We're Lucky...

[Rave Slave]

Not sure about many of you guys but I've always followed the Tiges and Dogs intently (moreso early on) because I was quite keen on getting one of Wallet or Eade when our last coaching selection came up. I humbly admit I had Craig in the bronze medal position. Fast track a few years and we have Wallace possibly needing witness protection and his time looking short lived.

Makes you wonder how things COULD have been. Pretty happy with Craigy in the end (though I still have a soft spot for Rocket).

Watching the Richmond and Freo games however you come to realise, we're pretty lucky as Crows fans. Sure we may have bombed in a couple of finals matches we should've won but jeez, things cold be much, much worse!

 

[Crows4Flag]

Yer your not wrong i definately rate Craigy up there as the best coaches after Mark Thompson, Paul Roos, Alistair Clarkson and Mark Williams. I was sceptical at first and would have rather the big name coach but weve made the finals each year under Craig and cant ask for much more than that except the premiership but that will come.

 

[smoovy]

He almost pinched us a premiership in 05 and 06 with what was just an average list. He was the one who came up with the full field zone before Clarkson copied it and took all the credit. Difference was Clarkson had a gun forward in Franklin.

07/08/09 have been about limiting the damage while we rebuild. I am now in a high state of arousal with what the future holds for the next few years.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Craigy was definately the pick of the 3.

 

[Crow-mo]

Eade's done a great job at the doggies, can't ask for much more than he's done. wallace has obviously sucked arse, but equally lets take a step back here. He is a good coach, I don't think there is much doubt there and yet his results at richmond have been shizen.

maybe its richmond themselves?

I just do not believe craig or eade would have done any better there. Richmond has been a graveyard for coaches for a long time now. not that I think it matters, wallace is history. but I wonder how much responsibility the club itself has in all this.

 

[King Elvis]

Eade's done a great job at the doggies, can't ask for much more than he's done. wallace has obviously sucked arse, but equally lets take a step back here. He is a good coach, I don't think there is much doubt there and yet his results at richmond have been shizen.

maybe its richmond themselves?

No he isn't.

He's had them for five years - and half of them can't kick properly. Their decision making is terrible.

Their fitness and strength levels are deplorable.

Their player development is a joke - you'd struggle to name a single player who has improved their game considerably since Wallace has been there, and you could easily name a dozen who have stalled or gone backwards.

They've recruited shit players - both with top 10 draft picks, and then giving up picks for players like Jordan McMahon (who in their right mind would have given pick 30 for him, let alone pick 17?), while recycling people like Kent Kingsley.


The buck has to stop with the senior coach, and Wallace is absolutely shithouse. Richmond are considerably worse off than they were when they appointed him.

And he doesn't even have the integrity to resign.

Wallace was probably right when he said Richmond were a better Club with a better list then Hawthorn - and by saying that, and the way Clarkson has turned Hawthorn around, he's highlighted how absolutely terrible his performance has been.

 

[Crow-mo]

No he isn't.

He's had them for five years - and half of them can't kick properly. Their decision making is terrible.

Their fitness and strength levels are deplorable.

Their player development is a joke - you'd struggle to name a single player who has improved their game considerably since Wallace has been there, and you could easily name a dozen who have stalled or gone backwards.

They've recruited shit players - both with top 10 draft picks, and then giving up picks for players like Jordan McMahon (who in their right mind would have given pick 30 for him, let alone pick 17?), while recycling people like Kent Kingsley.


The buck has to stop with the senior coach, and Wallace is absolutely shithouse. Richmond are considerably worse off than they were when they appointed him.

And he doesn't even have the integrity to resign.

thank you. this rambling nonsense is everything wrong with bigfooty.

John Northey was the last person to have any kind of success, and I guess everyone after that were all bad coaches too. and if Sheedy or Malthouse take over, as has been mooted, then they will become bad coaches too.

 

[King Elvis]

thank you. this rambling nonsense is everything wrong with bigfooty.

John Northey was the last person to have any kind of success, and I guess everyone after that were all bad coaches too. and if Sheedy or Malthouse take over, as has been mooted, then they will become bad coaches too.

