Wells Recruiting record

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winty said:
Just had a look at the OP again.

Apparently trading West to Brisbane for pick 41 in 2013 was a loss. However, using that pick on Jake Kolodjashnij was supposedly a win.

How the hell does that work?
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West had checked out of Geelong prior to being traded, and realistically we got the best of him compared to his time at Brisbane. He did his ACL when with them and was restricted to 16 games as a Lion, so thinking we clearly won that trade

The same post also says that pick 21 from the Lions for Christensen was a loss, but when we sent pick 21 to St Kilda for Stanley it's a win...
 
gaz love x said:
The strike rate on draft picks generally is low.
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That's why it is so important the Cameron deal get's done. The success rate with recruits must be under 20%
 
MAHjnr said:
1. Dangerfield is a fail as you are the best in the business and yet the only one who traded for a RFA (excluding cases to help players)
2. Henderson was dumped after 4 years service, i hardly call that a win for a first round pick
3. Stewart was a Scarlo find, and Blitz a guthrie find, without them these two would be elsewhere - not a wells win
4. Hamling showed why he was recruited, cant blame wells if the MC dont play him, but on recruitment it was a win
5. given the crap dumped on parson on this board, i am not sure how people are calling this a win now
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Some great work putting it together.

but then...

please just stick to predicting mystery mids.

GO Catters
 

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cats_09 said:
West had checked out of Geelong prior to being traded, and realistically we got the best of him compared to his time at Brisbane. He did his ACL when with them and was restricted to 16 games as a Lion, so thinking we clearly won that trade

The same post also says that pick 21 from the Lions for Christensen was a loss, but when we sent pick 21 to St Kilda for Stanley it's a win...
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you realize pick 21 was mutually exclusive in terms of the two transactions
ie we got unders for bundy
won on stanley
 
cats_09 said:
It means players will accept under market value to move to Geelong and don't expect the club to pay out their m ass for them...
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we are paying market rates
we are at cap, have paid god money for players, we are not paying unders
 
winty said:
Just had a look at the OP again.

Apparently trading West to Brisbane for pick 41 in 2013 was a loss. However, using that pick on Jake Kolodjashnij was supposedly a win.

How the hell does that work?
Click to expand...
ie we can trade poorly ie a loss
draft well thats a win

seriously
 
MAHjnr said:
you realize pick 21 was mutually exclusive in terms of the two transactions
ie we got unders for bundy
won on stanley
Click to expand...

Just because a trade is completed separately doesn't mean it's not linked to other trades from that year - maybe we had been in discussions with St Kilda for Stanley longer then we had been with Brisbane over Christensen

We knew what St Kilda would agree to in a trade for Stanley, and while more may have been wanted for Christensen, it was decided the net result of the 2 trades would be a favorable outcome
 
I have absolutely no memory of Jock Cornell. Did this player actually exist or was it a Taro Tsujimoto situation?
 
so in the 10 year period you've used, Geelong has won 1 GF, played in 2 GF's, 6 PF's and only missed the finals once and won more games than any other club

But yes, terrible recruiting
 

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MAHjnr said:
no you set yourself up so they dont / cant match, be smart about it
Why is Wells a genius for trading for RFA when no-one else does
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Please do explain how you do this?

i assume you are going to say make the contract so lucrative that they wont match - good idea...lets end up like Collingwood having to dump players because our salary cap is screwed.

Or I guess we could just make sure that we are not attractive as a destination to the absolute top end of RFA’s. We could always overpay the Zac Williams’ of the world...that is one way of making sure the other team doesn’t match.

The fact that we have had 2 RFA’s matched is a great sign - it means that we have recruited top echelon players without overpaying them.
 
Wojcinski said:
so in the 10 year period you've used, Geelong has won 1 GF, played in 2 GF's, 6 PF's and only missed the finals once and won more games than any other club

But yes, terrible recruiting
Click to expand...

But the Cats are after every senior/veteran player available( ones who have got the runs on the board ) - its an interesting thing they are doing

Marc Murphy - about 10-15 weeks ago - he had a milestone game - might have been his250th or 300th game - but it was a significant game - and there was a feature article on him which i read

And he said at the end of 2019 - Geel were right into him - wanted to recruit him - but after consideration knocked it back to be a one team player etc

Who havent the Cats tried to recruit ?
 
MAHjnr said:
winty the best negotiator has twice been smacked on RFA - so they are fails
richmond picks up a younger Forward for free thats the basis of comparison

in list management terms look at carlton
they are killing it, martin for free, a rfa for free, get geelong to hand deliver fogarty for a pack of chips

Two parts in list management and that is trading and recriuiting, and wells fails in trading
the caddy situation is testament to that
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We got Parfitt for Caddy.

Swing and a miss.
 
winty said:
Some of that is bemusing to say the least. For example, it's hard to fathom how someone like Joel Hamling who didn't play a senior game is seen as a win, yet Murdoch who played over 100 games and Parsons who played 50 or so are seen as fails.

I'd be curious to know your rationale as to why some picks are wins, and others aren't.

