Were West Coast really a 'state team' in the early 90s?

[Kwality]

As the other Eagles supporters have posted - he was a father /son pick - the other clubs couldnt pick him - thats why the Eagles used one of their last picks (112) to select him - the Eagles are hardly going to use pick 3 on him !!!

As Jack Dyer said - when Fremantle came into the competition - quote " Whatever success Fremantle get - they will thoroughly deserve - because they have been set up a million miles behind West Coast "

Is that father/son the same one that got Ablett jnr.

 

[Kwality]

.....no, but they did at least have him give Karl Langdon the chicken walk at the MCG before he returned home to the west.

These two had the Wembley Hotel at one stage

 

[Matchu]

Is that father/son the same one that got Ablett jnr.

1989 - Ashley McIntosh (father played 146 games for Claremont in the WAFL 1962-69 and 51 games for St Kilda 1970-72)
1995 - Ben Cousins (father played 238 games for Perth in the WAFL 1970-87 and 67 games for Geelong 1975-79)
2004 - Mitch Morton (father played 171 games for Claremont in the WAFL 1979-88)

All three were more WAFL players than VFL players. Those were the rules at the time. Get over it.

 

[kane249]

State reps from West Coast
1990 - 10 (Hart, Heady, Irving, Jakovich, Langdon, Lewis, Mainwaring, Malaxos, Sumich, Wilson)

1991 - 14 (Heady, Jakovich, Kemp, Lamb, Langdon, Mainwaring, Matera, McIntosh, McKenna, Pyke, Sumich, Turley, Waterman, Watters)

1992 - 13 (Hepburn, Jakovich, Kemp, Lamb, Langdon, Lewis, Mainwaring, Matera, McIntosh, Waterman, Watters, Wilson, Worsfold)

State reps from Adelaide
1993 - 10 (Anderson, Bickley, Hart, A.Jarman, McDermott, McGuinness, Modra, Pittman, Robran, Smart)
1994 - 10 (Anderson, Hart, Jameson, A.Jarman, McDermott, Modra, Rehn, Ricciuto, Smart, Tregenza)
1995 - 10 (Bickley, Hart, A.Jarman, McDermott, McKinnon, Pittman, Ricciuto, Smart, Tregenza, Wellman)

So nothing like the heights West Coast reached

By your own count, both teams achieved a double figure contribution 3 times, but they were nothing alike?

Ok then

 

[Matchu]

By your own count, both teams achieved a double figure contribution 3 times, but they were nothing alike?

Ok then

At West Coast's peak they had 14 state reps and that was in a premiership year. At Adelaide's peak they had 10 state reps. That's nearly 50% extra state reps for the Eagles. West Coast also had a lot of WA's biggest stars like Mainwaring and Jakovich where as Kernahan, Wanganeen and Carey were all missing from the Crows line up. They're not really comparable.

 

[kane249]

At West Coast's peak they had 14 state reps and that was in a premiership year. At Adelaide's peak they had 10 state reps. That's nearly 50% extra state reps for the Eagles. West Coast also had a lot of WA's biggest stars like Mainwaring and Jakovich where as Kernahan, Wanganeen and Carey were all missing from the Crows line up. They're not really comparable.

1991 wasn't a premiership year, so that's a fact wrong off the bat straight away. 1992 and 13 representatives was however with all of the 13 you listed having been drafted and developed over the previous years by the club.

Suggest you have a re-read of Forward Press' post on the opening page for proper context of the initial setup of the team and just how much of the 1986 SOO team we actually got access to. Not to mention the other players who go raided from the WAFL just before we got granted our license as well.

If we truly had been given a state team, and a full playing list instead of the 15 players less handicap we were given, then we would have probably won more than just the 2 flags.

 

[Kwality]

At West Coast's peak they had 14 state reps and that was in a premiership year. At Adelaide's peak they had 10 state reps. That's nearly 50% extra state reps for the Eagles. West Coast also had a lot of WA's biggest stars like Mainwaring and Jakovich where as Kernahan, Wanganeen and Carey were all missing from the Crows line up. They're not really comparable.

That's nearly 50% extra state reps for the Eagles ... great example of why %s are dubious measures.

Was Carey an SA origin player (assuming its Wayne not Peter !!)

With 18 less players on their list up front at the Eagles, it was inevitable this inequity would need to be adjusted - & the adjustment came at the time WA footy was awash with talent.
During the adjustment SA footy was sitting on its hands, the Eagles were doing the pioneering in the VFL then AFL, almost State of Origin replayed.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

1991 wasn't a premiership year, so that's a fact wrong off the bat straight away. 1992 and 13 representatives was however with all of the 13 you listed having been drafted and developed over the previous years by the club.

. Not to mention the other players who go raided from the WAFL just before we got granted our license as well.