I'm well aware that Richmond have been rubbish for 25 years.

So were St Kilda, so were Geelong, so were Sydney. I guess Roos, Lyons and Thompson all became bad coaches when they joined those Clubs, correct?

How about Central District here in the SANFL?

Your opinion seems to be that a bad Club will turn a good coach into a bad one, where I believe a good coach can turn a bad club into a good one.

Care to actually tell me which statements regarding Wallace & Richmond are incorrect?

The Senior Coach isn't responsible for the skill level and decision making ability of his side?

The Senior Coach isn't responsible for insuring his team has an excellent fitness level and have strong, big bodies capable of contesting the football?

A Senior Coach whose been in control for 5 years and made recruiting and trade stuff ups almost every single year shouldn't take any responsibility for them?

thank you. this rambling nonsense is everything wrong with bigfooty.

The real shame is that if you could go more than half a day without being a complete and utter tosser, who seems to gain some sense of satisfaction from making pathetic little snipes at people without any real substance, you'd actually be a fantastic contributor to this board.

But whatever makes you feel good about yourself, I guess.

 

[Zvim]

I like Craig, very good and honest no-bullshit coach. Have some doubts about how he rates as a match day coach, especially come the pointy end of the season, seems a bit stubborn at times about making changes which often go pear shape, but still a damn fine coach.

 

[relapse]

Not sure about many of you guys but I've always followed the Tiges and Dogs intently (moreso early on) because I was quite keen on getting one of Wallet or Eade when our last coaching selection came up. I humbly admit I had Craig in the bronze medal position. Fast track a few years and we have Wallace possibly needing witness protection and his time looking short lived.

Makes you wonder how things COULD have been. Pretty happy with Craigy in the end (though I still have a soft spot for Rocket).

Watching the Richmond and Freo games however you come to realise, we're pretty lucky as Crows fans. Sure we may have bombed in a couple of finals matches we should've won but jeez, things cold be much, much worse!

I had Wallace in my pole position too as to who I wanted as coach.

It's easy to look back now and comment, but who's to say that if Wallet didnt go to Richmond that it would have been the same. There is something rotten down at Richmond and no coach that has been there in the last 25+ years has been able to get the side to become consistently successful.

I have always remained disappointed in the process more than anything else. Yes I did want Wallace to get the job, but that was only because Adelaide claimed that they were out to "search for the best available coach". The point that was made at the time was that arguably Craig at that time was the not the best available coach.

Obviously it has turned out well for us, but I still believe the whole search process was extremely contrived and Craig had the job all along. I just wish the Crows had of come out and just said it from the start instead of deliberately mis-informing the supporters and waste time holding a contrived search when the whole process was moot.

 

[Rave Slave]

I had Wallace in my pole position too as to who I wanted as coach.

It's easy to look back now and comment, but who's to say that if Wallet didnt go to Richmond that it would have been the same. There is something rotten down at Richmond and no coach that has been there in the last 25+ years has been able to get the side to become consistently successful.

I have always remained disappointed in the process more than anything else. Yes I did want Wallace to get the job, but that was only because Adelaide claimed that they were out to "search for the best available coach". The point that was made at the time was that arguably Craig at that time was the not the best available coach.

Obviously it has turned out well for us, but I still believe the whole search process was extremely contrived and Craig had the job all along. I just wish the Crows had of come out and just said it from the start instead of deliberately mis-informing the supporters and waste time holding a contrived search when the whole process was moot.

Pretty much where I stand on the whole thing too.

Seriously though, who'd be a Richmond supporter? I actually feel sorry for them.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Did I hear right that Wayne Campbell is being seriously looked at as the next coach of Richmond. Surely they are joking - talk about being on a never ending cycle of failure.

 

[cmndstab]

I love and highly rate Neil Craig but I can't help but feel he would have been a disaster at Richmond. He would have been exactly what the problem has been with Richmond - a coach who finished ninth every year and never looked like improving. At least with the Crows Craig has managed to get some decent youth while keeping us competitive, but keeping Richmond competitive would have been almost impossible and required the playing of no youngsters.


