Opinion We need a rebuild, shortly

[ThePuma #9]

would you say Ash Smith has been valuable? All of these guys still have work to do to show they are best 22.

I agree, none have shown beyond any doubt they are best 22. Yet you dismiss depth as irrelevant or at least players outside the 22 as not valuable.

Using Ash Smith as a reference is pretty heavy handed way to make a point.

Ash Smith is damn lucky to be on our list and will most likely be delisted come the end of the year, he would've been in the conversation of players we were looking at delisting last year to draft more players, and he would be at the bottom of the heap at the moment.

None of the players above are in that equation as it stands, in fact two of them were in our best 22 for our first game with a healthy list and you might find Hutchings in there as well soon enough.

Depth is valuable to a list, it takes more than 22 players to win a cup.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Aside from Waterman being the additional IM that WC will acquire, another young mid that should be brought in should be the eventual replacement for Rosa. A zippy line-breaking wingman, in Stephen Hill/Isaac Smith mould, would nicely compliment Gaff's hard-running accumulative style on the other wing. As Rosa ages and this younger wingman steps up to consistent AFL level, I'd like to see Rosa's role change into more of a HBF with the occasional chop-out on the wing as a rotation.

I reckon Yeo has been earmarked as that player. Run and carry with a bit of grunt.

 

[dajesmac]

Rawlings labelled him as an eventual 'inside/outside midfielder'.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I agree, none have shown beyond any doubt they are best 22. Yet you dismiss depth as irrelevant or at least players outside the 22 as not valuable.

I don't dismiss depth as irrelevant. I'm just saying these guys need to show more before we start patting ourselves on the back for drafting them.

Using Ash Smith as a reference is pretty heavy handed way to make a point.

Why? He's been our list for five years - that's was the benchmark you set for these other guys.

The question is: if they match Smith's contribution, hanging around as a fringe player for five years, would that constitute being "a valuable player"? I don't think it would. And that's why I think these guys will need to do a bit more than that.

None of the players above are in that equation as it stands, in fact two of them were in our best 22 for our first game with a healthy list and you might find Hutchings in there as well soon enough.

Don't fudge it, champ.

How many of them are actually best 22?

Depth is valuable to a list, it takes more than 22 players to win a cup.

OK, wow. I never looked at it like that before.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Rawlings labelled him as an eventual 'inside/outside midfielder'.

Like I said, run and carry with a bit of grunt. Hopefully an upgrade on Rosa.

 

[dajesmac]

Like I said, run and carry with a bit of grunt. Hopefully an upgrade on Rosa.

Ideally he'd be a regular on-ball rotation as opposed to being restricted to a wing - like Rosa.

A very handy bonus in the offseason.

 

[tesseract]

Even if we cull the guys currently outside the team and Waters never recovers, we've still got Hurn, Yeo, Carter and Bennell. How many small/medium defenders do we need?

I also think that post-Glass, Schofield or perhaps Colledge could play as a mobile third tall. They're taller than medium, obviously, but would still give us some run.

Have we given up on Blayne Wilson?

West Coast have the quantity but not the reliable quality. I expect that a fair number from this group to be among the cull-worthy or considered depth. The quality that WC have are unreliable due to being injury-prone.

Not sold on Carter yet. His lack of pace may be an issue. I see him as Butler-like, in that he reads the play well but will be limited due to his lack of pace. Really nippy FP's may burn him.

Not sold on Bennell either - has plenty to prove.

My view is open to change if Carter or Bennell steps up and makes the BP role their own.


Schofield's height, pace and agility make him ideal for the third tall role. He slots straight back in as the third tall post Glass.

Colledge is an option that could be tested, especially if he's not getting a look-in at a midfield role. But he's not another pacy defender in the Yeo mould, which I'd like to see WC add to, nor the defensive brick wall that is Hurn. He's a tweener that has neither of these two qualities, and that hurts his chances.

My concern is more the medium/small defenders rather than the third tall role in which Schofield seemingly walks back into.

Blayne Wilson is as slow as a wet week. Plays tall and is defensively ok. He's in contention for a third tall role. Depth.

 

[tesseract]

I reckon Yeo has been earmarked as that player. Run and carry with a bit of grunt.

That's quite possible. Though do WC see Yeo the midfielder as a wingman/receiver or as an injection of pace into the centre square? We'll see.

 

[Ian Dargie]

That's quite possible. Though do WC see Yeo the midfielder as a wingman/receiver or as an injection of pace into the centre square? We'll see.

That's why he's an upgrade rather than a direct replacement.

 

[ThePuma #9]

I don't dismiss depth as irrelevant. I'm just saying these guys need to show more before we start patting ourselves on the back for drafting them.

