Welsh

[Vince Van Mackay]

OK. why in your opinion did we pay him?

I believe he spread fairy dust over the gumdrop groves, I read it in a report somewhere, it was the gumdrop grove and increase in stadium attendance at city stadium report by the imaginary firm.

150% fairy dust increase on gumdrop groves and 15000% increase in stadium attendances and a great benefit to the city economy on account of the mystical income golems.

 

[Crow-mo]

I believe he spread fairy dust over the gumdrop groves, I read it in a report somewhere, it was the gumdrop grove and increase in stadium attendance at city stadium report by the imaginary firm.

150% fairy dust increase on gumdrop groves and 15000% increase in stadium attendances and a great benefit to the city economy on account of the mystical income golems.

very droll

 

[Crow-mo]

Crow-mo, sometimes I don't know what the french connection you are on about. Seriously mate, please just talk normally without trying to sound smart, this is an internet forum in which people discuss football, its not somewhere for unnecessarily fancy language. I'm not saying talk like an idiot or write "lol", "omg" and so on but people cannot be bothered troweling through the bs to get to the point, they are only interested in the actual point of view, not the fluff.

if you don't understand, it's ok to move on.

 

[Kennyrocks]

if you don't understand, it's ok to move on.

No, I understand window dressing and BS very well when I see it actually. Thats all I'm going to say on the issue because a) you actually do make some good points sometimes and b) I've seen where these sort of things usually go with you. Cheers.

 

[Crow-mo]

No, I understand window dressing and BS very well when I see it actually. Thats all I'm going to say on the issue because a) you actually do make some good points sometimes and b) I've seen where these sort of things usually go with you. Cheers.

actually i very much doubt you do.

but as this must be the 3rd or 4th thread (more?) you've said the same thing in, I'll keep saying the same thing back I always do - if you don't understand something, you could just ask.

 

[Mego Red]

actually i very much doubt you do.

but as this must be the 3rd or 4th thread (more?) you've said the same thing in, I'll keep saying the same thing back I always do - if you don't understand something, you could just ask.

I think he's just asking you make your point and not overwrite it to the point where it is unreadable. I understand what you say, but even I couldn't be bothered reading a couple of your posts in this thread, because it was way OTT ...

But just because I'm too lazy to try and understand - NO-ONE is arguing that the addition of Welsh and Hudson has been more than a minor contribution to the Bulldogs vastly improved fortunes? Sure they've helped, but when you look at how much better Murphy, Akermanis, Cooney, Griffen, Giansiracusa etc have all been in '08 compared to '07 ...

 

[Mego Red]

no, no, no! there is not. there is only market value. any attempt at suggesting the value at which the market clears is not the price is just spin. there is no two, three or 4 ways about it.

Perhaps we should be using the term fair value instead of market value - in any event, it can be argued that you only need one possible buyer to set the price for an asset.

The Bulldogs wanted Welsh more than us and were willing to pay more. And in a year in which our scoring has increased dramatically, the damage seems minimal.

I walk past things all the time that i would not pay for, but someone else will - and they get it. that's what a market is. no point in me saying the price was high or they wanted too much, because clearly they didn't.

That's not true, necessarily. That one person is willing to pay the price doesn't make it the RIGHT price, if you need to sell 100,000 of them to turn a profit. The market could be saying that the rpice is too high for the perceived worth of the object.

but taking you on face value - Murphy played 17 out 22 games last year; and hahn is not a game changer. so we can safely say neither has made that much difference.

Murphy was returning from a knee recon.

interesting. if better players in your team, directly subtracted from your opposition isn't worth more than 3 points in the wash (against the doggies) then I don't know what to tell you.

You can't say this without looking at the value of who we replaced the players with and who the Bulldogs would have replaced them with. I'm not saying you're wrong, but losing Welsh and Hudson doesn't mean we played 20 against 24.

my point, clearly stated, was that we made a number of decisions (including but not limited to welsh) that perhaps we would not have made with hindsight given how much success we have had.