We have been very lucky over the few years to have much more happy weekends than otherwise during the footy season, no doubt about that. Few other clubs have given their supporters such good value as the Crows since Craig took over. If we just had one premiership in that time you'd be 100% happy.

 

[Cap]

Are you serious? I highly doubt that Craig would have had the same results as Terry Wallet!

I don't think half the players currently on the list would exist. It would also be interesting to see how he would have handled Richo

 

[afc9798]

Did I hear right that Wayne Campbell is being seriously looked at as the next coach of Richmond. Surely they are joking - talk about being on a never ending cycle of failure.

About the least inspiring replacement you could possibly think of. Was a soft player with a pea sized heart and couldn't even get the respect of his players as a captain, let alone as a coach. Richmond really need to dig deep and find the right coach, as the way they are going, they are looking like being near the bottom for the next 10 years.

Even worse, the cream of the draft is going to Gold Coast, so they have really stuffed up the whole process. Can't see any real light for Richmond or Melbourne for some time, in fact ever at this stage.

Players like Campbell, Daffy, Chaffey, Bowden etc. really say it all about Richmond's ability to recruit the right types.

 

[The Crows Truth]

I'm well aware that Richmond have been rubbish for 25 years.

So were St Kilda, so were Geelong, so were Sydney. I guess Roos, Lyons and Thompson all became bad coaches when they joined those Clubs, correct?

How about Central District here in the SANFL?

Your opinion seems to be that a bad Club will turn a good coach into a bad one, where I believe a good coach can turn a bad club into a good one.

Care to actually tell me which statements regarding Wallace & Richmond are incorrect?

The Senior Coach isn't responsible for the skill level and decision making ability of his side?

The Senior Coach isn't responsible for insuring his team has an excellent fitness level and have strong, big bodies capable of contesting the football?

A Senior Coach whose been in control for 5 years and made recruiting and trade stuff ups almost every single year shouldn't take any responsibility for them?



The real shame is that if you could go more than half a day without being a complete and utter tosser, who seems to gain some sense of satisfaction from making pathetic little snipes at people without any real substance, you'd actually be a fantastic contributor to this board.

But whatever makes you feel good about yourself, I guess.

you make excellent points here

defending wallace is lunacy. as you noted they collectively have shit skills, they are pea-hearted, arent fit enough etc etc. Guess who had 7 top 24 picks in 2004 and 2005? And got ONE decent player in return in Delidio.....then theres the monumental **** up of Mc Mahon for pick 17 amongst other laughable additions. His obsession with fast, outside players who are completely soft is a massive slur on his recognition of what it takes to play the game. He made the same mistakes at the Bullies - obviously he isnt a fast learner.

The fact is under Wallace the recruiting has been league worst, player development has been league worst and 5 years after he started they will probably win the wooden spoon. Yeah, good coach this guy

 

[KUNG FU]

Everything Wallet criticizes his own team for, he has instigated or exacerbated with his soft game style, obsession with short people and peanuts with no skill and inability to properly develop even the classiest of players on his list to their full potential.

Craig is a fantastic coach and will be remembered as such, even if he finishes tomorrow.

 

[Crow-mo]

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/supercoach/index.php/heraldsun/comments/its_head_down_terry/


