Welcome Welcome to Richmond Pick 9 - Josh Gibcus

Moppey

Team Captain
Oct 24, 2020
427
1,052
AFL Club
Richmond
The club over a long sustained period now has injuries permitting always gone with the two KPD'S Astbury and Rance and then Astbury and Balta.
Grimes and Broad have played when the back 6 are fit as the two tall lighter more agile versatile players and have performed whatever role we have needed.
The other constant has been Vlastuin.

I just think Miller if he is afl ready is the go, is the best option we have with his height and size and athleticism to play KPD. they won't let him wallow in the magoos if he ready.. His role for the moment would be to play on the bigger forwards and keep them quite no need to get a lot of ball just keep his opponent quiet a bit like Dave Astbury.

The obvious benefit with this is it allows us to play Balta fwd thus covering a total lack of depth in this area and we have the next best kpf option at the club getting games in the role. Again what happens if JR or TL go down for a long period oh wow we manage to maintain our desired structure with a blokw e who has 47 games to his name and has always looked likely in the role.

Its funny no one complained when we played Chol or CC-J up fwd with Tom and Jack and Balta looks a better fwd prospect than either of them ever have.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
9,525
9,177
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
Its funny no one complained when we played Chol or CC-J up fwd with Tom and Jack and Balta looks a better fwd prospect than either of them ever have.
What games were they successful in the above structure?
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
What games were they successful in the above structure?
Chol and CCJ 18 games between them last year, so of course that was the structure in 18 odd games. Both played forward/ruck. I'm sure we won games and lost games with that structure, I would suggest our success or lack of it last year had something to do with being smashed by injury and a bit of fatigue, not because those two played.

But they are average forwards is the point, be nice to find a more potent one.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
9,525
9,177
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
Chol and CCJ 18 games between them last year, so of course that was the structure in 18 odd games. Both played forward/ruck. I'm sure we won games and lost games with that structure, I would suggest our success or lack of it last year had something to do with being smashed by injury and a bit of fatigue, not because those two played.

But they are average forwards is the point, be nice to find a more potent one.
That’s not the question I asked though.
What games did they impact where one of them was playing up forward with Tom and Riewoldt and impacted in these positions?

Discount the random games they played ruck or relieving ruck. With Soldo back that is not an option for a player moving forward.

Games where CCJ and Soldo impacted as forwards with Tom and Jack in the side (and bonus points if Dusty was also playing and impacting up forward).

Happy for those that believe it worked to point to the multitude of games where this happened and I’ll happily admit I was wrong.

I would say these games would have been few and far between. Hence the reason three talls next year won’t be utilised.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
That’s not the question I asked though.
What games did they impact where one of them was playing up forward with Tom and Riewoldt and impacted in these positions?

Discount the random games they played ruck or relieving ruck. With Soldo back that is not an option for a player moving forward.

Games where CCJ and Soldo impacted as forwards with Tom and Jack in the side (and bonus points if Dusty was also playing and impacting up forward).

Happy for those that believe it worked to point to the multitude of games where this happened and I’ll happily admit I was wrong.

I would say these games would have been few and far between. Hence the reason three talls next year won’t be utilised.
We used it in 18 out of 23 games, so it stands to reason that it was used both successfully and unsuccessfully.
It was also used in 2020 where Chol, Lynch and Jack were used together pretty successfully.

The difference is, Chol played pretty deep. If we play a third tall as I would like to see, it is not one like Chol, playing deep, but more the roaming mobile CHF that Jack used to play, who gets up to the wings and back to the 50m. Let Lynch do the bullocking inside 50m and Jack go where ever his footy brain takes him.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
9,525
9,177
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
We used it in 18 out of 23 games, so it stands to reason that it was used both successfully and unsuccessfully.
It was also used in 2020 where Chol, Lynch and Jack were used together pretty successfully.

The difference is, Chol played pretty deep. If we play a third tall as I would like to see, it is not one like Chol, playing deep, but more the roaming mobile CHF that Jack used to play, who gets up to the wings and back to the 50m. Let Lynch do the bullocking inside 50m and Jack go where ever his footy brain takes him.
What we’re the games where it was used successfully? Specifically?

Where one of those guys was playing primarily as a tall forward with both Lynch and Jack?

Not as a ruck. And with both Jack and Lynch in the side. And we did well in those games?

No one can seem to answer this.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
What we’re the games where it was used successfully? Specifically?

