What are some of the biggest pieces of revisionist history in the AFL?

[FootyLad0]

By my calculations, I reckon he's kicked 9 or 10 starting off the wing and the rest out of a forward pocket.

Thanks for sharing, I hadn't watched this one for a few years, I bet you enjoyed it as much as I did watching the Great One go to work.

Watch him now spin it now to act like you didn't just completely call out his bullshit lol

Oh wait, he's already done that for 6 pages.
Bloke is not the full quid.

 

[FootyLad0]

That game plan along with the fact that in 2010 a Geelong dynasty team was being coached by a burned out drug dealer enabled us to get the flag. Geelong got their shit together and worked out our gameplan in 2011 and beat us 3 times.

Which leads to more revisionist history.

That Chris Scott was "handed" a flag.
According to all of the guys there in 2011, the club was at a crossroads.

Gaz Jr at the time the best player in the game and possibly the modern GOAT walked out on the club as did Bomber.
Chris came in as a 30 something year old coach and instilled an entirely new culture and game plan that was nothing like what Bomber had run.

Lingy spoke about this the other day on "The Final Bell" podcast.
The players feared Bomber. He had an authoritarian rule over the players and demanded absolute perfection from them.
Chris was the complete opposite.

The guy is all about optimism, he says it a hundred times during his pressers.
He believes in running the club and treating the players like grown adults. Giving them autonomy over their free time and letting the reigns be loosened. On field he had a meticulous game plan but off it he was a players coach through and through.
Probably why Geelong has been ranked number 1 in recent article of "happiest place to play footy"

Mooney, Selwood, Bartel and the like have said without Chris coming in, Cats don't win 2011.

 

[Stottzy]

That Don Scott saved Hawthorn. Ian Dicker was our true hero. Turned us into the powerhouse we are today.

 

[BF Tiger]

Well duh!

The prevailing thought was if Collingwood had’ve got over Geelong in the prelim (it was a 5 point ball game with nothing in it all game) then the Pies would have only had to have turned up to beat the Port side in the GF like Geelong ended up doing. Clearly I think that wasn’t true as stated.

Geelong not being the best team in 2007 wasn’t even up for debate or relevant to my point.

It’s not really revisionist history to imagine up something that never happened. The history part of revisionist implies that something actually happened first and the revisionist part is the re-assessment of causes and factors involved in the creation of that history.

Maybe plonk your thoughts in the parallel universe thread.

 

[Rotayjay]

Unpopular opinion: it's revisionist history to say that the Western Bulldogs only won the 2016 flag due to umpiring. It was an even season, they had injuries before finals, they won four finals in which they started underdogs and beat the Swans fair and square. Some people are just jealous.

 

[cherrypie]

Unpopular opinion: it's revisionist history to say that the Western Bulldogs only won the 2016 flag due to umpiring. It was an even season, they had injuries before finals, they won four finals in which they started underdogs and beat the Swans fair and square. Some people are just jealous.

If you go back to the Autopsy thread on the main board, there’s no mention of umpires until about 5 pages in when a Sydney supporter complains.

I think most people now just assume it was rigged because that’s all they hear. If there was actually a conspiracy, they wouldn’t have overturned a late Dogs goal with insufficient evidence - but people probably forgot about that and all they hear about is a Hannebery free kick missed on the wing with over 20 minutes to go.

Libba taking Kennedy, Boyd taking contested marks and Sydney’s forwards having no impact was the difference.

 

[jwint43]

Pains me to say this, but the idea that the Saints would just roll the Pies in extra time in 2010 if it happened. I know players from both teams have said that is what would have happened, but after a break and a short rest, there's no guarentee the momentum we had just carries on. I think some Saints fans and players say it to rationalise the draw and feel better about what came after it.

 

[jwint43]

Literally every single 90's GF was an uncompetitive blowout and the acquisition of indigenous talent was still very limited. The average team had the mental fortitude of a pea, and a lot of the star goalkickers people so fondly talk about happened to be on dogshit teams no one wanted to watch, if that's not revisionism I don't know what is. 90's just became the new starting point for a lot of people as we aged up and everyone overlooks what sucked about it, everyone has a different golden era.

Besides the 80's I think the opposite, people are way more likely to wank about 90's footy compared to 80's footy where there are some pretty obvious flaws, it was mid and so were the early 00's that were basically the same. I totally get the argument because the rules enabled individual cases of more pleasing footy, it was the era before rule changes were normalised and it epitomised what we think of when it comes to football, but the overall talent pool went to another level by the time the Cats exploded, Bulldogs and St Kilda in 2008 could've won GF's in the 90's on pure talent, easily. People point to a few of our own uncompetitive GF's, but we were an absolute monster team and without such a strong competition we would've strolled to success before 2013 despite lacking elite options at FB and Ruck, not a problem for many modern teams.