Kevin Sheedy

Sunday, April 19, 2009 at 11:00am



DURING my 27 seasons at Essendon the Tigers made 12 coaching changes.
In racing parlance, Terry Wallace has just jumped out of the barriers in the Melbourne Cup.
A long season awaits and we should not hang, draw and quarter a coach based on three games.
In my first year I lost five of my first six games and all of a sudden we produced a winning run. That could happen in the next two months with Wallace and then the calls for his axing won’t be as loud.
Coaches should be judged on their lists and their ability to get the best out of their players.
Wallace has had four years at Punt Rd, but it took Mark Thompson eight years to win his first flag down at Geelong.
There are seven coaches coming off contract and five willing premiership coaches who could take their jobs. I’m a premiership coach who could still coach if I wanted to. Then you’ve got Mick Malthouse, who is off contract, Denis Pagan, John Worsfold and Mark Williams.
It’s fantastic for the media to create talk, but why cut a guy short on a contract? I wouldn’t make any announcement on a coach being replaced until after the last match of the season. You honour a contract and I’m very grateful that Essendon did that with me.
If I were Wallace, I would just keep my head down and continue to work through the process.
Right now he would wish he had done better, but things don’t always happen overnight.
Unguided passion is dangerous and it disrupts organisations. You can’t blame Wallace for the previous years of failure at Richmond.
Tigers champion Francis Bourke got Richmond into a Grand Final in 1982 and everyone thought he had failed. Now the club has suffered for almost three decades for being disloyal to him. He could have been a much better coach if he was given the chance. During my 27 seasons at Essendon the Tigers made 12 coaching changes. It’s a remarkable statistic.
I can empathise with a coach at the moment. About the same stage of the 1993 season I was not going to be coach of Essendon in 1994. I was a dead duck ready to be shot. Timmy Watson kicked a goal out of his backside and from then on nothing stopped the players. I just had to get the 20 in the team right.
Laying blame on a coach smacks of an uneducated attitude. You’ve got to get your list in order for the cyclone approaching. That is cyclone Gold Coast and cyclone West Sydney.
It might be the safest time not to coach if you want to have a career. Maybe the AFL needs to look at having a pool of contracts for any player above 30. They can play 12 games and be paid outside the salary cap.
The best thing we did at Essendon was play James Hird for another year and he won a best and fairest. If you’re not going to get the early choices, how are you going to be a chance in the next five years?
It’s not about whether a coach has won or lost three games. It’s about Melbourne clubs really banking through a better plan than what’s on the table now.
The fattest recruit in the AFL last year turned the Grand Final on its head. That’s Stuey Dew. And what happened to the scientist’s recommendation? AFL clubs right now need people in experienced positions to be smart.
It’s about building your club to go somewhere.
Richmond doesn’t have that hopeless a list. All they’ve got to do is keep working on their skills and make better decisions.
You don’t sack coaches during the year. I believe the AFL should make sure with their management and presidents that it doesn’t happen.
Coaching’s not that hard but on the flip side people don’t realise how tough it can be. Malthouse hasn’t won a premiership in over 300 matches. The problem when coaches lose is that they are condemned to death row.

 

[SydCrow]

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/supercoach/index.php/heraldsun/comments/its_head_down_terry/


Kevin Sheedy

Sunday, April 19, 2009 at 11:00am



DURING my 27 seasons at Essendon the Tigers made 12 coaching changes.
In racing parlance, Terry Wallace has just jumped out of the barriers in the Melbourne Cup.
A long season awaits and we should not hang, draw and quarter a coach based on three games.
In my first year I lost five of my first six games and all of a sudden we produced a winning run. That could happen in the next two months with Wallace and then the calls for his axing won’t be as loud.
Coaches should be judged on their lists and their ability to get the best out of their players.
Wallace has had four years at Punt Rd, but it took Mark Thompson eight years to win his first flag down at Geelong.
quote]

Somehow I don't think Plow will get another three years

 

[tigris72]

I agree that the buck stops with the coach but at Richmond the coach is not allowd to be the coach he needs to be. There are too many off field issues and no cohesion. The footy department has been a mess for most of his reign. Yeah, their recruiting has been poor and so has the development of players but it is hard to develop fully with your hands tied behind your back. Wallace did well at the dogs...he got them as far as Craig has with the Crows and with their list at the time it was an impressive effort....and that is what gave him credibility at the time of appointment.

Look at Blighty...he was fantastic at Adelaide as far as winning premierships, he had a major say and lots of control but at St Kilda where he had no control...he lost everything.

Richmond is the problem....no so much Wallace. I seriously doubt whether anyone can lift Richmond from where they are without a major overhaul of the whole footy department.

 

[SydCrow]

Interesting call. I imagine Plow's payout will come with a big golden gag so he can't dump on them (unlike Blighty - although it took him a few years)

 

[Crow-mo]

I'm well aware that Richmond have been rubbish for 25 years.

So were St Kilda, so were Geelong, so were Sydney. I guess Roos, Lyons and Thompson all became bad coaches when they joined those Clubs, correct?

