go out walking and driving during periods without lighting in the cities. Haven't finished it yet because she said now she's about to talk about hard things and wanted to get this post out before I fall apart.
Edit: She could do with more subscribers on this channel. Been following it a couple weeks now and it's very worthwhile.

 

[jatz14]

He only just heard Putin was using Iranian weapons? Really?

Mr “I will end the war on day one!” says he will have to think about this ‘new’ information for a while, talk it out, delay for his comrade Putin.

He probably heard it before. He may even hear it every day, and every day, its a surprise.

 

[barreness]

Do you find those colours offensive?

It's Russian af flag colours btw tovarisch.

Why do they have to be searched comrade?


Pooinhispantstin afraid of a military coup?

You're such a meme man. But yeh air force flag as posters above pointed out, I didn't know that

I mean he should be afraid of assassination, that's the US empire's plan A

 

[barreness]

I don't visit this thread much, if at all. I've been neutral about the Russian invasion of Ukraine to be honest. Putin's war against the LGBT+ community in his own nation (Pussy Riot woke me up back in 2010-11 - look them up) means I can never in good conscience back Russia in any endeavour while he or people who share his bigotries hold power there.

I've always been opposed to US foreign policy 'adventures' though. This lengthy New York Times article

The Secret History of the War in Ukraine (Published 2025)

This is the untold story of America’s hidden role in Ukrainian military operations against Russia’s invading armies.

www.nytimes.com

doesn't make me hate Zelensky or Ukraine, but it ensures I will never back them either.

Back to neutrality I guess!!

Yeh is an interesting article. Goes into the details of the US empires control and also the internal fights between Zelensky and his Generals

An archive link for those that don't want to pay American propagandists
https://web.archive.org/web/2025033...war-wiesbaden.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

 

[OneGreatClub]

Double whammy on the gay community in Russia right now. First their old testament patriarch security bureau hates lgbti, secondly they are clamping down on anything that doesn't produce more cannon fodder. Ie nuclear cis families.

In the latest news on that front, there's a push to ban youth from the countryside joining universities in town, because they should be back home making babies instead of all this education slash career stuff.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

Must be where Project 2025 are getting all
their brilliant ideas from then. Still waiting to hear what Trump meant when he called himself the fertilisation President.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Yeh is an interesting article. Goes into the details of the US empires control and also the internal fights between Zelensky and his Generals

An archive link for those that don't want to pay American propagandists
https://web.archive.org/web/2025033...war-wiesbaden.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

Yawn

 

[OneGreatClub]

Putin and Dugin must be thrilled that mainstream US media is promoting his fascist views.

 

[OneGreatClub]

He wants “peace”

 

[barreness]

Yawn

It's the NY times man, some interesting insight I thought. If this is russian propaganda then we're all cooked

It is a longer article so I could see why you might struggle

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[OneGreatClub]

Of course they are. Awaiting Vance and Trump’s comments.

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[Mobbs]

Putin and Dugin must be thrilled that mainstream US media is promoting his fascist views.

Did they ask him to explain more about how he believes Russia needs to control all of Europe for its security v the devils of the west?

 

[Mobbs]

He wants “peace”

This is probably the annual springtime conscription, however from memory it sounds small, so maybe the article is pointing out that its 160k more than usual?
I can't read Twitter links so can never see the meat of these.

 

[Mobbs]

From [Crimea Comeback IG Channel] (compressed for BF attachment limitations):
View attachment crimeacrimeantatarsukrainerussiaisaterroriststateeurope.mp4

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Ukraine doesn't want to be r*ped & pillaged by Russia. Russia is not welcome in Ukraine. Ukraine hasn't attacked or done anything to Russia other than not wanting to be a puppet state of Russia any longer.

Yes, and it's completely understandable that Eastern Europe wants to be free of Moscow's grasp. What does this new Russia offer them apart from Creeping Conservatism and a severe repression of the LGBT+ community? But switching allegiances to another Great Power - it's just lurching from one abusive rapist to another.

We're a Western market economy here in Australia and we all of us are getting r*ped. Everyone I know, myself included have barely got our heads above water. Yet the upper crust keeps getting more gilded.

