West Coast are the only non VIC club to win a premiership without concessions

[Taper]

Apart from West Coast in 2006 and 2018, none of the non VIC clubs have won a premiership without concessions.
Lets look at all the other non VIC premierships.

West Coast 1992/1994 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the WAFL.
Adelaide 1997/1998 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Brisbane 2001/2002/2003 - retention and cost of living allowances, hand picked quality from Fitzroy's list after the 'merger'.
Port 2004 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Sydney 2005/2012 - cost of living allowance, paying their players 10% more than other clubs were able to.

It's no coincidence the only non VIC club to win premierships without concessions happens to be the richest and most resourced club in the country, even then both those grand finals were decided by a coin flip and could have easily gone the other way.
Does this prove non VIC clubs are at a disadvantage compared to VIC clubs? Or does it prove non VIC clubs simply haven't been good enough and need to get better?

In my opinion it's a bit of both, non VIC clubs have had their chances eg Port and Brisbane in recent years but haven't taken them. At the same time non VIC clubs making poor decisions certainly doesn't help eg GWS sticking with Leon Cameron

Leon Cameron

Age

51

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

20.8

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

as their coach for as long as they did.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Freddy Swift]

Apart from West Coast in 2006 and 2018, none of the non VIC clubs have won a premiership without concessions.
Lets look at all the other non VIC premierships.

West Coast 1992/1994 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the WAFL.
Adelaide 1997/1998 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Brisbane 2001/2002/2003 - retention and cost of living allowances, hand picked quality from Fitzroy's list after the 'merger'.
Port 2004 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Sydney 2005/2012 - cost of living allowance, paying their players 10% more than other clubs were able to.

It's no coincidence the only non VIC club to win premierships without concessions happens to be the richest and most resourced club in the country, even then both those grand finals were decided by a coin flip and could have easily gone the other way.
Does this prove non VIC clubs are at a disadvantage compared to VIC clubs? Or does it prove non VIC clubs simply haven't been good enough and need to get better?

In my opinion it's a bit of both, non VIC clubs have had their chances eg Port and Brisbane in recent years but haven't taken them. At the same time non VIC clubs making poor decisions certainly doesn't help eg GWS sticking with Leon Cameron

Leon Cameron

Age

51

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

20.8

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

as their coach for as long as they did.

What are your thoughts?

Aren’t there enough threads already about the poor non-Vic clubs? Just another opportunity for them to complain about the travel, the F/S rule, GF’s at the ‘G and VICBIAS.

 

[r_boy]

They tanked pretty hard for Naitanui in 2008 didn't they?

Were top 4 the previous year then 11th the year after.

Seemed pretty out of place at the time, even acknowledging all the coke and meth etc.

But yes, this wasn't a 'concession'.

 

[kerrazy]

We didn't have first choice of players from the WAFL when we started. It was raided by the Vic teams before we had the chance and we were left with the scraps.

 

[Mr Meow]

We didn't have first choice of players from the WAFL when we started. It was raided by the Vic teams before we had the chance and we were left with the scraps.

If that was scraps maybe the WAFL should have become the AFL. Hell of a side.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

They tanked pretty hard for Naitanui in 2008 didn't they?

Were top 4 the previous year then 11th the year after.

Seemed pretty out of place at the time, even acknowledging all the coke and meth etc.

But yes, this wasn't a 'concession'.

Bottom 4 in 2008, bottom 6 in 2009, then bottom in 2010.

Was 2010 a tank too?

 

[BigVic]

Was 2010 a tank too?

You guys got Shuey as a PP in 2008 and Darling also as a PP in 2010

 

[Snarls Barkley]

They tanked pretty hard for Naitanui in 2008 didn't they?

Were top 4 the previous year then 11th the year after.

Seemed pretty out of place at the time, even acknowledging all the coke and meth etc.

But yes, this wasn't a 'concession'.

Which Premiership did Naitanui help win?

 

[Caligo]

Shuey was a PP in the 2018 GF.

 

[ioppolo]

You guys got Shuey as a PP in 2008 and Darling also as a PP in 2010

Darling was pick 26. Hard tank on that one.

 

[big_e]

Apart from West Coast in 2006 and 2018, none of the non VIC clubs have won a premiership without concessions.
Lets look at all the other non VIC premierships.

