We OVERATE or players

[CrowCro]

I think we have to be realist. In my opinion we have overated our midfielders for far too long. Fortunately for adelaide we have had a solid back half that have provided most of our teams runs for the last five years. Teams have alwayd had run ons against Adelaide in the midfield and its only getting worse. Her are the biggest Culprits:

Symes: People even overate his SANFL performances, yes get possessions but cant even use it in the SANFL thus what are we expecting in AFL. Will have good games every now and then due to effort, but not an AFL player. Worse thing we could have done was use Mattners pick for Symes. Lost this one.

Reilly- Craigy saying he is our best player this year. He is obviously watching the wrong game. The guy is so overated. Does nothing with his touches and turns over the ball way too much. Slow legs for his age already. Is a definite trade this year. Wont get much but maybe a pick in the 40's. I would take it.

Thompson- Good player but overated also. Does not hurt you with his touches and you never know what you will get. I think he is good player but needs better support around him to perform at his optimum. We have too many of the same type players in the midfield. Thompson needs to be in the middle with a team of fast leg players and other champions to get best out of him. Cannot lift a team .

Van Berlo- Ok player but again overated. Should have traded when we could have got something for him. Is one player that may have some trade value but all our players will be undervalued with the team performing so badly.

Doughty- Again highly overated. Cannot have all these guys above in the same team. Only room for a few. They dont take the game on enough and lacks any polish.

SOLUTION- Need to draft a hanful of genuine mids. All four picks need to be genuine mids. 178cm to 185cm.

Dangerfield struggles a little in middle and have heard from people close to team that he runs great in a straight line and straight ahead but struggles a little with the twisting, turning, lateral aspect in the middle of the ground. A great player but needs to give us run out the back half like Mcleod early in the Blighty rein.

Kick the ball to Walker- Value for touches. Dont just bomb to Tippett. What stood out today is the way the Hawks kick. They always out it infront of player allowing them to run onto it. We always put it high and above the players heads.

 

[Sir Vlado]

I think I've overrated our defence. It's simply not as strong as yesteryear and prior to that.

 

[Rave Slave]

The letter 'U' is underrated however and should be seen more.

 

[iamjason]

I think I've overrated our defence. It's simply not as strong as yesteryear and prior to that.

The defence is being needlessly exposed. No defence looks good when the on-ballers are losing clearances and the opposition is moving the ball quickly with little or no pressure.

 

[Mackay train12]

Bock and Rutten duo overated?

 

[StonesThrow]

Nah I think the players you mentioned are pretty fairly rated on here apart from maybe Thompson. They usually cop the most crap and rightly so.

 

[Vader]

I fail to see how ANY of those players have been overrated.

Symes has always had his critics -and always will. What people love about him is his willingness to throw himself into the contest. He's one of the hardest players on our list in that regard. What we hate about him, is his inability to hit the side of a barn by either hand or foot when there's an opponent less than 40m away from him.

Reilly & Thompson have much in common. Both do the bulk of their work in the clearances, where the contest is at its most fierce. It's not surprising that players of this type will have a lower efficiency than those who sit on the outside of the pack and dispose of the ball under minimal pressure. Reilly will NOT be traded, contrary to your personal opinion. These two players are both criminally underrated on BigFooty, not overrated. Without this pair, our outside mids would never even see the football. Without Reilly in particular they'd never see a quick kick out of the centre going deep into our forward 50, giving the forwards a rare chance to beat their opponents one-on-one rather than 3-on-1.

VB has never been rated as an A-grader, on this board or anywhere else. To suggest that someone is overrated implies that they have been rated more highly than they should be. I challenge you to provide a single example of VB being rated higher than is justified by his talent.

PS. I agree that we need to pick up 4 pure midfielders in this draft. My preference would be for 3x hard-nut inside midfielders and 1x flashy/quick outside mid. All of them must be able to kick the ball cleanly when under pressure.