I could not agree more. It was a perfect storm of the tactical side going to another level combined with the insane talent that the top teams of that era possessed. The Dogs, Cats, Saints, Pies of that 08-11 era played some of the highest level of football that has been seen (and the Hawks in patches). Then the Hawks took the blueprint and went to another level.

That Dogs side probably wins a flag in any other time period, and the fact the Saints didn't get one with the amount of A grade talent shows how insanely competitive it was at the top.

 

[jwint43]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but Luke Hodge being underrated as a player.

This is probably more of a thing among my friends but I'm keen to see what the intelligentsia on here think.

A lot of people I've spoken to regard him as an upgraded version of Nick Maxwell: solid role player but a great on field general. These people must either have short memories or they never really watched the game before 2016. Hodge was one of the best utilities of his generation in addition to being one of the greatest captains in the history of the game. He deserves way more respect than he gets. Maybe his punditry work makes people think less of him as a player.

He was a tough, old school player and because he played on the edge (unsociable hawks) he was perceived as a dirty player. He had mulitple hits/moments that stood out in the modern game and many fans didn't like him because of this. I remember him lining up Wingard's head against the post and also something with Swallow from North and his reputation was severely damaged because of this. As those memories fade and the emotion attached to them only the premierships and the resume is what will be remembered.

 

[yodellinhank]

Riewoldt and Milne alone in the 50 isn't a forward press. Lyon evolved a very ugly form of the flood, which has existed in many boring forms for decades.

I first saw the flood when Hawthorn pantsed Essendon in about 1992. It was over by half time (memory says it was more than 10 goals, maybe 14?) so Sheedy had 16 men behind centre and jagged 2 lucky goals in the third quarter.

Malthouse's Pies manned up in the forward 50, 7 or 8 men if need be and beat the ugly Sydney flood regularly in the early 2000s. Ross Lyon was a different dog but it was the same ****.

Saints most definitely pressed around 08-09. It was the reason we managed to beat them, because Matty Knights had us playing that kamikaze handball gameplan. All the bottom sides beat us because they actually prepared for the way we were playing and folded back, we ran into trouble and had to dispose under pressure to opposition numbers. Nobody could understand how we beat the unbeatable saints, it was because they played so high that if we broke a line we were through into space, loads of it.

A couple for Essendon regarding coaches, though not big on the AFL stage.

For opposite reasons… I’ve heard plenty of people actually say the Matthew Knights was a good coach who was stiff to be sacked by Essendon.

Tbf it’s mostly Richmond supporters talking about a favourite son.

Knights was a terrible coach with zero tactical nous. His card was marked a very long way out at Essendon.

On the other side, Ben Rutten. I know Essendon people who say he was a terrible coach. I certainly don’t think you can say that… we looked very good in 2021 in his first season, playing some of the best footy we’d played in many, many years. We recovered from a 1-4 start to play some great footy and make the finals.

We then had a poor start for 2022 and that was it for him… he started to be undermined in the boardroom by a few directors who thought they were going to supercharge the club by bringing in Clarkson (christ, imagine) and was gone. Sacked after one poor run of games, very harsh as a coach.

I think he showed a bit and he’s still only 41, would like to see him get another chance.

I'm not going to say Knights wasn't shit, he was most definitely that, but I'm not certain about zero tactical nous. He was just too stubborn to shift from his view of the gameplan he believed in. As above, I reckon he had some of the makings of what Richmond developed much later. I even remember Prismal running down a wing guarding space by himself, shaking his head and looking over at the bench in frustration he couldn't effect a contest. Like there was a line he wanted to but wasn't allowed to cross. The OG fatside role.

It was a plan that was designed to beat the press which had only just became the game plan du jour after the floods of the early-mid 00s.

The fault with Knights is he made them stick to that plan when not faced with a press. You could just put Yakety Sax on and watch the bloopers pile up as we needlessly ran ourselves into trouble.

Rutten seemed to do well building the club back up and restoring pride in the place, but tactically seemed clueless. Was never going to be able to rehash what worked at Richmond with the list he had to work with at Essendon (as in player types). He seemed utterly confused as to why we weren't winning or playing our best football. His inability to provide answers to what was going wrong or how he was going to turn things around hastened his demise.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Chris Scott being “handed” his first premiership in 2011 is something I’ve continually read on this forum over the years, very much revisionist history. The truth is he took over an ageing team who got smashed (and was down by as much as 80 points) in a Prelim final to a much younger team, and having lost the best player in the league, & quite possibly this century, at the time. His change of game style to more long kicking & much less handballing enabled us to turn the tables on the Pies & win that years flag, not just rocking up & letting the players run the show as some people will make you believe.

