Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Mobbs]

Nice little burn from Ursula con der Leyen the other day.
View attachment vonderleyen.mp4

 

[OneGreatClub]

Enough already you butcher

 

[Aussie in exile]

Enough already you butcher

I haven't seen any of our Russian apologists condemn this yet.
I might have a long wait

 

[Mobbs]

I'll condemn it: campaigners.

 

[Zidane98]

I'll condemn it: campaigners.

There is no negotiating with Putin. Europe needs to take on Fuhrer Putin now before we have a repeat of WW2.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Imagine crops grown in this stuff

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Bit more fibre in the diet?

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[Aussie in exile]

I think that confirms that putin has something on donny and we know what that is

 

[CD Xbow]

Article from the Lowry suggesting a democratic Ukraine with the current de facto borders, well protected
frontline and airspace is a better option than the continuing war of attrition. The author assumes the war will continue and assumes the desired degree of safety for Ukraine can be achieved.

A new theory of victory: How Ukraine can fortify and prosper in the age of Trump | Lowy Institute

A democratic Ukraine in the current de facto borders, with a protected frontline and secure skies, is a better option than a continuing war of attrition.

www.lowyinstitute.org

 

[wannabejack]

Article from the Lowry suggesting a democratic Ukraine with the current de facto borders, well protected
frontline and airspace is a better option than the continuing war of attrition. The author assumes the war will continue and assumes the desired degree of safety for Ukraine can be achieved.

A new theory of victory: How Ukraine can fortify and prosper in the age of Trump | Lowy Institute

A democratic Ukraine in the current de facto borders, with a protected frontline and secure skies, is a better option than a continuing war of attrition.

www.lowyinstitute.org

Democracies like Australia have a duty to support Ukraine, a fellow democracy. But they should also do this out of self-interest. Given that the United States has vacated the leadership of the democratic world, a global coalition of the willing to make both the stabilisation of the frontline and the postwar rebuilding of Ukraine possible might well turn out to be the first step to something else altogether: a global alliance of democracies who support each other in a world increasingly threatened by neo-imperialism, be it of the Russian, the Chinese, or the US variety.

 

[Sphynx]

I think that confirms that putin has something on donny and we know what that is

It's absolutely inconceivable a few years ago that the UK and Australia would be hit with trade tariffs and Russia is the only one who wasn't (despite their existing energy sanctions and oligarch laws)

Australia is the only one of their Allies to provide combat troops to all of the last 5 major wars the US has been involved in (WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan)

The UK skipped Vietnam, Sth Korea was under Japanese control in WW2. NZ didn't go to Iraq. Canada didn't go to Vietnam and Iraq etc.

Not to mention AUKUS, 5-Eyes alliance etc. Not to mention Aus was also there in the trenches of France and Belgium with the US in WW1 also....

Bloody mental in isolation.

If there were any get out of jail free cards Trump could have played to the American people, it could have been Aus and the UK with 0% tariffs. Particularly seeing as both give more to the US than they receive via trade anyway, particularly with the support on historical defence..... it would have been such an easy sell.


What a huge diplomatic own goal.


As you said, I'm sure we will find out in the passing of time or history, what Putin and Russia have/had on him.

 

[wannabejack]

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 6, 2025

The rate of Russian advances in Ukraine has been steadily declining since November 2024, due to successful Ukrainian counterattacks.

www.understandingwar.org

The rate of Russian advances in Ukraine has been steadily declining since November 2024, in part due to successful Ukrainian counterattacks in eastern Ukraine.

 

[Aussie in exile]

It's absolutely inconceivable a few years ago that the UK and Australia would be hit with trade tariffs and Russia is the only one who wasn't (despite their existing energy sanctions and oligarch laws)

Australia is the only one of their Allies to provide combat troops to all of the last 5 major wars the US has been involved in (WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan)

The UK skipped Vietnam, Sth Korea was under Japanese control in WW2. NZ didn't go to Iraq. Canada didn't go to Vietnam and Iraq etc.

Not to mention AUKUS, 5-Eyes alliance etc. Not to mention Aus was also there in the trenches of France and Belgium with the US in WW1 also....

Bloody mental in isolation.

If there were any get out of jail free cards Trump could have played to the American people, it could have been Aus and the UK with 0% tariffs. Particularly seeing as both give more to the US than they receive via trade anyway, particularly with the support on historical defence..... it would have been such an easy sell.


What a huge diplomatic own goal.


As you said, I'm sure we will find out in the passing of time or history, what Putin and Russia have/had on him.

The UK had SAS troops in Vietnam helping the Americans behind the scenes, but they didn't sent any regular soldiers to there as their PM at the time Harold Wilson said it's a war that can't be won by us and the US and how right was he to say that as it was humiliation for us and the US to lose to a 3rd world country despite the spin that came out of Washington and Canberra, we and the US were defeated.

 

[Aussie in exile]

There is no negotiating with Putin. Europe needs to take on Fuhrer Putin now before we have a repeat of WW2.