Man, f*ck that system. F*ck Russia but f*ck Washington's macroeconomic rape as well. Ukraine, you run, girl. Run from the Great Powers who want your every hole.

Moscow's more brute-forceful at face value but Washington's 'freedom' aint that free either, girl.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I really wanted to 'like' your post, but the mathematical OCD in me wants your 'posts' and 'likes' to stay level

You should see me when it comes to odometer readings. I literally pull over and photo the feckers.

Hah, I never noticed that! Almost level pegging.

 

[Mobbs]

Yes, and it's completely understandable that Eastern Europe wants to be free of Moscow's grasp. What does this new Russia offer them apart from Creeping Conservatism and a severe repression of the LGBT+ community? But switching allegiances to another Great Power - it's just lurching from one abusive rapist to another.

We're a Western market economy here in Australia and we all of us are getting r*ped. Everyone I know, myself included have barely got our heads above water. Yet the upper crust keeps getting more gilded.

Man, f*ck that system. F*ck Russia but f*ck Washington's macroeconomic rape as well. Ukraine, you run, girl. Run from the Great Powers who want your every hole.

Moscow's more brute-forceful at face value but Washington's 'freedom' aint that free either, girl.

This absolutely unbalanced though. Yes we are somewhat at the behest of the US superpower but you and I can literally sit here and talk shit about Trump or the USA as much as we want. You look at Jake Broe who is in USA and calling for other countries to boycott USA and mobilise essentially overthrow the Trump regime, and you know what we can do tomorrow? We can do it all again. You try to go to Russia and do the same thing there as a Russian re the Putin government. You'd be in a SIZO within a couple of days, after first being beaten to a crisp and suffered sexual abuse threats in some Brateevo-esque police station. And if you scarper then they'll arrest your family.

It's utterly incomparable. Examining or pursuing a relationship with the USA is not comparable to rolling up to the extinction plate in front of the Russian gallows. No nation, no people, no power on this planet is innocent of atrocious actions. Ukraine itself, and without ANY influence from without, are guilty of bad conduct (Poles, Roma, etc). But it's a matter of perspective here dude, including also paying attention to the growth over time. The RF have descended further and further into an abyss of evil. Ukraine continually improved their standing against corruption, including a steep improvement since the 2022 invasion. The USA are just a static problem which tends to just poke in and out when there's some carpetbagging opportunity to cash in on.

Saving Ukraine from Russian agression should not be moderated by our misgivings against other parties attached to the conflict through stance and/or support. This is a fight between an innocent party and a guilty one. The USA have not made Ukraine any more, or less, Ukraine. Ukraine as an entity predates not only Russia, as we've often needed to remind everyone, but it predates the USA too. Ukraine is who needs support. Because those guys are under threat. Those guys are the ones fighting for survival. **** the USA, of course, especially Trump's USA but also **** Biden's USA who were less openly pro-exploitation but were in no way innocent of it.

Ukraine has the sovereign power to make its own decisions. If the Ukrainian people turned around tomorrow and said "actually we love Russia now", I'd have to respect that, no matter how I felt.

My interests in preserving Ukraine's sovereignty far outweigh my disgust at the USA's imperialism and opportunism and mafioso standover tactics. At least, the latter will not change my view on the former. And anybody wishing to risk Ukraine's sovereignty for some pariochial bar-room argument rant about some other place, is sacrificing the lives of innocent people RIGHT THIS MINUTE for the sake of a less immediate risk.

This ****ing shits me tbh. It reminds me of the "oh woe is me if we piss Putin off he might go nuclear" argument. Ukrainian civilian men, women and children are dying NOW. Their lives are being ruined NOW. Because we MIGHT POSSIBLY suffer if a bunch of dots HAPPEN to get connected. I will NOT sell lives of innocent people RIGHT NOW to mitigate a potential risk that may or may not happen.

Forgive me if I'm off track and it's not on point with your stance. It's what your post prompted. I'm so sorry you barely have you head above water. There's children in Krivy Rih who haven't got their heads above RUBBLE.

