Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[CD Xbow]

Allegedly HTS have given the Russians their marching orders - leave Tartus

Busy week, we had the coup that wasn't in SK and now a decades long and seemingly well entrenched autocrat gets rolled. What's next?

 

[treeebeard]

. What's next?

Israel jumps in for a land grab

 

[tricknologist]

To be clear, I do not 'support' the Syrian rebels/ISIS in any way. That should go without saying, but so often people try and twist narratives in these threads so I want to make it clear at the outset.

But I do want to point out; the rapid collapse of the Assad dictatorship has been an incredibly illuminating situation in regards to exposing all the pro-Russian accounts for not dealing in reality and only pushing Russian propaganda, despite the actual circumstances unfolding. These are the same accounts that I've seen posted on BigFooty as 'reputable sources' over and over again in the last few years by pro-Putin/anti-Ukrainian types. Often by people who will make fun of others for believing the "mainstream media" or US/EU/Ukrainian sources.

Meanwhile, those same pro-Russian accounts and pundits over the last two weeks have been posting non-stop copium about how Russia and Syria will "destroy" the rebels, etc.

IE;

View attachment 2183989


And yet, here we are.

I find it fascinating.

Assad's downfall was typical for a dictator. No loyalty from the populous (just a guess but gassing civilians, barrel bombing hospitals, and instituting mass torture programs probably didn't help) and stacked the military with incompetent officials because every dictator fears the state's monopoly on violence being turned against them. It's bad for Russia because, over the past year, several of their allies have either been decapitated or exposed (Axis of Resistance very quickly turned into the Axis of Zero Resistance) and they've been powerless to stop it. But vatnoids don't understand any of this because they lack basic political comprehension.

 

[Andre]

Think it's a bit of both. If Russia wasn't spread thin due to the war on Ukraine they could have covered for a weakened Hezbollah. Also works vice versa. The planets have aligned in both Hezbollah weakened and Russia spread thin due to the war on Ukraine giving the rebels the chance to lay siege.

It’s especially great karma, as Russia helped Iran / Hezbollah with training for attacking Israel (who were neutral on Russia, not supporting sanctions etc). Which you can trace to an enraged Israel weakening Iran / Hezbollah to the point Russia will either lose their base in Syria or have to move significant resources to hold, with Assad on the way out. Iran is further weakened, which makes things worse for both them and Russia. All good things for Ukraine. Russia reaping what they helped sow.

 

[Zidane98]

Happened quick. Putin must fear a similar ending.

 

[Zidane98]

Allegedly HTS have given the Russians their marching orders - leave Tartus

Busy week, we had the coup that wasn't in SK and now a decades long and seemingly well entrenched autocrat gets rolled. What's next?

Putin's new motto:

#autocratlivesmatter #ALM

 

[Zidane98]

After █████ met with Zelensky wearing a blue jacket with a yellow tie.

This must sting for Vlad with his puppet in Syria ousted.

 

[IlovethePies]

US proxies (the Syrian Democratic Forces) are playing a major role in the coalition of forces that have overthrown Assad.
The US also has about 900 troops in Syria, there since about 2016 with the explicit purpose of stealing Syrian oil.

The US, along with Turkey - its ally in NATO (who has its own strategic interests in Syria) - have taken advantage of the current situation to revive their regime change operation (dating back to 2011) against Assad.

They have succeeded, via their proxies, due to the drastic weakening of Hezbollah, and the absorption of Russian resources in Ukraine.

This is yet another chapter in the ongoing attempt by US imperialism to reorganise the Middle East in accordance with its own interests, and to intensify the encirclement of Russia.

The fact that discussion on the situation in Syria is taking place on this thread indicates that everyone here recognises that the events of Syria are intimately connected to the war in Ukraine.

But it has nothing to do with "karma" for Putin's previous sins, and even less with the advance of "freedom and democracy". It is all about one thing: the drive of US imperialism to encircle, and choke off Russia from its trade routes, supply chains etc, and - in combination with the ongoing war in Ukraine - overthow the Putin government.

The Putin government is an obstacle to the US and NATO powers, because it hinders them from seizing control of all the vast mineral and natural resources located within Russia's borders.

 

[IlovethePies]

^To make the connection clearer: Israel is the ally of the US not just in the Middle East, but also in its war against Russia. Israel is driving the rearrangement of the Middle East and Central Asia according to the needs of US imperialism.

