Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 5 - thread rules updated

[ferball]

Anyone can build things quickly if they don't care about safety, OHS and wellbeing of their slaves.

Ironic that you crap on about how great Dubai, the UAE and Saudi Arabia are but still post this.

Irrelevant to the discussion.

I know but pointing out hypocrisy is what makes boards like this function!!~!

 

[Aussie in exile]

China seems to have offered to rebuild Ukrainian power and water infrastructure.

They will rebuild most of Ukraine once russia is beaten as a way to access more European markets, and they use free gas and oil that will be getting from eastern russia will help

 

[Zidane98]

Ironic that you crap on about how great Dubai, the UAE and Saudi Arabia are but still post this.



I know but pointing out hypocrisy is what makes boards like this function!!~!

They are not great places at all. You made up that assertion seemingly as a response of criticism to the Khamenei dictatorship.

 

[steve strange]

They will rebuild most of Ukraine once russia is beaten as a way to access more European markets, and they use free gas and oil that will be getting from eastern russia will help

cant see Ukraine coming out of this as a winner

 

[Baldur]

cant see Ukraine coming out of this as a winner

Here is somebody who can see better then you.

 

[steve strange]

Here is somebody who can see better then you.

View attachment 2530212

Dont get it.

 

[Zidane98]

Dont get it.

 

[steve strange]

View attachment 2530217

. Strugglers is right

 

[wannabejack]

China has the power to stop russia's invasion. Instead China's support for russia's is prolonging the war.
The question is will Ukraine rebuild ties with China and accept help from them to rebuild after China’s aid to russia is partly responsible for the destruction.

China’s Broken Promise to Ukraine

Chinese leaders seem to believe protecting their relationship with Putin’s Russia is more important than honoring their obligations to Ukraine and the United Nations.

blog.ucs.org

In December 2013 China and Ukraine issued a joint declaration that says,
“In accordance with UN Security Council Resolution 984 and the Statement of the Chinese Government of 4 December 1994 on Security Assurances to Ukraine, China undertakes unconditionally not to use or threaten to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine as a non-nuclear-weapon state and to provide corresponding security assurances to Ukraine in the event of aggression or threat of aggression against Ukraine using nuclear weapons.”

Not long after Russian forces invaded, President Vladimir Putin raised the alert level of Russia’s nuclear forces. He conducted nuclear weapons exercises on Ukraine’s borders and issued a not-so-thinly veiled nuclear threat to countries that might come to Ukraine’s aid.
When presented with opportunities to offer rhetorical support to Ukraine in the United Nations, Chinese delegates abstained.

 

[barreness]

I am sure the people in the reeducation camps agree wholeheartedly. Or they will be detained for more "reeducation".

Meh, several Islamic foreign reps have checked out the camps and said they weren't bad. Organ harvesting and all that is propaganda. These camps are a thing of the past though, Xianxiang lives under a bit of a surveillance state with metal detectors in public places but you know

US did the global war on terror, Russia levelled Grozny twice. I'm taking the Chinese approach

 

[Aussie in exile]

cant see Ukraine coming out of this as a winner

No i said russia will lose

 

[wannabejack]

...

I said quite the opposite. Do you find it odd that the three(2) countries that pulled out from the recent EU aid package('loan') were the three countries that actually had USSR tanks roll in? Hungary, Slovakia, Czechia. Maybe they have a more credible analysis of the threat than us

.....

Hungary, Slovakia, and Czechia may “have a more credible analysis of the threat” that’s why Hungary, Slovakia, and Czechia are now all active members of NATO. Maybe they are members of NATO so the tanks don't roll in again.

militarnyi article 17 February 2026
Ukraine has already received 4.4 million large-caliber shells under the Czech Initiative program, which accounts for more than 50% of all large-caliber ammunition provided.

This was announced by Czech President Petr Pavel in an interview with Odkryto.

As part of the Czech initiative to purchase ammunition for the Ukrainian Armed Forces in third countries, nearly 4.4 million large-caliber shells have been delivered to Ukraine.

“If we look at the past period, since the initiative was launched, it has delivered about 4 million 400,000 units of large-caliber ammunition to Ukraine. Last year alone, it was almost two million. Without this supply of ammunition, the Armed Forces of Ukraine would not have been able to conduct effective defense, because if you do not have a secure and predictable supply of ammunition, you cannot plan your defense effectively,” he said.

Pavel emphasized that the Czechia not only initiated this project, but also contributed its know-how on how to bring together partners, finances, resources, routes, and logistics to collect ammunition from all over the world, wherever it is available, and deliver them to Ukraine “under reasonable conditions and at reasonable prices in the shortest possible time.”

 

[steve strange]

No i said russia will lose

Define lose

 

[Aussie in exile]

Define lose

Trillions in debt and not enough money from oil revenue to pay off the debt for starters

 

[Zidane98]

Russia is losing, massively.