****'s sake I need a panadol.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

This absolutely unbalanced though. Yes we are somewhat at the behest of the US superpower but you and I can literally sit here and talk shit about Trump or the USA as much as we want. You look at Jake Broe who is in USA and calling for other countries to boycott USA and mobilise essentially overthrow the Trump regime, and you know what we can do tomorrow? We can do it all again. You try to go to Russia and do the same thing there as a Russian re the Putin government. You'd be in a SIZO within a couple of days, after first being beaten to a crisp and suffered sexual abuse threats in some Brateevo-esque police station. And if you scarper then they'll arrest your family.

It's utterly incomparable. Examining or pursuing a relationship with the USA is not comparable to rolling up to the extinction plate in front of the Russian gallows. No nation, no people, no power on this planet is innocent of atrocious actions. Ukraine itself, and without ANY influence from without, are guilty of bad conduct (Poles, Roma, etc). But it's a matter of perspective here dude, including also paying attention to the growth over time. The RF have descended further and further into an abyss of evil. Ukraine continually improved their standing against corruption, including a steep improvement since the 2022 invasion. The USA are just a static problem which tends to just poke in and out when there's some carpetbagging opportunity to cash in on.

Saving Ukraine from Russian agression should not be moderated by our misgivings against other parties attached to the conflict through stance and/or support. This is a fight between an innocent party and a guilty one. The USA have not made Ukraine any more, or less, Ukraine. Ukraine as an entity predates not only Russia, as we've often needed to remind everyone, but it predates the USA too. Ukraine is who needs support. Because those guys are under threat. Those guys are the ones fighting for survival. ** the USA, of course, especially Trump's USA but also ** Biden's USA who were less openly pro-exploitation but were in no way innocent of it.

Ukraine has the sovereign power to make its own decisions. If the Ukrainian people turned around tomorrow and said "actually we love Russia now", I'd have to respect that, no matter how I felt.

My interests in preserving Ukraine's sovereignty far outweigh my disgust at the USA's imperialism and opportunism and mafioso standover tactics. At least, the latter will not change my view on the former. And anybody wishing to risk Ukraine's sovereignty for some pariochial bar-room argument rant about some other place, is sacrificing the lives of innocent people RIGHT THIS MINUTE for the sake of a less immediate risk.

This ****ing shits me tbh. It reminds me of the "oh woe is me if we piss Putin off he might go nuclear" argument. Ukrainian civilian men, women and children are dying NOW. Their lives are being ruined NOW. Because we MIGHT POSSIBLY suffer if a bunch of dots HAPPEN to get connected. I will NOT sell lives of innocent people RIGHT NOW to mitigate a potential risk that may or may not happen.

Forgive me if I'm off track and it's not on point with your stance. It's what your post prompted. I'm so sorry you barely have you head above water. There's children in Krivy Rih who haven't got their heads above RUBBLE.

****'s sake I need a panadol.

Some good points. I just can't see this as localised action though. I see Great Powers using people just like pawns in chess. I see those children in Krivy Rih as being victims of a much larger game than just Russia invading.

Moscow. Washington. F*ck them both.

 

[Mobbs]

Some good points. I just can't see this as localised action though. I see Great Powers using people just like pawns in chess. I see those children in Krivy Rih as being victims of a much larger game than just Russia invading.

Moscow. Washington. F*ck them both.

I can see it though. Russia invaded Ukraine for Russia's reasons. It's not localised, it's a part of the Dugin plan for Russia. It's a Belarussian action, a Georgian action, a Chechen action, a Bashkir action, a Bessarabian action, an Abkhazian action, an Adjaran action, the list goes on. It's part of a European action - and Putin's RF is responsible. The USA is complicit only in their lack of action.

Continually suggesting Ukraine's innocent position as the victim, as though they are a pawn, just feels like ignorant bigotry. They are people, not pawns. They make their decisions - they could embrace Russia but they don't. Perhaps they know something more than you do? Ukraine may well end up being our saviours as defenders of freedom against the USA in a future conflict, as they are the only ones clearly defending the free world right now while everyone else is all "this calls for serious discussion".

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Continually suggesting Ukraine's innocent position as the victim, as though they are a pawn, just feels like ignorant bigotry.

On this - it's called a metaphor, and you can see it in writings the world over as a universal literary device.

I mean no harm by using it.

 

[Mobbs]

On this - it's called a metaphor, and you can see it in writings the world over as a universal literary device.

I mean no harm by using it.