 

[beartoo]

Whatever the reasons--and we all have out pet theories ranging from injuries, lack of match hardness caused by missed pre-seasons and missed training , coaching and training methods--whatever--it is clear that we cannot put a team on the park at present that can match it with the best. Yeah, we beat Brisbane and Freo, but they are both brittle IMO.
We do not have a ruckman in our side that can match it at the clearances or around the ground with the best in the game. The midfield we have at present is 2nd rate.
I only saw the last quarter of the game today, but our midfield got absolutely slaughtered in that quarter. The Hawks mids strolled out of the centre and did as they wished. Our forward line, no matter how many inside fifties, struggles to kick a score. Again, people have theories about why this is so--the majority seems to think it is delivery and it is certainly a factor. But how often do our forwards lead into space? How often do we crumb the ball inside the 50?
The backs are under constant pressure, both from the amount of ball coming down there and the quality from the unpressured delivery coming in.
We will probably win a couple more this year, but don't put the house on beating any of the top sides.
Roll on 2011 and hopefully a fit side. Wouldn't it be great if no one did a knee between now and the opening game in the season proper next year?

 

[Tas]

They have been very good in recent years, everything has gone wrong this year though.

 

[kirky]

What I see is that we have very few players that can do a stab pass - a kick that is low, direct and quick!

We seem to have players that do these loopy sand wedge type of kicks that take forever to get to the next player and so easy to spoil. A number of players are serial offenders.

Thats what pisses me off.

 

[cammo84]

What I see is that we have very few players that can do a stab pass - a kick that is low, direct and quick!

We seem to have players that do these loopy sand wedge type of kicks that take forever to get to the next player and so easy to spoil. A number of players are serial offenders.

Thats what pisses me off.

Symes is the worst culprit for this. I was glad to see him back in the side for the Hawthorn match because we missed his hardness in the contests, but I was soon reminded how frustrating his up-and-under kicking style is. There was one incident early in the match where Stevens was on his own in the corridor, I'm sure Symes spotted him but ignored the option as he knew he couldn't kick it low and direct enough to not cause a turnover.

We need about 3 more David Mackays.

 

[amer]

Reilly has been overrated for aaaaages. That disposal of his. Shocking.

 

[spexau]

IMO our forward line players and back line players are good to very good. Our midfield lets the rest of the team down big time with lack of work rate and hardness at the contest. We win more contested ball and run hard we win games. See matches vs Brisbane and Freo. We don't we get flogged, see every other game of the year. It's a pretty simple problem but not easily fixed. This draft we need to target a quick skillful outside midfielder in the Mackay mould and a hardnut who can compliment Thompson, Sloane and Dangerfield (who needs to play more in the middle). Danger is excellent at feeding the ball out to our mids but none of them have the leg speed to break away from a contest and deliver.

 

[dplggr47]

Reilly has been overrated for aaaaages. That disposal of his. Shocking.

was Reilly ever rated highly? i remember he started to improve back in 2006 or 7...and might've had injury problems, but never really took off.

 

[jenny61_99]

was Reilly ever rated highly? i remember he started to improve back in 2006 or 7...and might've had injury problems, but never really took off.

I think initial thoughts of Reilly (and VB for that matter) was that they both looked likely replacements, and quite promising early, for the vets in Goodwin and Edwards. Unfortunately neither seem to have taken it to the next level. Having said that, Reilly - for the most part this year - has been one of the few players in the midfield that has had a good honest crack. The last couple of weeks have seen him regress, however.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Hard to judge Reilly this year.

Terrible tagger most of the time, skills average, slow runner.

However, he has done a heap of grunt work and won quite a few clearances (even if they haven't been hugely effective they have at least got us moving forward). Possibly better inside than Thompson this year.

However, his deficiencies make him similar to Symes, Doughty, Thompson (though Thompson a class above usually).

A needed 'type' of player but you don't want too many in the side. Sounds harsh but he wouldn't be in my best 22 if all were available come R1 next year. Good depth player and no disgrace though. To be in best 22 he would need to use his kicking to far greater effect to add to his other positives and then that would outweigh negatives enough to make him a valuable B+ player instead of an average grunt.

 

[NTRabbit]

I'll give you a list of the most commonly overrated Crows players on this forum:

Patrick Dangerfield
Phil Davis
Jared Petrenko
Shaun McKernan
Will Young
Andy Otten

Are you sensing the pattern yet? Because just about all of you do it, some blatantly more so than others.

 

[Glenno23]

I'll give you a list of the most commonly overrated Crows players on this forum:

Patrick Dangerfield
Phil Davis
Jared Petrenko
Shaun McKernan
Will Young
Andy Otten

Are you sensing the pattern yet? Because just about all of you do it, some blatantly more so than others.

Taylor Walker is a gun and will kick a bajiliion goals

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I'll give you a list of the most commonly overrated Crows players on this forum:

Patrick Dangerfield
Phil Davis
Jared Petrenko
Shaun McKernan
Will Young
Andy Otten

Are you sensing the pattern yet? Because just about all of you do it, some blatantly more so than others.

