TY24
Cripps and Bloods
All 3 breaks and pre-game?
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What can we actually use all our dollarbucks for?
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Yes, and replace the message that plays on loop when you're walking out of Optus with the big coast energy one
Optional expansion to play it over new speakers over the matagarup bridge
Inness and the S&C guys have done a great job and deserve to be rewarded.
Now that we’ve got better access to the NGA guys we should put more money into that. Someone on this board said that some recruiter feel that the draftees out of WA are among the least developed upon entering the system. The performance in the under 18 champs hardly dispel that.
I’d like to see more money going into recruiting. It was once a strength of the club.
I think we need to consider a new ruck coach. We’ve had a few rucks come into the club and seen little discernible development of their ruck craft.
Now that we’ve got better access to the NGA guys we should put more money into that. Someone on this board said that some recruiter feel that the draftees out of WA are among the least developed upon entering the system. The performance in the under 18 champs hardly dispel that.
I’d like to see more money going into recruiting. It was once a strength of the club.
I think we need to consider a new ruck coach. We’ve had a few rucks come into the club and seen little discernible development of their ruck craft.
Lunchtime
Premiership Player
- Mar 23, 2024
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Good question. I think there are a few clubs with "lots of money" in the bank like West Coast: Richmond, Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn (plus West Coast).
Ultimately the rich clubs like the Eagles even with lots of dollars in the bank, they are restricted in terms of their salary cap and there is also the soft cap which has a ceiling too, but at the end of the day all of that money is there to ensure the club survives and doesn't cease to exist. In one sense having lots of dollars is good but from an Eagles fans view you want to know what good use can some of that money be put to. Its a valid question.
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Not sure if this would fall under the soft cap, and would expect it would be a very expensive excercise, but could we set up an academy internationally? Currently there is no formal AFL framework for international academies, and thus there is no priority access to players should we set one up, however you'd hope the loop hole of Cat B might come into play, of which we would get first dibs.
Crystal balling the academy could be set up in one place e.g. South Africa, England and or US. Could offer something akin to Clontarff where we are offering a sporting sponsorship, that also provides for your education. This would tap into young athletes talent with transferable skills from rugby, soccer, athletics etc.
Alternatively we go to the AFL offering a partnership (money/development staff) to help grow/develop international talent, providing we get first access to players that go through this program
Currently the AFL has youth programs in:
NZ
Just trying to think what would not fall under the soft cap, and think dropping say $10Million over a period of time might provide access to talent we are unlikely to see in the current AFL International pathways set-up.
I also get both options are long term and expensive that may provide nothing, but I rarely if ever see us being part of the cohort of recruiters that go to the US to find the next Mason Cox etc, or Ireland to find the next Zach Tuohy which I think falls under the Salary Cap, but is something we should be invloved in.
Crystal balling the academy could be set up in one place e.g. South Africa, England and or US. Could offer something akin to Clontarff where we are offering a sporting sponsorship, that also provides for your education. This would tap into young athletes talent with transferable skills from rugby, soccer, athletics etc.
Alternatively we go to the AFL offering a partnership (money/development staff) to help grow/develop international talent, providing we get first access to players that go through this program
Currently the AFL has youth programs in:
NZ
- KiwiKick: A junior program similar to Auskick, run in schools across the country.
- Over 35,000 registered participants as of 2020.
- AFL New Zealand supports school competitions and talent pathways
- AFL South Africa runs school-based programs in provinces like Gauteng and North West.
- Focus on youth development and community engagement.
- AFL Ireland supports junior development and school clinics.
- Strong ties to Gaelic football make AFL skills highly transferable.
- USAFL runs youth clinics and modified rules programs like Ausball.
- Some schools and community clubs offer AFL as part of PE or after-school sport.
- AFL Europe supports Auskick-style programs and junior development in select schools.
- Events like the ANZAC Cup and Champions League include youth engagement.
- AFL PNG runs extensive junior competitions and school programs.
- PNG has produced elite AFL talent and regularly competes in the International Cu
Just trying to think what would not fall under the soft cap, and think dropping say $10Million over a period of time might provide access to talent we are unlikely to see in the current AFL International pathways set-up.