Ok so to clarify more, the thing I'm chalenging here is the notion that Russia only has an issue with Ukraine due to outside influences taking root in Ukraine. That could be natural westernisation, EU membership, global exploitation company investment, US support through the democratisation process post 1989, or whatever else. And of course the endless NATO argument. I don't buy it. Russia has its sights on Ukraine for various reasons. All are probably true, though we can argue over which are foremost. We have imperialism, natural resources, linkmanship to resource trade, nostalgia, ancient gripes, larger domination goals, restoration of soviet territory but under tsarist governance, culture clash eg anti-woke wallowing (refer Pussy Riot etc), and this claimed threat from NATO. But these are Russian choices of stance to make. Nobody's forcing their hands.

Russia didn't embrace the tech explosion, didn't pursue innovation, didn't invest in keeping up with the Jones. They stuck with one old tried and true way to expand wealth: climb a tree and look for a neighbour who has wealth, climb back down and invade that neighbour, take their stuff. They've got away with it a number of times (thanks Obama, for instance). And now there is actually pushback.

Whenever I see it claimed that Western influence has turned Ukraine into a danger to Russia, I see it as an accusation that Ukraine would not have sought freedom from Russian influence, without this alternate influence. This is untrue. Ukraine has suffered from its connections with Russia for eons. They were served up in wars on behalf of the USSR, they were violated through the Holodomor genocide, they have suffered displacement under both tsarist and soviet times (my late Ukrainian-American wife was a descendant of pogrom refugees). When Russia arrived to congratulate Ukraine on freeing itself from Nazi control, Ukraine told them basically "you can **** off too, you're barely any better" and Russia responded by creating mass disinformation trying to align Ukraine with the Nazis whom Ukraine suffered more from than Russia did.

Ukraine want distinct separation from Russia because Ukraine want distinct separation from Russia. Not because someone tells them they should wanrt it. Disagreeing with this reality, is to align oneself with the Russian imperative of dissolving Ukraine entirely.

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Ok so to clarify more, the thing I'm chalenging here is the notion that Russia only has an issue with Ukraine due to outside influences taking root in Ukraine. That could be natural westernisation, EU membership, global exploitation company investment, US support through the democratisation process post 1989, or whatever else. And of course the endless NATO argument. I don't buy it. Russia has its sights on Ukraine for various reasons. All are probably true, though we can argue over which are foremost. We have imperialism, natural resources, linkmanship to resource trade, nostalgia, ancient gripes, larger domination goals, restoration of soviet territory but under tsarist governance, culture clash eg anti-woke wallowing (refer Pussy Riot etc), and this claimed threat from NATO. But these are Russian choices of stance to make. Nobody's forcing their hands.

Russia didn't embrace the tech explosion, didn't pursue innovation, didn't invest in keeping up with the Jones. They stuck with one old tried and true way to expand wealth: climb a tree and look for a neighbour who has wealth, climb back down and invade that neighbour, take their stuff. They've got away with it a number of times (thanks Obama, for instance). And now there is actually pushback.

Whenever I see it claimed that Western influence has turned Ukraine into a danger to Russia, I see it as an accusation that Ukraine would not have sought freedom from Russian influence, without this alternate influence. This is untrue. Ukraine has suffered from its connections with Russia for eons. They were served up in wars on behalf of the USSR, they were violated through the Holodomor genocide, they have suffered displacement under both tsarist and soviet times (my late Ukrainian-American wife was a descendant of pogrom refugees). When Russia arrived to congratulate Ukraine on freeing itself from Nazi control, Ukraine told them basically "you can **** off too, you're barely any better" and Russia responded by creating mass disinformation trying to align Ukraine with the Nazis whom Ukraine suffered more from than Russia did.

Ukraine want distinct separation from Russia because Ukraine want distinct separation from Russia. Not because someone tells them they should wanrt it. Disagreeing with this reality, is to align oneself with the Russian imperative of dissolving Ukraine entirely.

Heartfelt perspective on things. Thank you for taking the time to write it. It won't change my view of the US, and I still hope Ukraine dosen't go from under the boot of one arseh*le to being under the boot of another.

But Ukraine's own struggle - what they've put up with thus far in history and what they're going through now - you've illustrated that and you've done it well.

Respect, Mobbs. I mean that.