This won't please our Russian apologists

Zelensky confirms Ukraine troops active in Russia's Belgorod region

Ukraine's operations in a second region in Russia are explicitly acknowledged for the first time.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[barreness]

Imagine crops grown in this stuff

That plus the depleted uranium shells form the UK, cluster munition from the US. How to cook peak agricultural land 101

 

[barreness]

Source; Some Ukrainian posting on telegram

 

[barreness]

Article from the Lowry suggesting a democratic Ukraine with the current de facto borders, well protected
frontline and airspace is a better option than the continuing war of attrition. The author assumes the war will continue and assumes the desired degree of safety for Ukraine can be achieved.

A new theory of victory: How Ukraine can fortify and prosper in the age of Trump | Lowy Institute

A democratic Ukraine in the current de facto borders, with a protected frontline and secure skies, is a better option than a continuing war of attrition.

www.lowyinstitute.org

A decent article, if a touch Orwellian in "redefining victory conditions"

Russia won't accept a peace deal if it means any foreign forces in Ukraine though. This was the final ultimatum before the full scale invasion, they're not going to back down(mostly) from that when they are winning

The first draft treaty, titled "Agreement on Measures to Ensure the Security of the Russian Federation and Member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization",[23] included the following provisions, among others:

• that NATO members commit to no further enlargement of the alliance, including in particular to Ukraine
• that NATO deploy no forces or weapons in countries that joined the alliance after May 1997[a]
• a ban on deployment of intermediate-range missiles in areas where they could reach the other side's territory
• a ban on any NATO military activity in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, or Central Asia
• language on consultative mechanisms, such as the NATO–Russia Council, and on the establishment of a hotline

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2021_Russian_ultimatum_to_NATO

 

[barreness]

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 6, 2025

The rate of Russian advances in Ukraine has been steadily declining since November 2024, due to successful Ukrainian counterattacks.

www.understandingwar.org

The rate of Russian advances in Ukraine has been steadily declining since November 2024, in part due to successful Ukrainian counterattacks in eastern Ukraine.
View attachment 2276167

Ignoring the Kursk retake obvs.

It's fair to say they have slowed in the south east, the weather? I think a proper peace treaty isn't that far away, Odessa is a bridge too far unless the Americans abandon Ukraine

 

[CD Xbow]

President Z claims two Chinese troops captured in Ukraine out of a group of 6 fighting together. Not sure what happened to the other 4, possibly victims of Mr Putin's meatgrinder. It will be interesting if this is confirmed and the details emerge.

Zelenskyy says Chinese soldiers captured fighting alongside Russians in Ukraine

In a post on the encrypted messaging service Telegram, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy claims to have information about "significantly more Chinese citizens" serving in Russian military units, and says he has ordered his foreign minister to contact Beijing.

www.abc.net.au

I'm sure the PRC will say these are private citizens and nothing to do with the government to maintain plausible deniability. I'm equally sure that they would be there only with their governments permission.

 

[wannabejack]

Ignoring the Kursk retake obvs.

It's fair to say they have slowed in the south east, the weather? I think a proper peace treaty isn't that far away, Odessa is a bridge too far unless the Americans abandon Ukraine

The report does say “The rate of Russian advances in Ukraine”.

Anyway, Korean soldiers were needed to take back russian land.
The mighty russia needed foreign soldiers to return invaded land back to them. How can russia complain about Ukraine having foreign troops in Ukraine.

The 225th's experience is representative of the broader trajectory of North Korean combat performance in Kursk, Shyriaiev said, with North Koreans quickly becoming the leading element of Russia's attacks.
"They were always used in assault, and the Russians are then used to secure the ground that the Koreans have taken," he said.

 

[Aussie in exile]

A decent article, if a touch Orwellian in "redefining victory conditions"

Russia won't accept a peace deal if it means any foreign forces in Ukraine though. This was the final ultimatum before the full scale invasion, they're not going to back down(mostly) from that when they are winning

The first draft treaty, titled "Agreement on Measures to Ensure the Security of the Russian Federation and Member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization",[23] included the following provisions, among others:

• that NATO members commit to no further enlargement of the alliance, including in particular to Ukraine
• that NATO deploy no forces or weapons in countries that joined the alliance after May 1997[a]
• a ban on deployment of intermediate-range missiles in areas where they could reach the other side's territory
• a ban on any NATO military activity in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, or Central Asia
• language on consultative mechanisms, such as the NATO–Russia Council, and on the establishment of a hotline

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2021_Russian_ultimatum_to_NATO

What has foreign forces being in Ukraine to do with Russia?

 

[barreness]

The report does say “The rate of Russian advances in Ukraine”.

Anyway, Korean soldiers were needed to take back russian land.
The mighty russia needed foreign soldiers to return invaded land back to them. How can russia complain about Ukraine having foreign troops in Ukraine.

The 225th's experience is representative of the broader trajectory of North Korean combat performance in Kursk, Shyriaiev said, with North Koreans quickly becoming the leading element of Russia's attacks.
"They were always used in assault, and the Russians are then used to secure the ground that the Koreans have taken," he said.

I mean, NK and Russia have a mutual defence treaty, that's kinda the point

It's not that they can or can't complain about foreign troops. "Putin is embarrassed, they required Korean etc etc", these things are appeals to emotion and mean nothing

Russia just won't sign a peace deal without a explicit ban on foreign troops in the country, like in the constitution

 

[barreness]

What has foreign forces being in Ukraine to do with Russia?

That's what this entire war is about