I also get both options are long term and expensive that may provide nothing, but I rarely if ever see us being part of the cohort of recruiters that go to the US to find the next Mason Cox etc, or Ireland to find the next Zach Tuohy which I think falls under the Salary Cap, but is something we should be invloved in.
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DeckedOut20
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The main things we can spend money on are:
Facilities: West Coast would be in the top 2 or 3 for quality of facilities, however, it is mostly kept under wraps just what is inside MRP, outside of the obvious. Having the best facilities possible is not only a great draw card for potential recruits (AFL, WAFL & AFLW), but also ensuring you can get the most out of all the players you have available to you. That covers strength and condition, recovery, game review, personal development and so on. I have read articles in the last few weeks how far Demons players have to travel between their two facilities (50km's). Bulldogs players had to travel 10 mins from their facilities any time they needed to swim as part of recovery or cardio as they didn't have those facilities (do now).
Also small things like can your players and staff park under the facilities or in secure areas where media can't door stop them etc. North Melbourne players cop significant amounts of parking fines as they have zero parking available to them.
Football Department: $7.675 million is the cap in 2025, of which we are still paying potentially $1 million to Adam Simpson this season. The cap in 2026 is increasing by $750k to $8.425mil. There is also 20% of either a senior coach or footy directors salary withheld from the cap. Arguably we should have close to $2mil worth of additional staff to join our ranks for 2026.
I am unsure if the below table is still valid, however, if we work of the basis that it is and we were to exceed the cap by $500k in 2026, we would pay $500k in staff salary & $1mil to the AFL in tax.
If we carried that same structure through to 2027, we would be $500k in staff salary & $1.5mil to the AFL in tax.
2028 would see the tax increase to $2mil.
Unfortunately, $500k might get you 3 reasonable staff members on $165k. If you sign them on three year deals, it ends up costing the club $6mil ($1.5mil in salary & $4.5mil in AFL tax), which equates to more than $666k per staff member per season.
- NGA Academy (uncapped)
- Facilities (uncapped)
- Football Department Soft Cap (capped - taxable)
Facilities: West Coast would be in the top 2 or 3 for quality of facilities, however, it is mostly kept under wraps just what is inside MRP, outside of the obvious. Having the best facilities possible is not only a great draw card for potential recruits (AFL, WAFL & AFLW), but also ensuring you can get the most out of all the players you have available to you. That covers strength and condition, recovery, game review, personal development and so on. I have read articles in the last few weeks how far Demons players have to travel between their two facilities (50km's). Bulldogs players had to travel 10 mins from their facilities any time they needed to swim as part of recovery or cardio as they didn't have those facilities (do now).
Also small things like can your players and staff park under the facilities or in secure areas where media can't door stop them etc. North Melbourne players cop significant amounts of parking fines as they have zero parking available to them.
Football Department: $7.675 million is the cap in 2025, of which we are still paying potentially $1 million to Adam Simpson this season. The cap in 2026 is increasing by $750k to $8.425mil. There is also 20% of either a senior coach or footy directors salary withheld from the cap. Arguably we should have close to $2mil worth of additional staff to join our ranks for 2026.
I am unsure if the below table is still valid, however, if we work of the basis that it is and we were to exceed the cap by $500k in 2026, we would pay $500k in staff salary & $1mil to the AFL in tax.
If we carried that same structure through to 2027, we would be $500k in staff salary & $1.5mil to the AFL in tax.
2028 would see the tax increase to $2mil.
Unfortunately, $500k might get you 3 reasonable staff members on $165k. If you sign them on three year deals, it ends up costing the club $6mil ($1.5mil in salary & $4.5mil in AFL tax), which equates to more than $666k per staff member per season.
Good PR but not materially significant. A bit likle ASKICK in 'developing states' - numbers not substance. Lots of free school,clinics etc but they dont translate into players - just free childminding for schools.
- May 5, 2006
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- Thread starter
- #34
A 400% tax for 3 years being $500k over $8m or so is just absurd.
Can we do another Sam Mitchell type deal? Maybe sign the likes of Travis Boak and Callan Ward on two year deals as playing coaches. That would cost us cap space in the short term and isn't really making use of our finances per se.