West Coast 1992/1994 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the WAFL.
Adelaide 1997/1998 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Brisbane 2001/2002/2003 - retention and cost of living allowances, hand picked quality from Fitzroy's list after the 'merger'.
Port 2004 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Sydney 2005/2012 - cost of living allowance, paying their players 10% more than other clubs were able to.

It's no coincidence the only non VIC club to win premierships without concessions happens to be the richest and most resourced club in the country, even then both those grand finals were decided by a coin flip and could have easily gone the other way.
Does this prove non VIC clubs are at a disadvantage compared to VIC clubs? Or does it prove non VIC clubs simply haven't been good enough and need to get better?

In my opinion it's a bit of both, non VIC clubs have had their chances eg Port and Brisbane in recent years but haven't taken them. At the same time non VIC clubs making poor decisions certainly doesn't help eg GWS sticking with Leon Cameron as their coach for as long as they did.

What are your thoughts?

West Coast won the 2006 premiership without concessions?

Except for their captain, who was a priority pick....

 

[oak79]

West Coast won the 2006 premiership without concessions?

Except for their captain, who was a priority pick....

You're kind of proving his point.

Almost impossible for Non-vic teams to win it

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

West Coast won the 2006 premiership without concessions?

Except for their captain, who was a priority pick....

If the 2001 era priority pick rules didn't exist in 2001, we still would have taken Judd with pick 3, which was the "natural" pick we had based on ladder position, but we wouldn't have taken Sampi at 5 or 6 it whatever he was drafted at.

So yes, he was a priority pick, but if no one had priority picks that year, we still would have had pick 3, and still would have drafted Judd.

 

[Caligo]

If the 2001 era priority pick rules didn't exist in 2001, we still would have taken Judd with pick 3, which was the "natural" pick we had based on ladder position, but we wouldn't have taken Sampi at 5 or 6 it whatever he was drafted at.

So yes, he was a priority pick, but if no one had priority picks that year, we still would have had pick 3, and still would have drafted Judd.

I never understand why people don't get that.

It is the same with my club, people always saying that rough or bud was our priority pick, when we already had the picks to draft them both before our PP. Jordan Lewis was the extra guy we wouldn't have gotten in 2004 anyway (and beau dowler in 2005).

 

[Upgrayedd]

Actually not true
In 1989 clubs were not allowed to take multiple players from the Wafl. Hence why Dean Kemp went 117. Literally no club could take him.

Thread is a little ignorant.

 

[the harry]

Apart from West Coast in 2006 and 2018, none of the non VIC clubs have won a premiership without concessions.
Lets look at all the other non VIC premierships.

West Coast 1992/1994 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the WAFL.
Adelaide 1997/1998 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Brisbane 2001/2002/2003 - retention and cost of living allowances, hand picked quality from Fitzroy's list after the 'merger'.
Port 2004 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Sydney 2005/2012 - cost of living allowance, paying their players 10% more than other clubs were able to.

It's no coincidence the only non VIC club to win premierships without concessions happens to be the richest and most resourced club in the country, even then both those grand finals were decided by a coin flip and could have easily gone the other way.
Does this prove non VIC clubs are at a disadvantage compared to VIC clubs? Or does it prove non VIC clubs simply haven't been good enough and need to get better?

In my opinion it's a bit of both, non VIC clubs have had their chances eg Port and Brisbane in recent years but haven't taken them. At the same time non VIC clubs making poor decisions certainly doesn't help eg GWS sticking with Leon Cameron as their coach for as long as they did.

What are your thoughts?

Even though this is pro West Coast, the start up concessions in the 80's are crap.

Eagles got the dregs after VFL gave notice and stripped the experienced players previously.

The Eagles just stumbled on the idea of extreme youth that coincided with particularly strong pathways at the time.

 

[1990crow]

So you're telling me we should be looking into the advantages Victorian teams get?

Might be an idea.

 

[big_e]

If the 2001 era priority pick rules didn't exist in 2001, we still would have taken Judd with pick 3, which was the "natural" pick we had based on ladder position, but we wouldn't have taken Sampi at 5 or 6 it whatever he was drafted at.

So yes, he was a priority pick, but if no one had priority picks that year, we still would have had pick 3, and still would have drafted Judd.

Too simplistic to think of it that way.

Having an extra pick allows you to do things differently.

If there were no priority picks, do Fremantle trade out pick 1? If they only have one pick in the first round, does West Coast want to risk the Victorian kid with injury concerns or do they just take the best West Australian Polak instead?