Currently in Georgia, protestors backed by the US and NATO are working to get rid of the elected Georgian government. This is because the current government party - Georgian Dream - is not sufficiently pro NATO. It seeks out a balance between Russia and the EU.

But the US and NATO are demanding that Georgia should totally cut any economic/political links with Russia, and become another front line state in their war against Russia.

Just look on a map. Syria under US/NATO control, Turkey (NATO) and then Georgia - a stranglehold on Russia.

All of these conflicts are connected.

 

[jatz14]

Russia just lost their strategic connection between Russia and Africa.
Russia just lost their greatest unhindered access to the Mediterranean.

These are really bad strategically for Russia, and they did almost nothing to stop it, because they cannot.
Fighting in Ukraine has degraded Russia's military to the point, they cannot support their strategic interests anywhere else.

 

[jatz14]

I’ve always been a bit confused about this war because I have a mate who thinks Putin had no choice but to invade …. Something about a proxy war by usa ….. not sure what his specific reasoning for that is but I’ve seen it been brought up a few times

US = bad.

Russia = shining light against the evils of Western capitalism.

Ergo ipso facto.

If it looks like Russia actually did something that was not nice, then it was really Americas fault.

Requiring evidence, proof or logic to support this shows you are a sheeple.

 

[Visions]

To be clear, I do not 'support' the Syrian rebels/ISIS in any way. That should go without saying, but so often people try and twist narratives in these threads so I want to make it clear at the outset.

But I do want to point out; the rapid collapse of the Assad dictatorship has been an incredibly illuminating situation in regards to exposing all the pro-Russian accounts for not dealing in reality and only pushing Russian propaganda, despite the actual circumstances unfolding. These are the same accounts that I've seen posted on BigFooty as 'reputable sources' over and over again in the last few years by pro-Putin/anti-Ukrainian types. Often by people who will make fun of others for believing the "mainstream media" or US/EU/Ukrainian sources.

Meanwhile, those same pro-Russian accounts and pundits over the last two weeks have been posting non-stop copium about how Russia and Syria will "destroy" the rebels, etc.

IE;

View attachment 2183989


And yet, here we are.

I find it fascinating.

No different to the useful idiots who after the Ukrainian counter attack in Kharkiv in 2022 were adamant it was just a minor blip, and that Russian elite reinforcements were already on the way to stop the offensive in its tracks.
A few weeks later Ukraine had moved 90km forward, liberated 12,000 square kms of territory including Kupyansk, Izyum and were over the Oskil river chasing the backs of the fleeing Russian 4th Guard Tanks Division....
We were then told it was a "feint"

Speaking of the useful idiots and pundits you refer to....

Maybe missed this.

The terrorists in Syria trying to stage a coupe will undoubtedly be squashed… eventually just like last time.

You know that the reason that the terrorist group is being supported by Israel & the US is to try to cut off Iran from supporting Lebanon & Palestine yeah?

This has aged well since it was posted six days ago.

Please give us a timeline Val on when this coup will undoubtedly be squashed???????

 

[Visions]

Russia just lost their strategic connection between Russia and Africa.
Russia just lost their greatest unhindered access to the Mediterranean.

These are really bad strategically for Russia, and they did almost nothing to stop it, because they cannot.
Fighting in Ukraine has degraded Russia's military to the point, they cannot support their strategic interests anywhere else.

This is Russia winning.

Waiting for them to blame Assad's downfall on Ukraine somehow.

You know it's coming.....

 

[Visions]

US = bad.

Russia = shining light against the evils of Western capitalism.

Ergo ipso facto.

If it looks like Russia actually did something that was not nice, then it was really Americas fault.

Requiring evidence, proof or logic to support this shows you are a sheeple.

According to them, socialists protesting against tyrant governments is ok.

But normal citizens protesting again tyrant governments is not ok.

The hypocrisy is spellbinding.

 

[Val Keating]

No different to the useful idiots who after the Ukrainian counter attack in Kharkiv in 2022 were adamant it was just a minor blip, and that Russian elite reinforcements were already on the way to stop the offensive in its tracks.
A few weeks later Ukraine had moved 90km forward, liberated 12,000 square kms of territory including Kupyansk, Izyum and were over the Oskil river chasing the backs of the fleeing Russian 4th Guard Tanks Division....
We were then told it was a "feint"

Speaking of the useful idiots and pundits you refer to....