Where one of those guys was playing primarily as a tall forward with both Lynch and Jack?

Not as a ruck. And with both Jack and Lynch in the side. And we did well in those games?

No one can seem to answer this.
Because it would take trawling through results sides etc.

We did not play a game with 3 primary talls, but we played plenty where Chol in particular played forward when he wasn't in the ruck or on the bench.
The third tall being a ruck/forward doesn't work for me either, because they are too immobile. If Balta or Miller play that role, then it would be vastly different because they are as quick as anyone on the field and strong on the deck, Balta in particular. We would not be top heavy and far more dynamic.

I would not even mind Gibcus playing that role if he is going well in the VFL just to give us less predicability going forward.
 

boxxie2022

All Australian
Nov 28, 2021
855
2,075
Gold Coast
AFL Club
Richmond
What we’re the games where it was used successfully? Specifically?

Where one of those guys was playing primarily as a tall forward with both Lynch and Jack?

Not as a ruck. And with both Jack and Lynch in the side. And we did well in those games?

No one can seem to answer this.

The only games I remember Chol/CCJ playing fwd was when one of Tom or Jack were out. I don’t think I can recall to often he did play there alongside the 2 of them. May have floated fwd when in the ruck or rested fwd.
I’m only going from a pickled memory though
 

tigerfan1961

Club Legend
Apr 18, 2007
2,479
5,874
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Aston Villa, SF 49ers
Because it would take trawling through results sides etc.

We did not play a game with 3 primary talls, but we played plenty where Chol in particular played forward when he wasn't in the ruck or on the bench.
The third tall being a ruck/forward doesn't work for me either, because they are too immobile. If Balta or Miller play that role, then it would be vastly different because they are as quick as anyone on the field and strong on the deck, Balta in particular. We would not be top heavy and far more dynamic.

I would not even mind Gibcus playing that role if he is going well in the VFL just to give us less predicability going forward.
Simple answer to all of this discussion regarding Josh and his potential role in the side.
He’s going to get game time in both match simulation at training and again during the two practice matches. If he performs pretty strongly, as I’m thinking he will, they will fit him in to the side somewhere. Anyone that can mark the footy as well as he does is going to have a role straight away. Like the tall skinny bloke from the Bummers whose name escapes me, except Gibcus is fearless in the contest, unlike the other bloke who looked a tad soft in the games I saw, but, that may change as he’s young

Edit: Nik Cox is the bummers player
 
Last edited:

DoItForCaptBlood

Premiership Player
Sep 8, 2008
3,943
8,664
Gold Coast
AFL Club
Richmond
Simple answer to all of this discussion regarding Josh and his potential role in the side.
He’s going to get game time in both match simulation at training and again during the two practice matches. If he performs pretty strongly, as I’m thinking he will, they will fit him in to the side somewhere. Anyone that can mark the footy as well as he does is going to have a role straight away. Like the tall skinny bloke from the Bummers whose name escapes me, except Gibcus is fearless in the contest, unlike the other bloke who looked a tad soft in the games I saw, but, that may change as he’s young

Edit: Nik Cox is the bummers player
Cox played mostly wing I think. Sure it's not Jones you're referring to? He was 1st year and played a fair few games before injured. 195+ I think and did ok for them.
Gibcus is obviously training with the backs. But if he has a few stints in the VFL forward and clunks and jags a few, might not be a bad idea for a taste up forward as a debut.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
Simple answer to all of this discussion regarding Josh and his potential role in the side.
He’s going to get game time in both match simulation at training and again during the two practice matches. If he performs pretty strongly, as I’m thinking he will, they will fit him in to the side somewhere. Anyone that can mark the footy as well as he does is going to have a role straight away. Like the tall skinny bloke from the Bummers whose name escapes me, except Gibcus is fearless in the contest, unlike the other bloke who looked a tad soft in the games I saw, but, that may change as he’s young

Edit: Nik Cox is the bummers player
I doubt he will play early, but as you say, if he can mark a ball there a spot will open up.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
The only games I remember Chol/CCJ playing fwd was when one of Tom or Jack were out. I don’t think I can recall to often he did play there alongside the 2 of them. May have floated fwd when in the ruck or rested fwd.
I’m only going from a pickled memory though
If Chol and CCJ played 18 games between them, and Jack played 22 and Lynch 19, there must have been plenty of games where they played together.
Just to satisfy all 4 played :Rd's .23, 21, 16
Jack, Lynch and CCJ played Rd's. 23, 22, 21,
Jack, Lynch and Chol played Rd's. 20, 19, 18, 17,
Chol, Lynch and CCJ played Rd's. 16, 15, 12, 11