It would annoy the AFL if we signed two players that didn't end up playing a game for us.
Can we do another Sam Mitchell type deal? Maybe sign the likes of Travis Boak and Callan Ward on two year deals as playing coaches. That would cost us cap space in the short term and isn't really making use of our finances per se.
It would annoy the AFL if we signed two players that didn't end up playing a game for us.
I don't disagree that is what it is currently, but that is that because no clubs have been invested previously. it would probably cost a club bewteen $5-$6M to set-up, followed by between $1-2M per year to run, for what is unlikely to see a result for 5-6 years. High risk I get that, but there is no doubt in my mind at the very least we should be a part of the AFL trips internationally looking for talent, along with keeping tabs on players who chose other sports at 15 or 16 who were on the elite AFL pathways to see if they'd come back. Once again not sure if this fits under soft cap spending
Actually, what we should be doing is dropping membership & ticket prices - it should be comparable to the MCG clubs, not the exorbitant prices we pay now.
If the club can't spend the war chest, they shouldn't be screwing over fans.
If the club can't spend the war chest, they shouldn't be screwing over fans.
- May 5, 2006
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- Thread starter
- #37
I think we need to bring some battle-hardened experience, particularly in the age bracket of 23-28 to the club. Additionally, we're in dire need of on-field leadership, which I think has largely been left vacant since the retirement of Bunga Hurn.
I think the obvious players we're targeting are as follows:
In a draft-shallow pool (we missed a golden opportunity not to make a play for one/some of Richmond's second rounders last year IMO) I believe we only need four picks in the National Draft. We have to trade to secure the likes of Cameron, Sheldrick and Erasmus, and with a compensation pick of sorts to come in the absence of Oscar, then we've got some room to play with.
I get the hesitancy that people have about securing Unrestricted Free Agents as it will dilute any compensation picks, but I don't think the malaise of the last four seasons can be allowed to continue and we need to support our younger kids who are showing signs of PTSD.
I think the obvious players we're targeting are as follows:
- Darcy Cameron
- Brandon Starcevich
- Will Brodie
- Angus Sheldrick and
- Neil Erasmus
In a draft-shallow pool (we missed a golden opportunity not to make a play for one/some of Richmond's second rounders last year IMO) I believe we only need four picks in the National Draft. We have to trade to secure the likes of Cameron, Sheldrick and Erasmus, and with a compensation pick of sorts to come in the absence of Oscar, then we've got some room to play with.
I get the hesitancy that people have about securing Unrestricted Free Agents as it will dilute any compensation picks, but I don't think the malaise of the last four seasons can be allowed to continue and we need to support our younger kids who are showing signs of PTSD.
I think our relative poor drafting to the decade to end of 2020 is the largest reason why we're in the position we are.
The reduction of the Soft Cap would undoubtedly have contributed, but I don't think it's the prime factor.
- May 5, 2006
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- #40
How far back do you go? 2013 was Barrass and Sheed who are 30 now. TB left and Sheed had to retire. 2014 just Duggan left. TB was excellent and Sheed was good until his body fell apart. Duggan... tries hard.
2015: pick 21 for Redden, Partington, Cole, Mutimer, M Allen
2016: Venables, Rotham, Rioli, Waterman
2017: Brander, O Allen, Ryan, Ainsworth, Petruccelle, Brayshaw
2018: O'Neill, Foley, B Williams, Cameron
2019: pick 16 Kelly, Jamieson, Johnson late picks
2020: pick 18 Kelly, Edwards, Winder late picks
Slim pickings most years. Really only 3 players left who are valuable to our team/valuable assets. Bailey Williams is OK but if he left tomorrow we would be fine. Venables concussion and Brander being a miss hurt. That's effectively 6 years in a row without using a first round pick. Touch and go whether Chesser (2021) makes it from here too so that would be 7. Saving grace of 2021 is Hough was 31 and Bazzo 37, though Bazzo has only played 23 games. There were a few players from the 2014-2020 draft years that we held onto for longer than we should have also. I don't really understand keeping a Jackson Nelson for 100 games then dumping him when he's 26, or persisting with fringe players like Jones and Rotham for years on end. Petruccelle has played 90 games and is eligible for free agency. I know in 2022/23 in particular we had to play someone but a lot of the time it wasn't obvious what the plan was if we did have a full list available.