If we truly had been given a state team, and a full playing list instead of the 15 players less handicap we were given, then we would have probably won more than just the 2 flags.

I heard Mark Bairstow in a radio interview about 3-4 years ago

Bairstow said he wanted to join West Coast - he had no interest whatsoever in playing for an Eastern States club

However he said Graham Moss was the head honcho - the head recruiting guy for the Eagles at the time - and that Moss didnt rate him ( Bairstow ) as a footballer at all - and had zero interest in signing him to the Eagles - thus Bairstow looked elsewhere - and because of his rural upbringing - he chose Geelong

Thus i would hardly call that " raided"

 

[Freomaniac]

Playing list of 35 compared to the 53 the rest of the comp got, yeah the VFL really looked after us didn't they?

Thats the one thing that scratches my head. 40 should be enough. Starting a new AFL club with 35 guys would barely be enough now days with injuries and the pace of the game.

 

[kane249]

I heard Mark Bairstow in a radio interview about 3-4 years ago

Bairstow said he wanted to join West Coast - he had no interest whatsoever in playing for an Eastern States club

However he said Graham Moss was the head honcho - the head recruiting guy for the Eagles at the time - and that Moss didnt rate him ( Bairstow ) as a footballer at all - and had zero interest in signing him to the Eagles - thus Bairstow looked elsewhere - and because of his rural upbringing - he chose Geelong

Thus i would hardly call that " raided"

Maybe in his case, but others such as Buckenara, Bewick and others were told the Eagles weren't going to get off the ground, so signed up to play with VFL clubs instead.

 

[ConcreteWaters]

State team? Sounds like what my Dockers mates say when they whinge about their lack of success over their first 20 years. What a load of rubbish.
I'd be surprised if Victorian recruiters had heard of WA back in 1986 when the club was being formed. I think we did pretty bloody well to assemble a competitive team (in less than 6 months) and build a history that we can be proud of. We built an extremely solid football club structure that many clubs have modelled and would become the standard for clubs in the 90's and early 2000's (Brian Cooke the magician- I don't think it's any coincidence that his governance happened to occur around the same time the Eagles, then Geelong were dominant). Good management, not being gifted a state team, was the difference.

 

[holy diver]

Of course WCE were a state team in the 80's and best part of the 90's. It's no mystery or revelation.

I enjoy reading some WC posters revisionism attacking others and claiming this not be the case.

I'm not sure why they are so uncomfortable with this tbh.

 

[kane249]

Of course WCE were a state team in the 80's and best part of the 90's. It's no mystery or revelation.

I enjoy reading some WC posters revisionism attacking others and claiming this not be the case.

I'm not sure why they are so uncomfortable with this tbh.

Read post 3, get back to us when you do.

 

[holy diver]

Read post 3, get back to us when you do.

Read the internets. Get back to me when you do.

 

[Smoooothy]

State reps from Adelaide
1992 - 7 (Bickley, Maynard, McDermott, Modra, Pittman, Saliba, Smart)
1993 - 10 (Anderson, Bickley, Hart, A.Jarman, McDermott, McGuinness, Modra, Pittman, Robran, Smart)
1994 - 10 (Anderson, Hart, Jameson, A.Jarman, McDermott, Modra, Rehn, Ricciuto, Smart, Tregenza)
1995 - 10 (Bickley, Hart, A.Jarman, McDermott, McKinnon, Pittman, Ricciuto, Smart, Tregenza, Wellman)
1996 - 7 (Bickley, Hart, Liptak, Modra, Ricciuto, Robran, Smart)

So nothing like the heights West Coast reached and it should also be noted that quite a few of the best SA reps weren't playing for the Crows like Kernahan, Carey, Platten, D.Jarman and Wanganeen. The same can't really be said about the Eagles in the early 90s.

must admit, I thought there were more crows than that in 92 and 93

 

[kane249]

Read the internets. Get back to me when you do.

Ok so let's keep it simple for you then.
-We didn't get exclusive access to the '86 SOO state team
-The WAFL was raided before we joined the comp as players were lied to and said we weren't going to get our license, so joined Vic teams instead
-We got given a playing list of 37, less than the 52 the other teams got

So explain to me how we were some super state team then?

 

[Kwality]

Read the internets. Get back to me when you do.

The 80s: you are a joke.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

If I remember the story correctly Peter Wilson was just one of the WAFL boys threatened with never playing in the VFL if they didn't sign up before the Eagles were granted a licence, and lied to by the VFL telling them would never be a Perth team, only for it to be announced after they'd pillaged the WAFL.

 

[greennick]

You drafted 5 or so stars with picks over 100 because you hid them from recruiters. It was draft tempering in the extreme. How do you not see that?

How were they hidden? They were in plain sight in the WAFL and missed by Victorian teams with no WA based recruiters.