There's sliding doors all over the place.

The only thing we know for certain is that West Coast were granted pick 3 as a priority pick, and with pick 3 they selected Chris Judd.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Too simplistic to think of it that way.

Having an extra pick allows you to do things differently.

If there were no priority picks, do Fremantle trade out pick 1? If they only have one pick in the first round, does West Coast want to risk the Victorian kid with injury concerns or do they just take the best West Australian Polak instead?

There's sliding doors all over the place.

The only thing we know for certain is that West Coast were granted pick 3 as a priority pick, and with pick 3 they selected Chris Judd.

Over 20 years later and people are still wondering if we'd overlook the more highly-regarded Victorian in favour of the less highly-regarded, but taller Western Australian

The short answer is no.

 

[ibd77]

Port 2004 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.

So what your saying there is that the SANFL is a comparable league to the AFL and the squad we chose to enter into the AFL in 1997 was full of AFL level talented players? Hmmm interesting.

Port Adelaide Playing List for 1997 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[bh90210fan]

Actually not true
In 1989 clubs were not allowed to take multiple players from the Wafl. Hence why Dean Kemp went 117. Literally no club could take him.

Thread is a little ignorant.

Every club had a chance to take him

 

[Forward Press]

Actually not true
In 1989 clubs were not allowed to take multiple players from the Wafl. Hence why Dean Kemp went 117. Literally no club could take him.

Thread is a little ignorant.

Time to trot this one out again. I bolded the 1989 section (great year) to emphasise how every club could take Dean Kemp - they just chose not to. This was from a WAFL that had already been pillaged in the previous three seasons of all identified talent.

West Coast in the early 90s just got incredibly lucky with talented youth WAFL coming through as in that time talent identification particularly from eastern states sides was amateur. It wouldn't happen now.

Was the inaugural WCE team a state team?

I was born in the early 90's so I don't know much about this topic. On this forum whenever our 92 and 94 premiership is brought up, there's always someone who says that we were 'essentially a state team'. I was wondering if anyone could clarify this, maybe a link to a video of our history or an...

www.bigfooty.com

A WA state side?

In 1986 the WA State of Origin side played Victoria in July.

Of the 22 in that side, the following players were on the Eagles list at the start of 1987:

Geoff Miles, Shane Ellis, Dean Laidley, Ross Glendinning, Peter Davidson, Phil Narkle, Andrew MacNish, Laurie Keene, Dwayne Lamb, Colin Waterson. Thats 10.

The 12 players who werent on our list were Brad Hardie, Rod Lester-Smith, Leon Baker, Gary Buckenara, Peter Sartori, Peter Wilson, Brian Peake, Maurice Rioli, Michael Mitchell, Wayne Blackwell, Paul Harding, Mark Bairstow.

In other words the Eagles got the fringe players left after the VFL teams took the cream.

Of those 10 players, precisely one played in a Premiership for West Coast (Dwayne Lamb). 2 of the players who went to Victoria were subsequently traded back to West Coast (in normal trade deals) and both played in premiership sides (Wilson 92, 94 & Harding 92).

The following West Australians (off the top of my head) were playing for other VFL sides in 1987:

Jim Krakouer, Phil Krakouer, Mike Richardson, Michael Christian, Craig Starcevich, John Ironmonger, Wayne Henwood, Craig Holden, Simon Beasley, Phil Cronan, Andrew Purser, Murray Rance, Warren Dean, Earl Spalding, Alan Johnson, Steve Turner, Nicky Winmar, Jon Dorotich, Bill Duckworth, Ken Judge, Ken Hunter, Richard Dennis etc

So apart from those 22 and the 12 from our SOO side of 86 (thats 34 players by the way) West Coasts initial list of 37 was a state side

In case some arent across history, the Eagles commenced with a list of 37 players v existing VFL sides which had 52. It is true that we had first choice of WAFL players at the end of 1986 but this was only after the other sides had delayed the entry of the Eagles so that players including Wilson, Sartori, Dennis, Winmar, Bairstow, Mitchell, Spalding, Christian, Starcevich and Dean, were first signed by VFL teams before the Eagles were granted a licence. So we got the best 37 players from the WAFL after the best 10 from 1986 were already signed up by Vic clubs. Given that 10 players from WA would be a good number in the annual draft, the balance were essentially the leftovers, late round picks if you like.