We really were and are a perfect storm of shitness which is why we are phasing in 18 and 19 year olds and phasing out 25 and 26 year olds.
Having a bunch of 20 year olds and a bunch of 30 year olds isn't ideal but it's not the worst thing in the world if they are good. Collingwood make it work with Daicos and Long playing in the middle with two men in their late 40s. Our issue has been we are in that situation but our 30 year olds keep getting injured or turning into pumpkins. You can't take two AA key position players out of a team that isn't very good to start with and expect there won't be an impact.
Ochre
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Which
A. We can still easily afford
B. As discussed ad nauseam in this thread and elsewhere, we can't spend the money on much else
Smash the soft cap and just pay the ****ing tax.
Miguel Sanchez
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Niz has been gone for a little while now.
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- May 5, 2006
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- #45
Couchpotato
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First post for me - long time lurker and fmr member of the now defunct EFH website. I come in peace (do I need to say that as a WCE Fan?) and overall have always enjoyed the rebuild and development phase of Eagle's list builds.
A lot of blame for our current issues really needs to go to Rawlings. Started as list manager for WCE in 2016 and left for North Melbourne in 2019 which encompasses the bulk of the above years. Seems the guy just can't spot a talented midfielder to save himself.
It's also fair to say his list management over at NM hasn't been overly popular since he's joined (pick 2 for Whitlock!)...
So - for all Clark's issues at the trade table, I do think our 2023 / 24 Draft hauls have seen a significant improvement on the draft front.
(...I'm definitely not Matt Clarke)
The Swans academy programme including pre selection training programmes, ongoing selection sessions and ongoing training and culling are all on a fee paying basis. The Swans gain revenue as a buisness.
Not sure if that’s the answer but I like the lateral thinking.
My contribution would be WCE funding research to identify any possible systemic disadvantages we face. Travel. Fixturing. Media. Concussion. Etc
There are so many questions that arise from even those few topics. I don’t doubt we do face systemic disadvantages but the vAFL won’t act on hunches.
The results may not be immediately available but we do need to find verifiable data to highlight any systemic disadvantages.
Pavlich traveled seven times further than Kade Simpson with almost same games (330-340). But AFL don’t consider it a problem to be be mitigated. Surely a quantifiable disadvantage?
Flying affects concussion. Does frequent flying increase the likelihood?
Ryan’s first game on Pendlebury’s home ground (his 250th? appearance) was 2018 GF. Any quantifiable disadvantage?
Given eg Coll play so many ‘blockbusters’ (all at the GF venue) in front of big crowds - is that a quantifiable advantage ?
(NB: all games outside the G can only attract max 60K - Perth - so teams can only get the ‘big crowd experience’ at the G. How many times do nonVics play there?)
Can the disproportionate influence of the vAFL media be quantified? Is it disadvantageous to nonVics? As mentioned elsewhere, so far this season 83% of RStar noms at Vic grounds. Does it affect tribunal decisions? Remember the Haw free kick imbalance - until raised by vAFL media. Etc etc
Flying affects concussion. Does frequent flying increase the likelihood?
Ryan’s first game on Pendlebury’s home ground (his 250th? appearance) was 2018 GF. Any quantifiable disadvantage?
Given eg Coll play so many ‘blockbusters’ (all at the GF venue) in front of big crowds - is that a quantifiable advantage ?
(NB: all games outside the G can only attract max 60K - Perth - so teams can only get the ‘big crowd experience’ at the G. How many times do nonVics play there?)
Can the disproportionate influence of the vAFL media be quantified? Is it disadvantageous to nonVics? As mentioned elsewhere, so far this season 83% of RStar noms at Vic grounds. Does it affect tribunal decisions? Remember the Haw free kick imbalance - until raised by vAFL media. Etc etc
And that, right there, is why we are failing.
What a cluster****. Five years of absolutely shizen recruiting.
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