This is such a backwards argument. You can't say "we made changes and had increased success - now, we shouldn't have made those changes so we could have had more success". Winning is a jenga tower and you can't just remove elements from the success and assume that everything will stay solid. That being said, you're right that perhaps we wouldn't have made them, and perhaps we still would have. Hard to know.

I don't think anyone disputes that we made those decisions because we beleived our window to contend had closed - so on discovering that the window had not closed, you'd still have chosen to rebuild is, well, an interesting one.

Reading between the lines, that's probably a reasonable assumption. I think all that can be argued 100% is the simple fact that they didn't think Welsh and Hudson would be positive contributors to our future success. Or, at least the worth of their contributions wasn't worth the return these players wanted. I thought they were right then and I think they're right now - and it is nice to see when long term thinking doesn't do any harm in the short term as well.

 

[marvin]

Crow-mo -

It gets to the point where it's not worth the effort to continue.

I don't rate Welsh that highly. Never have, never will.

Good luck to him at his new club.

Others can rate him as highly as they want. I agree to disagree.

HOWEVER - don't ever, ever question that I don't have the best interests of the club at heart, no matter what my opinions. Don't ever, ever question that anybody on this board does, no matter what they think. I may be wrong, others may be wrong, you may even be wrong. It doesn't mean none of us care.

To even imply that it does is beneath contempt in my book.

 

[subaru]

I think he's benefiting from not being the #1 forward, copping the #1 defender each week.

At Footscray he's got Johnson taking the #1 defender, with Aker, Murphy & Welsh all competing for 2nd, 3rd & 4th defenders.

If he were still at the Crows, he'd still be our #1 forward and suffering as he always has from having to combat the best defender.

It's long been noted that he'd make a great 2nd or 3rd forward, but was not equipped to be #1. Now he's proving that to be true.

Exactly -poor bugger always copped the biggest defender - and he's really not that big himself! I am glad he's doing well over there - but I still think the club was wrong to let him go.

 

[Rascally]

Exactly -poor bugger always copped the biggest defender - and he's really not that big himself! I am glad he's doing well over there - but I still think the club was wrong to let him go.

I dont think he told the club he wanted to leave until after the trade period, basically screwing the club over, ensuring they got nothing for him. As far as I am concerned, the mongrel can burn in hell.

 

[SydCrow]

and he has a mullet

 

[Throughandthrough]

and hahn is not a game changer. .

Don't watch many Bulldogs games then?

That's ok, I don't watch many crows games. But for that reason I don't make outlandish claims that are wrong on internet forums about Crows players.

 

[subaru]

and he has a mullet

And the bluest eyes and a gorgeous arse and the nicest smile ... best looking player we had since Modra.......but he looks good in the Dogs Royal Blue........."swoon"

 

[Ferris_rules]

Of the players that left last year this was the player could have played another a couple of years and made a meaningful contribution to our team and club, anyways thats just my opinion !

 

[subaru]

I dont think he told the club he wanted to leave until after the trade period, basically screwing the club over, ensuring they got nothing for him. As far as I am concerned, the mongrel can burn in hell.

You are being a bit rascally there - he did NOT want to go - AFC and his management could not come to agreement and it took that long for a decision to be made.
AFC took him on when he wanted to come back for family reasons - he had no reason to want to diss on them - and neither he has - bet you have not heard one bad word out of his mouth about Adelaide.

Now, if you don't have something nice to say about someone.......

 

[Ferris_rules]

You are being a bit rascally there - he did NOT want to go - AFC and his management could not come to agreement and it took that long for a decision to be made.
AFC took him on when he wanted to come back for family reasons - he had no reason to want to diss on them - and neither he has - bet you have not heard one bad word out of his mouth about Adelaide.

Now, if you don't have something nice to say about someone.......

Yeah I agree. Welsh wanted to stay but my understanding is he wanted two years???

I dont think you should refer to him Rascally as a mongrel, I am very grateful as a supporter for his contribution to our club. Their are people that word could be reserved for, although I choose to use the word ungrateful for Hudson.

we have lost some players to the "go home" factor to which I really do understand and appreciate.