That makes no sense.

St Kilda made finals and grand finals in recent times. As did Geelong. As did Sydney.

Your opinion seems to be that a bad Club will turn a good coach into a bad one, where I believe a good coach can turn a bad club into a good one.

no, you've missed the nuance in a fairly straight forward, and not terribly complex idea. a good coach probably can't turn around a bad club - and a bad club might do in a good coach. a good club, probably makes a bad coach look better.

Take Denis Pagan. Did North make him better - they were in a mess after a 150 pt belting from us under Schimelbusch. or did Carlton make him bad? or maybe, neither?

Care to actually tell me which statements regarding Wallace & Richmond are incorrect?

no, quite frankly because that level of playground discourse is obvious enough. but we'll come to this soon enough.

The Senior Coach isn't responsible for the skill level and decision making ability of his side?

responsible? sure. he is responsible, but whether the person carrying the can is truly the one to blame is another question. somewhere along the line, after a series of repeat instances you start looking for other causes.

The Senior Coach isn't responsible for insuring his team has an excellent fitness level and have strong, big bodies capable of contesting the football?

the problem here, is that it suits certain agenda's to look at clubs as one person entities. what's more, if you were asked to prove to that Richmond did not have adequate fitness or that they did not have big or strong enough bodies you couldn't. that is the sort of loose piss n wind, I'm talking about. make something up, decide its the cause of all the problems, and hold it out as some sort of defining proof of the coaches failure?

A Senior Coach whose been in control for 5 years and made recruiting and trade stuff ups almost every single year shouldn't take any responsibility for them?

firstly, I'm not saying he shouldn't take responsibility. I'm saying at what point in the continously repeating pattern do we take a step back?
secondly, its all very arbitrary to decide what a coach did, and did not do. I don't think there is any doubt that 2004 and 2005 drafting has cost them majorly.

but so far there is no need for a footy ops dept.
no need for a recruiting dept.
no need for fitness coaches and staff

its all done by one guy?

and you ask what statements aren't right? please. what statements have you made that are correct?

richmond's got problems, wallace hasn't ultimately delivered on his tenure, and he's going to get the bullet you'd think.

mind you, Sydney wanted (and signed him). Adelaide was interested, and so was Hawthorn. He did a great job with the doggies, and naturally the league was interested and appreciative in what he had done up to that point.

If he were such a bad coach, he'd be umpires director for the AFL by now

The real shame is that if you could go more than half a day without being a complete and utter tosser, who seems to gain some sense of satisfaction from making pathetic little snipes at people without any real substance, you'd actually be a fantastic contributor to this board.

the thing is, my point was right.

when I raised the question of could there be more to this: no, wallace is shit blah blah blah... is exactly what is wrong.

What's more I notice Kevin Sheedy is raising the same questions today.

wallace is shit, is neither interesting or very informative. he's cooked, and it might well be the end of his career - but we've seen him be a very effective coach, and we've seen him not achieve the results. why does the negative, flavour of the month become unchallenged gospel? especially when its so easy to attribute wider issues to him to further that perception.

 

[Crow-mo]

It's easy to look back now and comment, but who's to say that if Wallet didnt go to Richmond that it would have been the same. There is something rotten down at Richmond and no coach that has been there in the last 25+ years has been able to get the side to become consistently successful.

and that is the question. the answer to 12 coaches in 25 odd years is clearly not quite as easy as blah blah blah wallace is shit.

who is to say things might not have been very different?

 

[Vader]

My guess is that they'll let him know he won't be coaching in 2010 and leave it up to him to decide whether or not he wishes to see out the season, much the same as we did with Ayres.

The odds are that he will stay on out of sheer bloody mindedness, as did Danny Frawley before him (who was put in the same position).

Lets face it, when the best option they have as "caretaker coach" is Wayne Campbell, they're better off leaving Plough in charge!

 

[Crow-mo]

Are you serious? I highly doubt that Craig would have had the same results as Terry Wallet!

I don't think half the players currently on the list would exist. It would also be interesting to see how he would have handled Richo

first thing Blight would've done, is to get rid of Richo.