Yeah anyone who watched us playing impotent handball-ring-a-rosie in the 2010 prelim could never say with a straight face that Scott "did nothing" in 2011.

Our game style had seriously been worked out, and we needed some fundamental changes. Scott gave us that. Another season with Bomber and we'd probably have finished lower half of the 8.

 

[BF Tiger]

Regarding Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

and the 2011 flag it's a bit of column A and a lot of column B.

Column A is he was a new coach and steered the ship and implemented some change and dealt with a midfield that no longer had GAJ in it.

Column B was he inherited a team that only had:

• won 2 of the previous four flags and played off for another,
• a team that had finished second by 1/2 a game and with the best % in 2010 that only lost in the prelim final to the eventual premier
• produced 9 AAs in 2007 (9 in AA squad)
• produced 7 AAs in 2008 (10 in AA squad)
• produced 5 AAs in 2009 (8 in AA squad)
• produced 6 AAs in 2010 (7 in squad)
• produced 14 different AA players in the preceding four seasons (07-10)
• of which 11 were available and played a minimum of eight games (missing Egan, Harley, GAJ)
• with 3 future AAs already on the list and established (Kelly, Mackie, Hawkins)
• a list with 19(?) premiership players on it at the start of 2011
• and yes, had lost GAJ, but saved a million dollars a year to spend (retain) on other players

So give Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

his credit. For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him and it is just rubbish. You people. All of you. All of you. It's just rubbish. Leave him alone.

 

[sparklig]

He was a tough, old school player and because he played on the edge (unsociable hawks) he was perceived as a dirty player. He had mulitple hits/moments that stood out in the modern game and many fans didn't like him because of this. I remember him lining up Wingard's head against the post and also something with Swallow from North and his reputation was severely damaged because of this. As those memories fade and the emotion attached to them only the premierships and the resume is what will be remembered.

Why didn't crowds boo Hodge every game after these incidents?

 

[errant bounce]

Really??

Remember when EVERY team was flooding in the mid 2000s? Literally everybody was moaning about the state of the game and wishing we were back in the late 90s.

That Richmond game, the one where they took a world record amount of marks by playing keepings off reminds me of football in the 2000s.

'World record.'

 

[errant bounce]

Andrew McLeod and Fremantle.

He never ever wanted to come and basically got to choose to stay in Adelaide.

We've made some blunders but this one is over-discussed. we were dead keen on him and as Neesham said: 'a skilful Indigenous player? I wanted a team full of that.'

 

[Rotayjay]

I've got to say: this is one of the best main board thread ideas for a long time.

 

[basashi]

What is legitimately amazing is that it wasn't until 1894 that there was even a proper fixture with every team played the same amount of games.

For that reason alone, you can't take anything before that in a serious premiership count. I've always thought the same thing - 1897 is the starting point.

So for me, Geelong the club have won 17 premierships. But we have won 10 VFL/AFL premierships.

You don't have to go too far back to find footy of an utterly incomparable nature. Plenty of early coaching didn't involve much more than lighting the players cigarettes and saying things like "cobber" or "fair dinkum" ... before ordering a couple of king hits and going back to sit in the shade. Coaching 150 games now is a very different thing to coaching 200 games back then.

It depends if you are talking about "history" or actually comparable stats. Not many things from the modern era really compare with the 1930s. Perhaps lot of records should really only be compared to a rolling 50 year window. Even then, the game was so different in the 70s - can counts of kicks, possessions, goals, games played really be compared as a stat? Or is it just a record of "stuff"?

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

Not solely, but it was a decent part of it. It landed them Wade, Rantall and Davis who were all critical in 75.

It was part of an aggressive recruiting effort that won the flag - as well as those three they landed Crosswell, Blight and Cable as well as Barassi as coach.

Wade was a late in to the team on the eve of the 1975 GF having been dropped mid-season and then dropped again for the PF.

Davis and Rantall were good players but the elite core within the team by 1975 was Schimma, Greig, Dench, Kekovich, Briedis, Nolan and Burns who all came through the standard channels.

Would be hard to imagine North not winning a flag or two in the 70’s regardless of the 10 year rule.

 

[blueboy25]

Carlton are the only ones who have cheated the salary cap and should have the 95 flag taken off them.

In reality Essendon are the only ones who have been caught cheating the salary cap plus a little bit of draft tampering thrown in during a premiership.

Melbourne were also punished heavily for salary cap cheating.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Every kick inside 50 is not “the wing” mate.

The one outside 50 is directly in front. Case closed 0 out of 14 were from the wing.