So they played together most weeks in the last half of the year.
 

boxxie2022

All Australian
Nov 28, 2021
855
2,075
Gold Coast
AFL Club
Richmond
If Chol and CCJ played 18 games between them, and Jack played 22 and Lynch 19, there must have been plenty of games where they played together.
Just to satisfy all 4 played :Rd's .23, 21, 16
Jack, Lynch and CCJ played Rd's. 23, 22, 21,
Jack, Lynch and Chol played Rd's. 20, 19, 18, 17,
Chol, Lynch and CCJ played Rd's. 16, 15, 12, 11

So they played together most weeks in the last half of the year.

So that’s without soldo and only 1 ruck. I was more referencing previous successful years. If Nank and Soldo play there is no need for the 3rd tall fwd. my view is we should be looking for an effective medium sized fwd. if it’s George or Caddy or one of the newbies or a different combination that can kick 20-30 goals. Medium sized fwds have a major pet to play. Look at Fritsch.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
9,525
9,177
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
If Chol and CCJ played 18 games between them, and Jack played 22 and Lynch 19, there must have been plenty of games where they played together.
Just to satisfy all 4 played :Rd's .23, 21, 16
Jack, Lynch and CCJ played Rd's. 23, 22, 21,
Jack, Lynch and Chol played Rd's. 20, 19, 18, 17,
Chol, Lynch and CCJ played Rd's. 16, 15, 12, 11

So they played together most weeks in the last half of the year.
Not sure those are right.
You’ve doubled up on several and there are games where some have played and others haven’t.

You are going a good way to proving my point there though.

In those batches of games we stunk, and a lot of this had to do with our ability to score and keep the ball inside forward 50.

Chol and CCJ weren’t the answer with Jack and Lynch up forward.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
So that’s without soldo and only 1 ruck. I was more referencing previous successful years. If Nank and Soldo play there is no need for the 3rd tall fwd. my view is we should be looking for an effective medium sized fwd. if it’s George or Caddy or one of the newbies or a different combination that can kick 20-30 goals. Medium sized fwds have a major pet to play. Look at Fritsch.
I don't think we need two rucks except against Gawn and Nic Nat. Would rather play Balta or Miller as relief for Nank. Give Nank a break and play Soldo occasionally as well. Reckon we need a better forward line than we do a better second ruck. Besides Soldo may take a month or so of footy to get back in form, he hasn't played for 18 months now.

At least with Chol and CCJ they were half decent forwards, so they could play together with Jack and Lynch, Soldo and Nank cannot play as forwards, so one has to sit effectively on the pine for half a game.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
Not sure those are right.
You’ve doubled up on several and there are games where some have played and others haven’t.

You are going a good way to proving my point there though.

In those batches of games we stunk, and a lot of this had to do with our ability to score and keep the ball inside forward 50.

Chol and CCJ weren’t the answer with Jack and Lynch up forward.
here are the games:
We stunk it up in the last half of the year full stop, mainly due to injuries, not sure your point is backed up by that.
But I agree, we can't play 4 talls and 2 rucks.
I suggest 3 talls forward and Nank only in the ruck.
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    48.3 KB · Views: 12
  • 2.png
    2.png
    33 KB · Views: 12
  • 3.png
    3.png
    27.9 KB · Views: 10
  • 4.png
    4.png
    27.4 KB · Views: 10

boxxie2022

All Australian
Nov 28, 2021
855
2,075
Gold Coast
AFL Club
Richmond
I don't think we need two rucks except against Gawn and Nic Nat. Would rather play Balta or Miller as relief for Nank. Give Nank a break and play Soldo occasionally as well. Reckon we need a better forward line than we do a better second ruck. Besides Soldo may take a month or so of footy to get back in form, he hasn't played for 18 months now.

At least with Chol and CCJ they were half decent forwards, so they could play together with Jack and Lynch, Soldo and Nank cannot play as forwards, so one has to sit effectively on the pine for half a game.