This has ages well since it was posted six days ago.

Please give us a timeline Val on when this coup will undoubtedly be squashed???????

The sooner the better, obviously, but with Russia in Ukraine and the US giving air cover to the newly rebranded Isis, we’re probably going to see some horrific shit like what happened last time ISIS got a hold of an area, like killing people by running over them with tanks, locking them in cages and burning them alive etc..

I don’t find that amusing, and congratulations on your internet points

A-10s are being spotted in Syria. Here’s how they’re being used.

"The self-defense actions … were in no way related to ongoing operations in and around Aleppo or northwest Syria."

www.defensenews.com

 

[Visions]

Anyone heard from Assad since he fled to Moscow?

You know politicians are cowards when they flee for Russia.

Eg Yanukovych.

Those meetings in Moscow with the Russians, and then in Damascus with the Iranians begging for help went well, didn't they?

Latest speculation is that he's in Abu Dhabi.

The Nazis after WWII had Argentina. Current day genocidal dictators have Abu Dhabi. Putin would already have a residence there.

 

[Val Keating]

Those meetings in Moscow with the Russians, and then in Damascus with the Iranians begging for help went well, didn't they?



The Nazis after WWII had Argentina. Current day genocidal dictators have Abu Dhabi. Putin would already have a residence there.

Wait, do you think Russia will lose the war?

 

[wannabejack]

I’ll have a look at it tonight, thank you

You should get your mate to look at it as well.

 

[Val Keating]

I am not pro Russian or anti Ukrainian at all. I think Ukraine has every right to fight against the invasion.

But I do believe that Putin is willing to destroy the planet by triggering a nuclear holocaust rather than lose the war.

 

[IlovethePies]

I am not pro Russian or anti Ukrainian at all. I think Ukraine has every right to fight against the invasion.

But I do believe that Putin is willing to destroy the planet by triggering a nuclear holocaust rather than lose the war.

You are correct.

And the entire barrage of capitalist media is to claim that Putin is "too gutless, too cowardly" to ever do so.

That is the insanity. They are using the restraint so far exhibited by the Putin regime as proof that he is a coward!

They are actually daring him to use a nuclear weapon.

And the pro-US/NATO posters here are following along, like stampeding sheep.

 

[Mobbs]

Assad has relinquished his post, I guess officially.

"Assad has decided to leave the presidential post and left the country, giving instructions to transfer power peacefully, the Russian Foreign Ministry said." [TASS]

 

[IlovethePies]

Assad has relinquished his post, I guess officially.

"Assad has decided to leave the presidential post and left the country, giving instructions to transfer power peacefully, the Russian Foreign Ministry said." [TASS]

Well, at least he is better than █████. Assad at least is conceding defeat.

 

[Zidane98]

I am not pro Russian or anti Ukrainian at all. I think Ukraine has every right to fight against the invasion.

But I do believe that Putin is willing to destroy the planet by triggering a nuclear holocaust rather than lose the war.

Load of nonsense. He just watched his client state, one where Russia is actually welcome and not told to **** off for good, have its dictator rolled within 11 days.

Syria is an actual ally of Russia whereas Russia will never be an ally of Ukraine for a long, long time.


And guess what - not a nuke fired despite involvement of Turkey in the overthrow, a NATO state nonetheless.


We also seen Russia also refuse to honor its CSTO obligations in order to assist Armenia who sought assistance under mutual defense.



Russia didn't get involved because it couldn't. Everyone knows Putin isn't firing a nuke. Let's not justify the bullshit threats he constantly makes.

I see a end for Putin similar to Assad in the next few years when too many Russians are fed up with him destroying the sovereignty of Russia just to chase his delusional dreams of a new Russian empire.


Putin's done, it's just a matter of how much damage he does both to Russia and to Ukraine.

 

[Zidane98]

Assad has relinquished his post, I guess officially.

"Assad has decided to leave the presidential post and left the country, giving instructions to transfer power peacefully, the Russian Foreign Ministry said." [TASS]

I heard Putin has him sharing an airbnb with Yanukovych.

 

[Zidane98]

You should get your mate to look at it as well.

Anyone who buys (or sells) the crap about NATO isn't changing their mindset by having a look.