Do we say Henderson’s (Def) 2017 QF goal from the goal square was a great goal “from the backline”. No

And those goals from the bench, sub and emergency are insane they aren’t even on the ground yet!!!

Holy shit! You don't think when people say he kicked them from the wing, they meant he was literally standing on a wing to kick it? Or is it meant to be a joke?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Surely the deliberate conflation of "the AFL" with "the game" has to be the biggest.

 

[The Lobbster]

Andrew McLeod and Fremantle.

He never ever wanted to come and basically got to choose to stay in Adelaide.

We've made some blunders but this one is over-discussed. we were dead keen on him and as Neesham said: 'a skilful Indigenous player? I wanted a team full of that.'

Also Matthew Lloyd. The Dockers pinched Todd Ridley from the Bombers for their initial squad as part of their deal to enter the league. Essendon as compensation got to pick a 16yr old and effectively pre-list them. There is no guarantee that the Dockers would’ve drafted Lloyd if he was available.

All this myth does is take away from an absolutely incredible bit of scouting done by Essendon as they got a 12 times leading goalscorer, 3 times Coleman medallist and 5 time all Australian out of a 16 year old.

 

[flamethrower]

That the 2021 Premiership doesn't count because it was a "covid cup" with shortened quarters and covid ridled players, and unfair advantages to Melbourne

This will come off as a bit salty, but I've been told constantly that its an asterisks flag and a lot of misinformation gets told about that year.

-Shortened quarters were a thing in 2020, not 2021. (Not that 2020 should be discredited for that either)
- Throughout the entire home and away season, teams were playing at their homegrounds and all that, it was only at finals time that the interstate hubs came back. (Again , not that that should discredit the Richmond's 2020 flag either)
-Players were heavily testing all the time, in fact I don't even think I can remember a mass exodus of players getting covid or even if any players got it at all. Some players did get Covid after the season had finished.
-Also, despite finishing on top of the ladder, Melbourne had to play all their home finals interstate, if anything that's harder and there's no way in hell you'd discount a non-vic team for winning the flag in the same manner (which they do for the most part)
- Doggies did travel around the country, but they also finished 5th. So really that one in Tassie was the only unfair one for them. They still got a 2 week break before the GF as well.

As for the fans enjoyment of it, that's another thing. A lot of Melbourne fans obviously didn't get to go so they might feel robbed of that.

But the flag is legitimate as it comes for the players, club and competition as a whole

The 2021 flag was completely deserved. The unfortunate thing for diehard Melbourne supporters is that they had to sit on their couch at home to watch the occasion, rather than in person in the MCC Members or elsewhere at the Home of Aussie Rules football.

I was so fortunate* to see the Bulldogs win the 2016 premiership in person from the Olympic Stand at the MCG, something that I will never forget.

(*Actually well planned by being a 5 decade member with a membership that guarantees a Grand Final ticket if we make it - wasn't much good in 2021 though).

 

[Demon13304]

The 2021 flag was completely deserved. The unfortunate thing for diehard Melbourne supporters is that they had to sit on their couch at home to watch the occasion, rather than in person in the MCC Members or elsewhere at the Home of Aussie Rules football.

I was so fortunate* to see the Bulldogs win the 2016 premiership in person from the Olympic Stand at the MCG, something that I will never forget.

(*Actually well planned by being a 5 decade member with a membership that guarantees a Grand Final ticket if we make it - wasn't much good in 2021 though).

A lot of the big fans don't get to go to the actual game itself, so I dont know if I would've been able to go anyway. I broke a few covid rules and had some friends and family over, still had a great night and the MCG celebration a few months later was good too.

That being said, what I did miss was hugging random Melbourne supporters, going out afterwards and celebrating hard. My missus is a mad Geelong fan and I did that with her when they won in 2022. It was honestly such a fun night despite it being Geelong lol. I'd love to do that if the Dees ever won at the G.

Overall, its a pretty strange situation for the fans. I absolutely know we've had it better than other clubs, but its just a situation that no other fanbase would understand. Especially with how we've gone since that flag. I'm someone who goes to a lot of games, and I'd really kill to just see us win a final at the MCG or even if its interstate, I'll happily fly up and be there in person

 

[Demon13304]

Comes with the territory of winning a flag mate don’t sweat it

Whatever year, some nuff will try and belittle the achievement

It drives me nuts with any flag that's been won. And I find people start to make up shit and spread misinformation about it if they don't like who won the flag.

Like I remember David Koch straight up saying that it was unfair for the Giants to have to travel to the MCG because they finished higher than the Tigers. that's a prominent AFL figure just spreading lies.

Still hated the Tigers run though lol, but demn they were good