O.k, they need to show more, i still think it looks like they did a good job turning the list over with late draft picks and rookie selections, some could turn out to be very handy players.

Why? He's been our list for five years - that's was the benchmark you set for these other guys.

As far as i'm concerned if he was out of contract last year then he would have been shown the door. The fact players like Dalziell and Morton were not is one of the reasons he got a reprieve but yes, he has been on the list 5 years.

The question is: if they match Smith's contribution, hanging around as a fringe player for five years, would that constitute being "a valuable player"? I don't think it would. And that's why I think these guys will need to do a bit more than that.

No it wouldn't. However under the old reign players getting contract extensions and the list hardly being turned over was the norm.
I doubt any players will be on our list for 5 years now unless they have shown development and skills over the duration.

Don't fudge it, champ. How many of them are actually best 22?

Back to the 22 again, i made the point of a few of them making the 22 on the weekend and Hutchings possibly making way into the side as positives and valuable to our side. Why do they need to be "best 22"

On the weekend Simo decided that for that game that 2 of them were. Next weekend it may be 3, it may be none. The fact is they played, contributed to a win and thus were valuable. Whether they are permanent 22 is irrelevant.

OK, wow. I never looked at it like that before.

Sarcasm, awesome.

Always happy to be broken down and dissected by the brilliant seer that is Ian Dargie.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Back to the 22 again, i made the point of a few of them making the 22 on the weekend and Hutchings possibly making way into the side as positives and valuable to our side. Why do they need to be "best 22"

Because being best 22 is how we should really divine value.

It's not enough to be picked when we have injuries. It's about demanding selection when we're up and running.

Last year, Dalziell played 17 games, Sheppard played 13 and Smith played 12. So there were plenty of weekends when they were in the 22. The question is, were they best 22?

On the weekend Simo decided that for that game that 2 of them were. Next weekend it may be 3, it may be none. The fact is they played, contributed to a win and thus were valuable. Whether they are permanent 22 is irrelevant.

Does the same apply to Smith, Sheppard and Dalziell when they played last year? They played, so it's irrelevant to note that they weren't best 22?

I would say it's entirely relevant. Likewise, Sinclair isn't best 22 and will be back on the rookie list at some point. Bennell was good but is fringe. Same goes for Hutchings.

Sarcasm, awesome.

If you're easily impressed.

Always happy to be broken down and dissected by the brilliant seer that is Ian Dargie.

Happy to help, champ.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Rebuild not quite complete but at least we are heading in the right direction. New coach, a lot of dead wood removed last season. We can cover the retirement of Cox in a couple of years. We have Glass covered with Brown taking his KPP role. Final piece of the puzzle would be adding to that midfield and maybe a small crumbing forward to support our talls and LeCras.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Rebuild not quite complete but at least we are heading in the right direction. New coach, a lot of dead wood removed last season. We can cover the retirement of Cox in a couple of years. We have Glass covered with Brown taking his KPP role. Final piece of the puzzle would be adding to that midfield and maybe a small crumbing forward to support our talls and LeCras.

I plan to rebuild my house this week.

I'm getting some new carpet and painting one of the rooms.

 

[dajesmac]

Within 2-3 years this could be our midfield brigade:

Selwood
Yeo
Sheed
Shuey
Masten
Wellingham
Waterman
Gaff
Rosa

With rotations from LeCras, Tunbridge, Ellis who will primarily play flanking roles.

The talent is there although we need one or two of this list to become premier midfielders. Shuey and Yeo appear to be the most likely in that regard, with Gaff an outside chance and Waterman/Sheed perhaps a little green.

There is certainly skill and pace in that list.

 

[Shupe]

Cripps a potential midfielder? Or has he been pigeon-holed as a HFF?

 

[Matera92]

I plan to rebuild my house this week.

I'm getting some new carpet and painting one of the rooms.

Pfft that's an hours work Block style.

Harden up.

 

[Patron]

Cripps a potential midfielder? Or has he been pigeon-holed as a HFF?

Small, not that good a kick. Don't see him as a mid at all.

 

[dajesmac]

Cripps a potential midfielder? Or has he been pigeon-holed as a HFF?

Small, not that good a kick. Don't see him as a mid at all.

He's a solid enough clearance player. However I think a high half forward role is probably as close as he'll get to our midfield if we have a fit 22.

It's a good idea to develop versatility for that reason alone - injuries. If we see injuries like we did last year Cripps may need to be called upon to fill the gap in the rotation.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Pfft that's an hours work Block style.

Harden up.

Are you saying it's not a rebuild?

 

[Matera92]

Are you saying it's not a rebuild?

I just want some wow factor from you.