Putin at this stage should be taking a deal where his Black Sea fleet can operate and a security guarantee on his oil industry in exchange for full withdrawal, war crimes accountability st UN and reparations funded by 210 billion euros of frozen assets.

This is as good as it will get for Vladof Putler.

The longer it goes on the worse it gets and that's a guarantee.

 

[wannabejack]

Define lose

Not win.
russia lost when they couldn’t take Kyiv in 2022. Since then the vatnik definition of a russian “win” has varied.

 

[barreness]

Hungary, Slovakia, and Czechia may “have a more credible analysis of the threat” that’s why Hungary, Slovakia, and Czechia are now all active members of NATO. Maybe they are members of NATO so the tanks don't roll in again.

militarnyi article 17 February 2026
Ukraine has already received 4.4 million large-caliber shells under the Czech Initiative program, which accounts for more than 50% of all large-caliber ammunition provided.

This was announced by Czech President Petr Pavel in an interview with Odkryto.

As part of the Czech initiative to purchase ammunition for the Ukrainian Armed Forces in third countries, nearly 4.4 million large-caliber shells have been delivered to Ukraine.

“If we look at the past period, since the initiative was launched, it has delivered about 4 million 400,000 units of large-caliber ammunition to Ukraine. Last year alone, it was almost two million. Without this supply of ammunition, the Armed Forces of Ukraine would not have been able to conduct effective defense, because if you do not have a secure and predictable supply of ammunition, you cannot plan your defense effectively,” he said.

Pavel emphasized that the Czechia not only initiated this project, but also contributed its know-how on how to bring together partners, finances, resources, routes, and logistics to collect ammunition from all over the world, wherever it is available, and deliver them to Ukraine “under reasonable conditions and at reasonable prices in the shortest possible time.”

Yes I've raised this before. Ukraine's existing guns are soviet era 152mm vs NATO 155mm shells, means they had to get shells from ex warsaw pact regions or possibly India. Was hidden in a lot of secrecy

This doesn't challenge the point that the countries that had USSR tanks roll in are the same countries that don't want to fund another tranche of cash to Ukraine. They explicitly dropped out of paying back this new debt

 

[barreness]

Trillions in debt and not enough money from oil revenue to pay off the debt for starters

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.DOD.TOTL.GD.ZS?locations=RU


You don't want to look at France/Germany/US/Japan

 

[joff]

Russia is losing, massively.

Putin at this stage should be taking a deal where his Black Sea fleet can operate and a security guarantee on his oil industry in exchange for full withdrawal, war crimes accountability st UN and reparations funded by 210 billion euros of frozen assets.

This is as good as it will get for Vladof Putler.

The longer it goes on the worse it gets and that's a guarantee.

Im stating the obvious but this war is goin to set russia back decades the massive loss of men in their prime will also cost decades of recovery

 

[barreness]

Not win.
russia lost when they couldn’t take Kyiv in 2022. Since then the vatnik definition of a russian “win” has varied.

Russia has been pretty clear on victory conditions. NATO/Neutrality, demilitarisation, denazify. The only thing that changes is the territorial claims that grow the longer this war goes on.

Ukraine has gone from popping champagne corks at the '22 Istanbul agreements, to '91 borders and a Crimean beach party, to pls ceasefire on current lines. Only a matter of time until they give up on Donestk, will Russia accept that when they do though?

 

[barreness]

Russia is losing, massively.

Putin at this stage should be taking a deal where his Black Sea fleet can operate and a security guarantee on his oil industry in exchange for full withdrawal, war crimes accountability st UN and reparations funded by 210 billion euros of frozen assets.

This is as good as it will get for Vladof Putler.

The longer it goes on the worse it gets and that's a guarantee.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...-year-ukrainian-intelligence-says-2025-11-14/
Skibitskyi said Russian forces are firing between 200 and 250 glide bombs every day. Last month, the daily average was about 170, according to data from the defence ministry.

"It is possible to shoot them down, but the quantity of these aerial bombs produced in the Russian Federation ... is enormous," Skibitskyi said. "This is a threat. A threat that will require us to respond appropriately."

So they've signed a deal that may or may not deliver some bombs in some years. Less than a weeks worth of current Russian attacks, that'll fix it

 

[barreness]

Just to go about the economics. There is an odd one out

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.KD?locations=RU-UA-EE-FI-GB-GE

 

[steve strange]

Im stating the obvious but this war is goin to set russia back decades the massive loss of men in their prime will also cost decades of recovery

Doubt it. Europe is an economic basket case and cannot agree on anything

 

[steve strange]

Not win.
russia lost when they couldn’t take Kyiv in 2022. Since then the vatnik definition of a russian “win” has varied.

How many troops were required to take kiev ?

 

[Wce17]

How many troops were required to take kiev ?

Not as many as Odessa