At the end of 1987, we did not participate in the draft but instead again got unrestricted access to the WAFL. The same WAFL that in the previous season had 47 players taken from it i.e. there wasnt much left.

At the end of 1988, the Eagles got 5 priority picks (again WAFL only) and then took place in a draft that was compromised in that all the other clubs could only take 1 player each from the WAFL (huge concession )

In 1989, we were down to 2 pre-draft selections (compare this with Brisbane's 6 and Sydneys 4). Again, all teams were then restricted to one WAFL player, this resulted in the unusual situation of 6 of the first 9 picks being from WA. West Coast with its normal first round pick at 4 (based on finsihing 4th last in 1988) got Matera. Then players such as Brad Rowe, Mark Brayshaw, Stephen Edgar, Brad Tunbridge, Dale Kickett, Ben Allan, Gavin Rose, Peter Cransberg & Dennis Repacholi were picked up before West Coast got Tony Evans (64), Brett Heady (92), Dean Kemp (117).... So every club passed on those 3. No concession at all.

1990, West Coast got 2 pre-draft picks, again, Sydney got 6 and Brisbane 5.

The Eagles pre-draft picks and the concessions on WAFL picks (one per club) were to compensate for the Eagles having a smaller list than other clubs (15 players less) and to allow that list to be lifted up over a 5 year period to limit damage that would be inflicted on the WAFL if they had just allowed 50 in year one + unlimited drafts thereafter. It wasnt a concession as such, it was a drip system to allow us to build our list to the same size as other clubs over an extended period and limit WAFL damage. The Eagles last pre-draft pick was in 1991. Remember, these picks werent the number 1 pick in Australia but rather the best player in WA from a comp that had been decimated - and has never recovered.

The Eagles skill/luck in its first 5 years was that the predatory behaviour pre West Coast of VFL clubs and the delay in its introduction in 1986, forced them to take on a ton of unproven kids. This was extended over a 5 year period by the list size restriction which was dealt with by given us priority access to a couple of WAFL players each year for 4 years. Basically, we were forced into a situation of picking up the best kids in WA over a 4 year period which just happened to coincide with the best WA Under 18 side in history. We inadvertently stumbled on the recipe for building a good side - draft as many talented kids as possible in a short time frame. We were assisted in this by the abject amateurism of VFL sides re the draft at that stage that saw them overlook some talented kids. I mean 3 guys got drafted ahead of Matera and every club overlooked Kemp & Heady all in the one draft.

West Coast of the early 90's was a great side because it drafted lots of kids and came up with the formula that works in the draft era.

We were nowhere near gifted a state side. A state side was the 35+ gun WA players running around for other sides in 1987.

I mean imagine is we had started with a real state side:

Leon Baker, Maurice Rioli, Gary Buckenara, Phil Krakouer, Jim Krakouer, Nicky Winmar, Brad Hardie, Simon Beasley, Earl Spalding, Peter Sartori, Andrew Purser, Ken Hunter, Wayne Blackwell, Mark Bairstow, Rod Lester-Smith, Jon Dorotich, Bill Duckworth, Michael Christian, Michael Mitchell, etc

Then you would have had something to whinge about!

 

[big_e]

Thirteen clubs only being able to take one WAFL player each, and the other being able to choose as many as they like, means that one club received a concession.

And yes, everyone passed over Dean Kemp, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that some of the clubs that picked a WAFL player early may have chosen him later in the draft if he was available to them.

 

[bh90210fan]

Thirteen clubs only being able to take one WAFL player each, and the other being able to choose as many as they like, means that one club received a concession.

And yes, everyone passed over Dean Kemp, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that some of the clubs that picked a WAFL player early may have chosen him later in the draft if he was available to them.

13 WA players is more than get taken in just about any draft.

 

[Forward Press]

Thirteen clubs only being able to take one WAFL player each, and the other being able to choose as many as they like, means that one club received a concession.

And yes, everyone passed over Dean Kemp, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that some of the clubs that picked a WAFL player early may have chosen him later in the draft if he was available to them.

If a draft year had 13 players taken from the WAFL, that would be considered an outstanding crop from the WAFL, and a particular club being given access to the dregs would not be considered a 'concession'. It's sloppy seconds, to borrow a crude term.

Dean Kemp was not rated highly enough clearly to be in that top 13 so it's hardly a rort or unfair that he slipped to us at 117.