But really who are we to criticize players who want more money after all this is their livelihood.

Should we blame Hudson for wanting to have a guaranteed pay for three years just so to appease the supporters and stay for two at the AFC.

I mean what would most people do for their families. Remember for a lot of players once their careers are over they are finished in terms of earning the kind of dollars they once earnt.

 

[KingsCrow]

You are being a bit rascally there - he did NOT want to go - AFC and his management could not come to agreement and it took that long for a decision to be made.
AFC took him on when he wanted to come back for family reasons - he had no reason to want to diss on them - and neither he has - bet you have not heard one bad word out of his mouth about Adelaide.

Now, if you don't have something nice to say about someone.......

Welsh said players didn't have fun under Craigey.

 

[Ferris_rules]

Welsh said players didn't have fun under Craigey.

In fairness to Craig though his record at the Crows is far better than Eade's at the Bulldogs.

For that matter Craig's training regime was part of the reason the Crows were back to back premiers.

Rather a coach like Craig than Eade. Though I do rate Eade as a coach.

 

[Butane]

In fairness to Craig though his record at the Crows is far better than Eade's at the Bulldogs.

For that matter Craig's training regime was part of the reason the Crows were back to back premiers.

Rather a coach like Craig than Eade. Though I do rate Eade as a coach.

If you want to get technical, Welsh didn't say Craig was a bad coach..just not a 'fun' coach. He said that just as he left the Crows, i wonder how he feels now. Eade doesn't exactly sound like the funnest coach either.

 

[Vince Van Mackay]

If you want to get technical, Welsh didn't say Craig was a bad coach..just not a 'fun' coach. He said that just as he left the Crows, i wonder how he feels now. Eade doesn't exactly sound like the funnest coach either.

About as fun as the amount of money hes getting paid i imagine.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Welsh said players didn't have fun under Craigey.

Then again, it was Welsh who wanted two more years at the AFC yawn-factory rather than one.

Can't have been too big of an issue for him.

 

[subaru]

Welsh said players didn't have fun under Craigey.

OK -but if that's the worst he could say - maybe - and I am just surmising - Craig's training regime is reported to be one of the toughest in the league - Welsh had a spate of injuries and it was not until last year that he was relatively injury free. Perhaps when you are suspect to hammies and stress fractures - training under Craig wouldn't be fun.

 

[King Elvis]

Should we blame Hudson for wanting to have a guaranteed pay for three years just so to appease the supporters and stay for two at the AFC.

My only criticism of Hudson was that he effectively did the deal with the Western Bulldogs, and it was basically a case of us having no bargaining power, them having all of it, and us being screwed over for him.

As for Welsh saying playing under Craigy was no fun, I'd rather he didn't say it, but, to be fair, Roo, Burton and possibly even Goody all either said it or alluded to it - so there was obviously some truth to it; and from the looks of it, Craig acknowledged that it was a problem and took action to change it.

 

[Sir Vlado]

Though the Bulldogs probably won't have them both for too long because they (Hudson and Welsh) are nearing their 30s (Welsh 30 in December, Hudson 29 this year, [correct me if i am wrong]) and are both injury-prone so i'd expect them to only last max.3 years. But they were of respectable service to the Crows and thats what matters.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I dont think he told the club he wanted to leave until after the trade period, basically screwing the club over, ensuring they got nothing for him. As far as I am concerned, the mongrel can burn in hell.

If anyone screwed anyone over then its the AFC screwing Welsh.

They offered him a one year deal and told Welsh if he did certain things they would give him another one year deal. When Welshy asked for those things to be put in writing in his contract we said no.

Welsh did nothing wrong. Why would he trust a club that just delisted Jason Torney after his career best year. He wanted some security that would guarantee him 2nd year of the contract if he met certain criteria. The fact that AFC wanted him to verbally agree to those clauses and were not prepared to put them in the contract in black and white leads to one conclusion, no matter how good a season Welsh had, he was never going to play for the AFC beyond 2008 season.