EDIT: Just read you think getting Danger in for a trade was a fail. Lost all credibility there.
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Brad Hartman... win, but he chose to leave us. Linc McCarthy... win, chose to leave us.
 
MAHjnr said:
Name another club that traded for a RFA -
Dont let your anger lead you to being an abusive twad

People are showing how much latitude afforded to Wells, when none is afforded to Scott
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Currently, I'm such a huge fan of recruiting over drafting (and I reckon Wells and Scott are too). With your analysis - You've confirmed my thoughts about how unlikely it is for a draftee to stay at the club for a period of time and become a great player. Much simpler to bring older players in, even if they are for a shorter period of time, as you just know what you are going to get.
 
MAHjnr said:
no you set yourself up so they dont / cant match, be smart about it
Why is Wells a genius for trading for RFA when no-one else does
Click to expand...
Yeah, we've been forever fair with our pay-scale... but do we really need to be? Richmond are not. Why not offer Danger $1m in 2016? We may have lost Guthrie or not been able to get Tuohy, but then we'd have younger players moving up into those spots anyway. Likewise Cameron.
 
00VicWard001 said:
Yeah, we've been forever fair with our pay-scale... but do we really need to be? Richmond are not. Why not offer Danger $1m in 2016? We may have lost Guthrie or not been able to get Tuohy, but then we'd have younger players moving up into those spots anyway. Likewise Cameron.
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Adelaide likely could've matched unless we offered well over $1m. Then as soon as a player shows any sort of form they wonder why the club isn't offering the same or more than they could get to move to another club. So even if you produce young players they're more likely to move on or become disenfranchised by being paid well under what they're worth while others are paid higher than their worth.

You know what a good team looks like when they offer overs to bring in outside talent? Collingwood. They paid way overs for Wells and Mayne. Then did the same for Treloar and Beams. Then Grundy turns around and says unless you pay me $1m a year I'm leaving for a better offer. Then Moore does the same. Next thing you know you've everyone's demanding you match the outside offers and you've got inconsistent players who've had 1 good year (Langdon, Phillips, Cox, De Goey) on massive contracts compared to their output and your cap is destroyed.
 
Footy Smarts said:
Adelaide likely could've matched unless we offered well over $1m. Then as soon as a player shows any sort of form they wonder why the club isn't offering the same or more than they could get to move to another club. So even if you produce young players they're more likely to move on or become disenfranchised by being paid well under what they're worth while others are paid higher than their worth.

You know what a good team looks like when they offer overs to bring in outside talent? Collingwood. They paid way overs for Wells and Mayne. Then did the same for Treloar and Beams. Then Grundy turns around and says unless you pay me $1m a year I'm leaving for a better offer. Then Moore does the same. Next thing you know you've everyone's demanding you match the outside offers and you've got inconsistent players who've had 1 good year (Langdon, Phillips, Cox, De Goey) on massive contracts compared to their output and your cap is destroyed.
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The Pies will become the textbook example of how wrong you get things when your pay scale is out of whack. It's no longer just a hypothetical how this plays out; a stark example now exists of how messy it becomes when you give players the impression that almost any contract is payable (and that some players will earn far better than 'market rates'). Cats have been clear and firm about all this for many years, and I'm not aware of any players that have been prevented from coming as a result of our philosophy. Or of many that have been charging for the exits as a consequence of being 'ripped off', either.

And I know it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list of recent Collingwood screw-ups. After all, we all only have limited time to type here. But Stephenson is now the quintessential example of outlay not matching output for mine. Monumental blunder there in my view, and I don't see that his indifferent form of the past two seasons can be totally separated from the massive payday he was offered so early in his career.

Complacency and entitlement have never been qualities you'd be hoping to see in abundance in an elite sporting environment. But rivers of gold flowing to players who are not genuine and consistent A-graders can easily deliver you truckloads of trouble on that front.

Stay classy, Cats. Culture over cash is working just fine.
 
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MAHjnr said:
1. Dangerfield is a fail as you are the best in the business and yet the only one who traded for a RFA (excluding cases to help players)
2. Henderson was dumped after 4 years service, i hardly call that a win for a first round pick
3. Stewart was a Scarlo find, and Blitz a guthrie find, without them these two would be elsewhere - not a wells win
4. Hamling showed why he was recruited, cant blame wells if the MC dont play him, but on recruitment it was a win
5. given the crap dumped on parson on this board, i am not sure how people are calling this a win now
Click to expand...

To be fair that doesn't stand up to any objective analysis.
1. Every club in the land would have traded for Danger there is absolutely no doubt about that so clearly not a fail. Suggesting he should be held to a higher "best in the business standard" is not objective at all.
2. Most importantly every club drafts with a recruiting team. You can't just pick the "fails" and put them at Wells door (team and people around the club don;t matter) and at the same time pick "wins" and attribute them to said team and other people around the club. It's a classic double standaard.

If you are not objective it makes you look like have a bias against Wells and reduces the credibility of your data and opinions derived from them.
 
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