I'll give you a list of the most commonly overrated Crows players on the AFC match committee:

Scott Stevens
Michael Doughty
Brent Reilly
Brad Symes
Brett Burton
Trent Hentschel

Are you sensing the pattern yet? Because just about all of them do it, some blatantly more so than others (I'm looking at you, Neil).

 

[Mismatched]

I'll give you a list of the most commonly overrated Crows players on this forum:

Patrick Dangerfield
Phil Davis
Jared Petrenko
Shaun McKernan
Will Young
Andy Otten

Are you sensing the pattern yet? Because just about all of you do it, some blatantly more so than others.

Yeah, I think I sense the pattern, you refuse to grow a pair and put them on the line, instead prefering to sit back and wait till a player has "made it" and until then you will home in on their weaknesses and call them average players. Thus protecting yourself from the riddicule/embarassment should a player, you claimed would be gun, not make it, or if they do, no one gives a shit because the player's made it. Am I close?

 

[NTRabbit]

Yeah, I think I sense the pattern, you refuse to grow a pair and put them on the line, instead prefering to sit back and wait till a player has "made it" and until then you will home in on their weaknesses and call them average players. Thus protecting yourself from the riddicule/embarassment should a player, you claimed would be gun, not make it, or if they do, no one gives a shit because the player's made it. Am I close?

No, you're not even close.

I don't call a player a gun until that player is a gun because, guess what, he's not a gun until he actually is?

How difficult is that simple fact to comprehend?

There are always going to be players with potential, but even the ones with the most still take a hell of a lot of work to get there. Yet this board is famous for calling every potential player, whether that be potential star or potential 150 game solid service type, an "absolute gun" right now, or listing them as a definite A grade player next year on the basis of a few good SANFL games and what Rendell said to the media about each player on draft day.

It's absurd, and it contributes enormously to the heartbreak and heartache that occurs on this board when young players perform to reality rather than expectations - because it's obviously the fault of everyone but their own exceedingly high expectations.

The "Hendo" thread is a perfect example - a 2nd game rookie listed player has a pass mark, but not really outstanding game and he's a future star and Brownlow medal winner with as much upside as Taylor Walker.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

No, you're not even close.

I don't call a player a gun until that player is a gun because, guess what, he's not a gun until he actually is?

How difficult is that simple fact to comprehend?

Do you do your footy tips on Monday too?

 

[NTRabbit]

Do you do your footy tips on Monday too?

Have you ever had tea with the King of Spain?

See, I can ask completely unrelated and irrelevant questions too, mine just wasn't a piss poor attempt to deflect attention, and your irrational bias towards anything under the age of 20 at the expense of fact, reason and logic is well known.

 

[dplggr47]

I'll give you a list of the most commonly overrated Crows players on this forum:

Patrick Dangerfield
Phil Davis
Jared Petrenko
Shaun McKernan
Will Young
Andy Otten

Are you sensing the pattern yet? Because just about all of you do it, some blatantly more so than others.

Dangerfield and Otten have shown enough to be rated highly by the forum.

Petrenko has shown bits and pieces of magic, but goes missing way too often, and is probably a player that has been overrated a bit, but he does have a lot of potential to be great.

Smack is still playing SANFL (despite the injuries to the Crows this year). i think Smack is more on the low-down (forum-wise) at the moment, because he doesn't look like playing AFL any time soon.

i don't know why Will Young is on that list though. i haven't seen much hype about him on this board, let alone overhype.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Have you ever had tea with the King of Spain?

Ashley Giles?

See, I can ask completely unrelated and irrelevant questions too, mine just wasn't a piss poor attempt to deflect attention, and your irrational bias towards anything under the age of 20 at the expense of fact, reason and logic is well known.

Good post, except my comparison was highly relevant. You reserve your judgment until after a player has proven himself one way or the other? Wow. Talk about putting your reputation on the line.

Surely a keen, knowledgeable football observer such as yourself would know how being able to "predict the future" is so intrinsically linked with a teams' success, whether it draft selections, list management, trading, deciding what match up to use, team balance in the 22... that you would be something of an authority on it?

Basically every single aspect of the game involves some level of future judgment and crystal ball gazing. Yes, us fans can sit on our hands and wait and see if we so chose rather than make early judgments. But most of us don't because it would be sooooo boring and no one (present company excepted) want to be known as a Monday's expert.