 

[greennick]

Western Australians are more parochial than South Australians

Particularly relevant that South Australians generally are more keen to leave SA than West Australians are to leave WA.

 

[greennick]

Read the internets. Get back to me when you do.

Are you going to provide any information to retort post 3 or do you have nothing?

 

[greennick]

This is an interesting question, because you could argue we were a state team out of the fact at the peak, about half of the best players from our state played for our team. However, almost all those players could have been picked up by Eastern States clubs, but were not. We didn't have many top players come home and we didn't have exclusive picks to most of those players. Victorian clubs just sucked at drafting WA players and they allowed us to assemble a fantastic list of West Australian talent. We were a predominantly WA team, but even at the peak it was only around half of WA's best playing for us. It is also impossible to tell if those players would have been as good being developed by the Eastern States clubs, which did not have as advanced strength and fitness programs.

For me, I don't think we were a state team for these reasons. I can see why people make a blanket statement that it was, however I think objectively looking at the way we were constructed and the WA talent that didn't play for us you can easily conclude we were not a state team, but we were dominated by WA players.

 

[Matchu]

Ok so let's keep it simple for you then.
-We didn't get exclusive access to the '86 SOO state team
-The WAFL was raided before we joined the comp as players were lied to and said we weren't going to get our license, so joined Vic teams instead
-We got given a playing list of 37, less than the 52 the other teams got

So explain to me how we were some super state team then?

Let's just put this to bed because people seem to be trying to rewrite history on both sides. This is what happened to the famous '86 WA state team:

Mark Bairstow - South Fremantle (recruited to Geelong in 1987)
Leon Baker - Essendon (recruited from Swan Districts in 1984)
Wayne Blackwell - Carlton (recruited from Claremont in 1984)
Gary Buckenara - Hawthorn (recruited from Subiaco in 1982)
Peter Davidson - Claremont (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Shane Ellis - East Fremantle (recruited to West Coast in 1989)
Ross Glendinning - North Melbourne (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Brad Hardie - Footscray (recruited from South Fremantle in 1985)
Paul Harding - East Fremantle (recruited to Hawthorn in 1987)
Laurie Keene - Subiaco (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Dean Laidley - West Perth (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Dwayne Lamb - Subiaco (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Rod Lester-Smith - Hawthorn (recruited from East Fremantle in 1984)
Andrew Macnish - Subiaco (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Geoff Miles - Claremont (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Phil Narkle - St Kilda (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Brian Peake - East Fremantle (recruited by Geelong 1981-85)
Maurice Rioli - Richmond (recruited from South Fremantle in 1982)
Dean Turner - Fitzroy (recruited to West Coast in 1987)
Chris Waterman - East Fremantle (recruited to West Coast in 1988)
Peter Wilson - East Fremantle (recruited to Richmond in 1987)

• Players in bold switched clubs in 1987.

So nine of those players were already in the VFL and the Eagles managed to convince Glendinning, Narkle and Turner to come home for their inaugural 1987 season. Of the 12 WAFL players, nine were recruited to the Eagles between 1987-89. The remaining three (Bairstow, Harding and Wilson) went to Victoria but both Harding and Wilson ended up back in WA with the Eagles in the early 90s and became premiership players for West Coast.

So of the players that weren't already in the VFL from the '86 WA team, the Eagles only failed to get Bairstow. Fair enough, Bairstow was a very good player but when you consider how many players the Eagles did get from that '86 team it hardly looks like gigantic raid some Eagles supporters are making it out to be.

13 of those 21 players from the '86 WA state team ended up playing for the Eagles at some point in the late 80s/early 90s.

 

[kane249]

So nine of those players were already in the VFL and the Eagles managed to convince Glendinning, Narkle and Turner to come home for their inaugural 1987 season. Of the 12 WAFL players, nine were recruited to the Eagles between 1987-89. The remaining three (Bairstow, Harding and Wilson) went to Victoria but both Harding and Wilson ended up back in WA with the Eagles in the early 90s and became premiership players for West Coast.

So of the players that weren't already in the VFL from the '86 WA team, the Eagles only failed to get Bairstow. Fair enough, Bairstow was a very good player but when you consider how many players the Eagles did get from that '86 team it hardly looks like gigantic raid some Eagles supporters are making it out to be.

13 of those 21 players from the '86 WA state team ended up playing for the Eagles at some point in the late 80s/early 90s.

You were lamenting the fact the Crows didn't get the likes of Kernaham, Bradley, Carey (dubious as he had as much of a pull to NSW), Platten, Jarman (who you did get in the end) and Wanganeen (who came home to Port) but which big names stars did we miss out on?

Have a look at the list above and the players we missed out on (Buckenara, Rioli, Hardie, Peake) and you will see we didn't exactly get the cream of the crop either.

 

[Forward Press]

If we had to trade to get Wilson and Harding back, I'd hardly count that as a concession to West Coast.