So playing Balta or Miller (played 1 game) your robbing Peter (the backline and their best position) to pay Paul (ruck relief )
We need to leave the backline alone. Balta at CHB. It’s his best position. Not convinced Miller will make it or be a lynchpin in the side.
Nank and soldo will both play when fit. They’re a point of difference and have played in the same side successfully before.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
9,525
9,177
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
here are the games:
We stunk it up in the last half of the year full stop, mainly due to injuries, not sure your point is backed up by that.
But I agree, we can't play 4 talls and 2 rucks.
I suggest 3 talls forward and Nank only in the ruck.
For me there were two games where either CCJ or Chol were good up forward (in their whole career).

CCJs game was against the spooners when we were without Lynch and Dusty. Goals in this game to Jack, Edwards, Baker, MRJ, Parker, HRS, Bolton showed who our intent on keeping the ball in the forward 50 through pressure and the result was evident.

Chols game was against Brisbane. He tore it apart up forward in an impressive win. The only game I’ve seen with him, Lynch and Jack kick multiple goals each in a win. Interestingly enough he played more of an around the ground floater and relief ruck in this game while Jack and Tom played their usual roles.
CA867DC7-1857-4CD2-9BE5-B759AEAB7D06.jpeg


Hardly a sign that we have had great success playing three tall forwards.

And this isn’t mentioning the elephant in the room that Dusty playing with both Jack and Tom up forward gives us great marking potently, but less defensive pressure still.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
So playing Balta or Miller (played 1 game) your robbing Peter (the backline and their best position) to pay Paul (ruck relief )
We need to leave the backline alone. Balta at CHB. It’s his best position. Not convinced Miller will make it or be a lynchpin in the side.
Nank and soldo will both play when fit. They’re a point of difference and have played in the same side successfully before.
You have no idea if CHB is his best position because he has never been tried at CHF except for a couple of games in his first year.
Not convinced about Miller either, but until he is given games again we will never know.
We won the wooden spoon for the last half of the season, so perhaps we should think about plan B.
You can always go back if it doesn't work, settling in at CHB is all well and good if we had another gun forward as backup but we have none.

Yes Nank and Soldo have played together successfully, so has Grigg and Nank, Balta was instrumental in turning the game against Geelong when he went into the ruck. A player with who knows what upside, and you want to settle him into a defensive player.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,367
18,236
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
For me there were two games where either CCJ or Chol were good up forward (in their whole career).

CCJs game was against the spooners when we were without Lynch and Dusty. Goals in this game to Jack, Edwards, Baker, MRJ, Parker, HRS, Bolton showed who our intent on keeping the ball in the forward 50 through pressure and the result was evident.

Chols game was against Brisbane. He tore it apart up forward in an impressive win. The only game I’ve seen with him, Lynch and Jack kick multiple goals each in a win. Interestingly enough he played more of an around the ground floater and relief ruck in this game while Jack and Tom played their usual roles.
View attachment 1307619

Hardly a sign that we have had great success playing three tall forwards.

And this isn’t mentioning the elephant in the room that Dusty playing with both Jack and Tom up forward gives us great marking potently, but less defensive pressure still.
And Chol and CCJ aint no Balta. Completely different players, so you can't even use that comparison.
 

boxxie2022

All Australian
Nov 28, 2021
855
2,075
Gold Coast
AFL Club
Richmond
You have no idea if CHB is his best position because he has never been tried at CHF except for a couple of games in his first year.
Not convinced about Miller either, but until he is given games again we will never know.
We won the wooden spoon for the last half of the season, so perhaps we should think about plan B.
You can always go back if it doesn't work, settling in at CHB is all well and good if we had another gun forward as backup but we have none.

Yes Nank and Soldo have played together successfully, so has Grigg and Nank, Balta was instrumental in turning the game against Geelong when he went into the ruck. A player with who knows what upside, and you want to settle him into a defensive player.

The games he played up the ground he has looked lost, I believe some alluded to this earlier. He looks settled at CHB. Bare in mind our defenders age are not to dissimilar to our Fwds.
 

Rich01

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 5, 2004
9,525
9,177
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond
And Chol and CCJ aint no Balta. Completely different players, so you can't even use that comparison.
Nah, there’s been no evidence that a third tall has worked with Riewoldt and Lynch in our forward line. Balta will make no difference.

Jack and Tom with cameos from Dusty and defensive pressure from the rest is the formula. And it’s the reason Caddy went from King to Pauper in the space of one Tom Lynch recruitment.